Is High-End Gear Really that Superior…I doubt it

A Is a $50,000 amp better than a $1600 amp? Usually - but not always. Is it 30 times better? No. Is it 20% better? Maybe. Is that 20% gain worth $48,400 more? Only the individual can decide.

I heard some amazing gear that won't break the bank (Emerald Physics speakers and JOB225 to name a few)
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THANKS Mike…
As a former sound engineer, I know what you say. Some cheap studio Monitors can sound very good, however most of the time they are too clinical to use as home audio ( tiring to listen to )
I will not give up to improve my sound just needed to get some frustration out and re-group ….hopefully
 
GUYS,
I'm very happy to be here at Audio Shark
Now I know why this is supposed to be "The friendly Audio Forum" been in to many forums where some people behave with a very bad attitude and write harsh words.
not to mention "Fan Boys" that have no objective opinions what so ever…Like the Emperor New Clothing thing.
 
Nils,

I am so glad you are here. We learn from each other and I value all opinions.
 
THANKS Mike…
As a former sound engineer, I know what you say. Some cheap studio Monitors can sound very good, however most of the time they are too clinical to use as home audio ( tiring to listen to )
I will not give up to improve my sound just needed to get some frustration out and re-group ….hopefully

You're very welcome....hey....I bought some very expensive speakers one time (not to long ago!) that didn't live up to my expectations. We've all been there. Conversely, I've bought gear and had low expectations and I've been very pleased. My Oppo for example.
 
Is High-End Gear Really that Superior…I doubt it

I suggest you put that Dspeaker at work before calling an accoustician, and also to let proper time of burning on your gear (200 hours).

After many set ups, I wanted to work on the accoutic (treatments, pannels, etc.) but after pluging the Ds2.0 I did not found it necessary...
 
Re: Is High-End Gear Really that Superior…I doubt it

I suggest you put that Dspeaker at work before calling an accoustician, and also to let proper time of burning on your gear (200 hours).

After many set ups, I wanted to work on the accoutic (treatments, pannels, etc.) but after pluging the Ds2.0 I did not found it necessary...

Good advice, right on Jocelyn!
 
Re: Is High-End Gear Really that Superior…I doubt it

I suggest you put that Dspeaker at work before calling an accoustician, and also to let proper time of burning on your gear (200 hours).

After many set ups, I wanted to work on the accoutic (treatments, pannels, etc.) but after pluging the Ds2.0 I did not found it necessary...

Yeah…I heard the DSPeaker 2.0 is very good. but correct me if I'm wrong.
using the DSPeaker is like "Taking an Aspirin while your head is stuck in a wise"
I'm hoping that a combination of Fixing my room with some Bass traps and some wall / roof diffusers can cure the worst and then the DSPeaker will correct the rest ( still a bit worried about the + 500Hz)
 
Wow. Normally threads like these degenerate rather quickly. My hat goes off to you boys for keeping things lucid and upbeat!

To the Svensk in the room - You've got the right idea. Address the room acoustics first, then focus on ze toys once that process is done! The good news is that there are plenty of toys to play with - so don't get discouraged when something comes along that doesn't meet your expectations. It happens to us all at one point or another. :) Once everything falls into place, I'm sure you'll quickly begin to appreciate the merits of a 'high end' system. Good luck! :)
 
McChicken. Speaking for myself, you are always right to ask the question and be sceptical...open-minded but cautious. In my own travels, I started out with a boombox...when I got out of college, I got an integrated amp and borrowed my landlord's AR speakers. Despite the insistence of my local dealer about "it all starts with the source...get a better source", I found more benefit more benefit out of a $300 Audioquest IC from my boombox Direct-out into the Integrated...than a $500 CD player and an el cheapo free 'black and red' IC that came with the CD player. Years later, I 'upgraded' to a $50 Daewoo DVD player...and my new local dealer offered an 'upgrade' to a Unico or a Rega...and he still remembers 10 years later that HE stopped the shoot-out. Its not that the Daewoo was better (or even as good)...its just that it was not THAT much worse...for $50. THAT SAID, I have found certain pieces (all second hand/demo, btw) at the ultra high-end can be stunning (not all of them) and offer completely new information, new dynamics from my music...not just better here or there...but wholesale changes to music that take me very close to the event in many cases (mainly acoustic, well-miked, smaller ensembles)...and thrillingly close to much bigger events (organ, Hans Zimmer Dark Knight Soundtracks, and deep house electronic, etc) But it also delivers to me so much insight into the musical cues, nuances, etc...that a music collection becomes a place of discovery. It is truly wonderful, and I have my favorites among those that I have auditioned over the years. All my own two cents...but happy to PM if you wish. Finally, I have heard B&O equipment...and while I think it is very very good quality equipment...you ARE going to find it difficult to blow away what you have. I think you CAN...but I think you should also realize, you have bought well imho. Good luck. My 2 cents. Pls feel free to keep us posted.
 
McChicken. Speaking for myself, you are always right to ask the question and be sceptical...open-minded but cautious. In my own travels, I started out with a boombox...when I got out of college, I got an integrated amp and borrowed my landlord's AR speakers. Despite the insistence of my local dealer about "it all starts with the source...get a better source", I found more benefit more benefit out of a $300 Audioquest IC from my boombox Direct-out into the Integrated...than a $500 CD player and an el cheapo free 'black and red' IC that came with the CD player. Years later, I 'upgraded' to a $50 Daewoo DVD player...and my new local dealer offered an 'upgrade' to a Unico or a Rega...and he still remembers 10 years later that HE stopped the shoot-out. Its not that the Daewoo was better (or even as good)...its just that it was not THAT much worse...for $50. THAT SAID, I have found certain pieces (all second hand/demo, btw) at the ultra high-end can be stunning (not all of them) and offer completely new information, new dynamics from my music...not just better here or there...but wholesale changes to music that take me very close to the event in many cases (mainly acoustic, well-miked, smaller ensembles)...and thrillingly close to much bigger events (organ, Hans Zimmer Dark Knight Soundtracks, and deep house electronic, etc) But it also delivers to me so much insight into the musical cues, nuances, etc...that a music collection becomes a place of discovery. It is truly wonderful, and I have my favorites among those that I have auditioned over the years. All my own two cents...but happy to PM if you wish. Finally, I have heard B&O equipment...and while I think it is very very good quality equipment...you ARE going to find it difficult to blow away what you have. I think you CAN...but I think you should also realize, you have bought well imho. Good luck. My 2 cents. Pls feel free to keep us posted.

Wow, you just said what I didn't have the guts to say! :cool:
 
Hi McChicken,

I have some thoughts on what, in addition to what others have already suggested which I agree with (power and room acoustics) might explain what you are hearing with your setup compared to your BeoLab3 setup.

I would agree with you that the combination of the Gallo 3.5 speakers and the Job 225 amp are certainly capable of outperforming the BeoLab 3 setup by more than 10%.

The first thing I would do is insure that the Gallo speakers are properly set up in your room to give their best possible sound. I suspect that placement of the Gallo's are more critical than that of the Beolab3's and their sub. It would be best to do this after you have worked to better treat the acoustics of your room.

Second, I would suggest that one of the reasons that the Gallo and Job 225 combination are capable of out performing your BeoLab3 setup is that they are quite a bit higher in resolution than the Beolab 3's. The downside of higher resolution systems is that they tend to be more revealing and less forgiving of the source they are fed with. I own the Sonos in my home and I have fed the analog outputs of the Sonos system to my living room system which is an older Vandersteen 3A speaker driven by an Arcam integrated amplifier. Quite frankly, the sound from the Sonos analog outputs is not very good and quite a bit worse sounding than when I feed this same system from an old CD player that I have connected to it as well. On the other hand, when I listen to the Sonos from one of the Sonos self amplified speakers, the sound isn't t bad at all. I am fairly certain than the Vandersteen 3A speaker is far better than the little desktop Sonos speaker and far more capable which is why when I feed it from a good CD player, the sound on the Vandersteen system is significantly better (let's just say far more than 10% better). I doubt that any modification that you have done to the Sonos would significantly improve its sound.

Having said the above, the proof is in the pudding, so if you could possibly borrow a CD player - something like an OPPO 103 unit and perhaps some type of preamp and feed these to your Gallo based system, you may hear more of the type of sound you were hoping to hear compared to your Beolab 3 setup.

Anyway, hope this helps a little bit.

Arnie
 
A proper electrical foundation, the room and the quality of the recordings aside (which are all very important IMO), it all has to do with the law of diminishing returns. Is a $50,000 amp better than a $1600 amp? Usually - but not always. Is it 30 times better? No. Is it 20% better? Maybe. Is that 20% gain worth $48,400 more? Only the individual can decide.

I heard some really expensive amps, speakers and sources during my 9 month cross country journey auditioning gear - and some of it I wouldn't want at any price. I heard some amazing gear that won't break the bank (Emerald Physics speakers and JOB225 to name a few) that defy the laws of the price vs performance ratio. I heard SOTA/best of breed speakers (Magico S5) that weren't even the top of the line in the manufacturers impressive line up.

However, generally speaking (and I've noted there are many exceptions), the more expensive gear does sound better and only you the consumer can decide whether its worth that next jump. I would note that finding the sweet spot in a product line and spending the rest on music isn't a bad strategy at all.

I agree. When you factor in diminishing returns the field narrows. I will add that a lot of expensive gear including cables and such just are not worth the subtle if not questionable gain in improvement. It really boils down to how the item is built or executed. A well made properly executed piece of gear for a somewhat reasonable price can keep up with and even beat some of the more expensive gear. For example: I would gain about a 1% improvement if that, if I moved from a $600 Phonomena 2 to the $1600 model of the same make. In fact, the only gain to be had that could give a notable improvement would be to move to a further adjustable phono stage. (I saw one recently, but forget the make and model). However, it runs around $4 or $5K I think.
That brings it back around to the consumer, if he or she can afford it and thinks it will provide a high percentage of improvement then only that person can decide if the price warrants it and if it's worth the risk. The same applies to any piece from cables to tables to amps, speakers etc.
Another thing I would add is once the room is taken care of would be to focus the majority of money in one's budget on the parts that really make a difference to a point. Those would be speakers, amps and processors (CDPs, DACs). Everything else is a gamble at best in my book.
I don't believe that just because something cost more it is automatically better, many times it just cost more.
Just my opinion.
 
Why can't they select music people actually listen to?

I'd never listen to that stuff at home. Why do they play it at shows?
 
YES!

The high end gear really is superior. It reproduces the dynamic range, texture and tonality of the music.
 
Well for me I need to make my purchases count. My plan has always been. A capable amp and preamp. Nice all around speakers( the fact that I bought new speakers still amazes me because it's the first time I have done so) decent cables , don't need anything special. And I've always liked to put my money toward the source. I always buy new cartridges. I feel that's the most important piece in an analog setup.
And the acoustics and electric are super important and that's my next step.
After that I'm not so sure I'd like to spend a whole
Lot of money on speakers just to have a small improvement , or new amps. But I always feel that I need some different items , like a choice of 2 or 3 cartridges would be nice .
The more I go listen, the more I feel my system is good enough. Time to build the vinyl collection!!!
 
Why can't they select music people actually listen to?

I'd never listen to that stuff at home. Why do they play it at shows?

Gary, get a grip! :) ...In this case here they simply wanted to emphasis the female voice and the cello.
And them speakers did an excellent job in their realistic (live) rendition of them vocal and cello (real size and tone). ...Plasma tweeters. ...And 18" integrated subwoofers. :)
 
Well for me I need to make my purchases count. My plan has always been. A capable amp and preamp. Nice all around speakers( the fact that I bought new speakers still amazes me because it's the first time I have done so) decent cables , don't need anything special. And I've always liked to put my money toward the source. I always buy new cartridges. I feel that's the most important piece in an analog setup.
And the acoustics and electric are super important and that's my next step.
After that I'm not so sure I'd like to spend a whole
Lot of money on speakers just to have a small improvement , or new amps. But I always feel that I need some different items , like a choice of 2 or 3 cartridges would be nice .
The more I go listen, the more I feel my system is good enough. Time to build the vinyl collection!!!

Sounds very wise. 95% of my stuff is second hand/demo, and sometimes the prior component was several rungs down...like the Zanden digital...which replaced a $50 Daewoo DVD player I owned for close to a decade because I refused to go for innumerable incremental upgrades over and over again...particularly in digital. Feel very fortunate to have it now, and it remains my favorite digital of the many I have heard including some of the latest digital titans (TAD, Metronome Kalista Ref, DCS Vivaldi, Scarlatti, Stahl-Tek, Wadia, ARC, etc)...and it took 5 years to assemble the full 4-box digital with latest spec.
 
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