Interesting Articles on Cartridge Alignment
- Thread starter Myles B. Astor
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Dre_J
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bpw
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You rang?
I've been using the Feickert Adjust+ Pro software ever since it became available, and with quite a few installations and alignments under my belt I think I'm past the learning curve. There's definitely a learning curve to it.
There's not a lot to say except it helps you really get the azimuth right, being able to minimize phase error between channels rather than relying upon equalizing crosstalk between channels, the approach taken by the Fozgometer which is less accurate since the azimuth setting at which the crosstalk curves intersect is often different from the azimuth where the phase curves intersect.
A while ago I did a cartridge installation and alignment and struggled for what must have been hours trying all kinds of azimuth settings but not seeing the phase curves even come close to intersecting -- in fact the curves were more or less horizontal lines, which was bewildering to say the least. Long story short, I picked the best azimuth angle I could find but also advised the customer that there might be an issue with his cartridge which was brand new and cost several thousand dollars. I sent him the azimuth curves and data such as they were along with my comments that something seemed amiss, which he forwarded to the distributor and manufacturer.
The manufacturer's response was unexpected, which included, "To adjust azimuth take a strong magnifying glass (at least 10X or more) and look at the stylus exactly from the front. The triangle of the diamond stylus tip should point straight down. If a correction is necessary and the cartridge allows this procedure, exercise with extreme caution when inserting a piece of 0.8 mm diameter steel wire (sewing needle) into the small lateral drill hole in the round rod that presses the transducer onto the rubber damper (at the back of the cartridge). By turning the rod in minute increments (without loosening the tiny set screws at the cartridge) you also turn transducer and cantilever and with it the diamond tip."
It goes without saying that there was no way I was going to do any of that! It was the manufacturer's problem to fix, and trying to stick a sewing needle into a cartridge and probably turn it into an instant doorstop wasn't going to happen.
He wound up shipping the cartridge to the manufacturer, who upon inspection admitted the stylus had been made by a party whose results had been (sic) less than stellar, and he offered a couple of options to the customer to correct things. He got the cartridge back, and I'll soon be going back to do the alignment over again.
It's also worth noting that the cartridge needs a nose-down attitude in order to achieve the desired 92 degree SRA, which I tried to set using a USB microscope. With the rear of the arm (at the pivot) all the way up we were unable to achieve 92 degrees SRA. We're working on a couple of approaches to make that happen.
Welcome Brian!
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Myles B. Astor
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Thanks Brian. Did you have to add a special card to your computer to use the software?
Guess the other way is to by trial and error set the azimuth using say the Foz and then listening by ear. How much difference in adjustment do you find say using a counterweight between crosstalk and phase? Very slight rotational adjustment?
Guess the other way is to by trial and error set the azimuth using say the Foz and then listening by ear. How much difference in adjustment do you find say using a counterweight between crosstalk and phase? Very slight rotational adjustment?
I read Valin's article in TAS a few months back with great interest. So far all I have done is use the Feickert Protractor and my eyeball. The process looks quite involved and complex, but given the amount of money I have spent on TT, cartridge, Phono Pre, etc. I would be very happy to have a professional do the set up and allignment. I can see doing the azimuth with the Feickert software, but the SRA with a heavy duty microscope, etc. looks beyond me. Also, maybe having someone set the VTA for a few different thickness records - normal, dynaflex, 180g, 200g. It would mean coming to my home (or me hauling my VPI HRX Rim Drive to the person). I just don't know whether anyone performs these services (I'm in the SF Bay Area).
Larry
Larry
Dre_J
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You rang?
I've been using the Feickert Adjust+ Pro software ever since it became available, and with quite a few installations and alignments under my belt I think I'm past the learning curve. There's definitely a learning curve to it.
There's not a lot to say except it helps you really get the azimuth right, being able to minimize phase error between channels rather than relying upon equalizing crosstalk between channels, the approach taken by the Fozgometer which is less accurate since the azimuth setting at which the crosstalk curves intersect is often different from the azimuth where the phase curves intersect.
...snip...
It's also worth noting that the cartridge needs a nose-down attitude in order to achieve the desired 92 degree SRA, which I tried to set using a USB microscope. With the rear of the arm (at the pivot) all the way up we were unable to achieve 92 degrees SRA. We're working on a couple of approaches to make that happen.
Outside myself, Brian is the only person I know that has been using the software on a regular basis since the early days. I believe he started using it after I did but the timing is close enough for me to know he knows the function of the software as well as I do.
I will state that matching phase angle isn't always the better of the two but either choice (crosstalk done correctly or phase angle) yields more consistent results than without. What I'm saying is there is a small bit of wiggle room optimize between the two when they are close.
SRA adjustments must be taken with a little more care. Exactly 92 degrees isn't always the preference - sometimes it's more and sometimes it's less. I have my preference setting but I don't force it on anyone. Most of the time I show them the differences and make final decisions based on total system performance within an optimized window which includes listening.
bpw
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Myles, I use a USB SoundBlaster to interface the output of phono stage to the computer.
As for azimuth differences for crosstalk vs. phase response, it depends on the cartridge and probably varies by individual cartridge. It's usually within a few tenths of a degree, easily seen on the graphs.
Here is a good example. The phase response curves are on the top graph, the crosstalk curves on the bottom graph. The correct azimuth, indicated by the top graph, is -0.4 degrees (turned clockwise from horizontal when viewing the front of the cartridge and headshell), while the crosstalk curves indicate -0.8 degrees, which if used would result in almost 30 degrees of phase error. Some difference in crosstalk is much less perceptible than phase error.
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Dre_J
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Larry,
The approach that JV cataloged of me going through my setup routine may be different than others. I'm sure there are many that have developed methods along the way and long before the software tools I use were available. I've used many different tools over the years including several from my engineering profession. In fact, I use/used many different methods to verify the results of the Feickert Adjust+ software before deciding to use it as my default for a couple of tests/alignments including Azimuth.
I say all this to let you know that there are people in your area that are competent at turntable setup and may be able to further optimize your setup. I would try to communicate and ask questions about their process and if you are comfortable with it, ask if there are some customers that have used their services that you can visit or speak with. If that works out, then look into having them come by and do the setup. I do not recommend taking your HRX Rim drive to the person as a first option because an on-site setup will be more optimal with less disassembly and travel...
Dre
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Dre, thanks. I would appreciate any recommendations you have to get me started. You can PM me or I can PM you. I have had very good success with consultants helping me set up my digital ripping hardware and software and in that case, expertise and time efficiency were very well worth the cost involved.
Larry
Larry
puroagave
Active member
Myles, I use a USB SoundBlaster to interface the output of phono stage to the computer.
As for azimuth differences for crosstalk vs. phase response, it depends on the cartridge and probably varies by individual cartridge. It's usually within a few tenths of a degree, easily seen on the graphs.
Here is a good example. The phase response curves are on the top graph, the crosstalk curves on the bottom graph. The correct azimuth, indicated by the top graph, is -0.4 degrees (turned clockwise from horizontal when viewing the front of the cartridge and headshell), while the crosstalk curves indicate -0.8 degrees, which if used would result in almost 30 degrees of phase error. Some difference in crosstalk is much less perceptible than phase error.
Brian, how much of the difference between phase and azimuth is due to QC and acceptable mfrg tolerances and what would be considered a defective product? (per your previous example when azimuth and phase made parallel lines). I'm very interested in acquiring the feickert adjust+, not just for the obvious but to avoid getting hosed on a bad cart purchase, looking under the microscope doesn't seem to tell the whole story.
puroagave
Active member
Jay Nakamura's name comes up a lot for turntable set-up in LA/west coast circles. Randy at Optimal Enchantment can provide his contact info.
Thanks, Rob. Anyone in the SF Bay Area? Looks like Jay is in Santa Monica.
RedSectorA
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Larry contact Stirling Trayle at (707) 494-5482, Stirling is also in the Bay Area. He recently started a business optimizing sound systems, he has been in the industry for I think over 30 years. I met him a while back when he worked for VANA, he came to my house after the Salon Son Image (local audio show) to set up my VA The Music but also took some time to optimize my TT. In the little time he spend with my setup he did miracles, unfortunately he had to catch a plane so he could not stay any longer but I can't wait for the day he comes by again. Stirling is strongly recommended.
RedSectorA
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No problem Larry, I think you will like what he can do quite a bit. It's like a components upgrade without changing components :celebrate008_2:. Oh and by the way Stirling can do full system optimization, so he can improve not only your table but also components and speakers through placement and better coupling/isolation. He has a holistic approach about a sound system to give you exactly what you are looking for in sound. Interesting how he can voice speakers differently depending on what you are looking for, in my room he literally made the speakers disappear and brought them to a point where they were optimal to my ears. I think his help can be way less expensive than going through component change to find the holy grail. Let's just say I would have known him earlier I would have saved myself a lot of unnecessary expenses.
Keep us posted!
Sterling Trayle is at the house right now, starting his allignment process. Should be here all day. Will let you know how it works out. He will be doing both my Lyra Skala and Helikon Mono and also helping me with setting the VTA for both regular thickness records and 180g and 200 g audiophile pressings.
Larry
Larry
RedSectorA
New member
Stirling Trayle just left after being here for 9 hours. He set up my Lyra Skala on my VPI HRX TT. I thought the sound before was quite good, even though I only had alligned it with my Dr. Feickert protractor and set up the stylus pressure with my electronic scale. Little did I know what was in store for me with a really fine allignment (and also optimal VTA settings for regular weight and 180g and 200g records.) Greater clarity, separation, dynamics, lower noise, more cohesive sound. During the process he alligned and realligned my cartridge six times - every time different settings were changed, like azimuth, SRA, pressure etc. the cartridge needs to be realligned. For my ripping project, I will have the ideal settings for the last 2000+ records that I will rip during the coming year and I probably will go back and rerip a few hundred of the best and or most valuable of the records that I have already ripped (including most likely my complete collection of the 600 TAS Super Discs.
Stirling's services are not cheap, but only a small fraction of the cost of the cartridge plus TT (which cost as much as a new Toyota Corolla). Very highly recommended. He is a hidden gem and is moving from mostly doing work for professionals to expand to optimization of systems for the amateurs.
Thanks to Dan and Dre for the recommendation. Wish I had done this five years ago.
Larry
PS. The one unfortunate discovery was that since installing new motorized blinds, one window that was always covered has been open to the morning sun and has been shining on my spare tone arm and mono Helikon. Over the past two weeks, it has baked the coils - so I ruined a very nice mono cartridge, by sun baking. So I'll be looking for a new mono cartridge.
Stirling's services are not cheap, but only a small fraction of the cost of the cartridge plus TT (which cost as much as a new Toyota Corolla). Very highly recommended. He is a hidden gem and is moving from mostly doing work for professionals to expand to optimization of systems for the amateurs.
Thanks to Dan and Dre for the recommendation. Wish I had done this five years ago.
Larry
PS. The one unfortunate discovery was that since installing new motorized blinds, one window that was always covered has been open to the morning sun and has been shining on my spare tone arm and mono Helikon. Over the past two weeks, it has baked the coils - so I ruined a very nice mono cartridge, by sun baking. So I'll be looking for a new mono cartridge.