I am done with the dumpster diver board

ohbythebay

ohbythebay

New member
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
1,381
Location
Seattle Area
I have said it before but this time, done done done.

I have just spent the past several days in heated arguments (could not be called anything less) talking about

1) Quality cables
2) Cable break in
3) Equipment break in
4) Capacitor burn in

All of which are considered hokum by the narrow minded dumpster diving SOB's...God forbid they try something for themselves. So those of us who have heard this, first hand, are totally disrespected and can't even have a decent conversation about brands, etc. without the a$$holes coming out of the woodwork to tell us it is in our minds. There is no proof. Its just a way for the cable sellers to make money. No regard for what I HEAR...just non-supported stupid opinions.

I want to mail them a box of Rat Shack cables and some lamp cord for their speakers....UGGGGGG

It is not even so much the differing opinion, its the lack of respect toward those who have tried this. Who have experienced it. Jokes like "My toaster cord is almost broken in..hahahahah". Or I have worked on computers for 30 years and never had a cable needing break-in...DUH...so your computer uses audio cables now ?


Okay...I feel better....
 
And if you're interested in relaxing, I just started a new thread (exactly three minutes before this one of yours here) about a 'Fun Contest' where no experience in anything life/audio is necessary or required. ...It's just a fun guess contest game. :)
 
Rob - I get into debates like that all the time with my friend Jeff (Mr. VAC). We have a good back and forth and he eventually comes around to my way of thinking - but it requires him to experience things for himself. For example, he didn't believe his AC was dirty and argued with me for weeks. Then I brought my Entech AC line noise analyzer over to his house. He heard the noise and he immediately went on a hunt for best practices to clean up his AC. Same with digital. He argued with me and argued with me that his Oppo 83 was better than anything. Then a friend brought over his Esoteric and Jeff was floored. Next up was a Turntable. He loved it.

You can't argue, you have to educate through experimentation and experience.
 
MDP said:
Rob, as my favorite comedian Ron White says "You can't fix stupid" !!!!
Click to expand...

I love it....!!!!

I love this quote by Albert Einstein also

Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted

The only proof I need is my own sense...Thanks for letting me vent guys...

@Bob..I don't mind differing opinions and learning...but I hate small closed minds..Like Mark said "you can't fight stupid".
 
Rob, I have found that the best way to not have to deal with all that stuff about cables and such is to not even reply to any thread of that order, period. (I go further by not even reading them). I do not discuss cables and such anymore with anyone, no matter how friendly they are and stopped years ago. (Personally I think the subject should be banned because it is just like religion and politics in my opinion).
I have my own beliefs regarding that stuff and they are set in concrete. (I know how physics works and I'm sticking with universal laws). I never state what cables I use either, so in anyone's mind I could be using anything. Perhaps you would be well served or have some relief in taking the same path? Just a suggestion.
By the by, I don't even venture over to the place you describe anymore because it's that way about everything over there now. It's just a big joke and it helps to look at it that way.
~Eric
PS. Using a specific brand of cable or type of cable does not make one stupid or inteligent whether it be lamp cord or $10K per inch cables or pieces of string.
 
The forum doesn't matter, I am just tired of belong to a place that seems to argue just for arguments sake. On any topic, not just cables.

As to staying away from the topic, yes, good advice - in practice..BUt I am too used to helping people and sharing experience. And helping others share theirs and not get yelled down. If you don't believe, I respect that. But don't ever tell me I am wrong or its all in my mind. You can say you never heard a difference and I can say I have. But neither one needs to be wrong. That's the problem there. They always want someone to be WRONG.
 
ohbythebay said:
I have said it before but this time, done done done.

I have just spent the past several days in heated arguments (could not be called anything less) talking about

1) Quality cables
2) Cable break in
3) Equipment break in
4) Capacitor burn in

All of which are considered hokum by the narrow minded dumpster diving SOB's...God forbid they try something for themselves. So those of us who have heard this, first hand, are totally disrespected and can't even have a decent conversation about brands, etc. without the a$$holes coming out of the woodwork to tell us it is in our minds. There is no proof. Its just a way for the cable sellers to make money. No regard for what I HEAR...just non-supported stupid opinions.

I want to mail them a box of Rat Shack cables and some lamp cord for their speakers....UGGGGGG

It is not even so much the differing opinion, its the lack of respect toward those who have tried this. Who have experienced it. Jokes like "My toaster cord is almost broken in..hahahahah". Or I have worked on computers for 30 years and never had a cable needing break-in...DUH...so your computer uses audio cables now ?


Okay...I feel better....
Click to expand...

You forget they back up their talk with "science" and that they can "measure" that you "hear exactly the same thing."

I get the same thing with a bunch of knuckle dragging flat-earth-society-types on another site, however this is mostly because 99% of them are poor and just have to rip on things they can't afford, or justify why they are better even though they cannot afford it.

Sounds elitist, whatever. Unfortunately, quality does cost money. And some of us, at least, worked our asses off to get to where we are and this hobby is what we enjoy. So be it.

I always bring them to the wine analogy then (which just completely baffles them): "so then all 13.4% alcohol wine must taste the same then... so this 2 buck chuck is the same as a $200 bottle - man have I had the wool over my eyes for a long time now!"
 
-E- said:
You forget they back up their talk with "science" and that they can "measure" that you "hear exactly the same thing."

I get the same thing with a bunch of knuckle dragging flat-earth-society-types on another site, however this is mostly because 99% of them are poor and just have to rip on things they can't afford, or justify why they are better even though they cannot afford it.

Sounds elitist, whatever. Unfortunately, quality does cost money. And some of us, at least, worked our asses off to get to where we are and this hobby is what we enjoy. So be it.

I always bring them to the wine analogy then (which just completely baffles them): "so then all 13.4% alcohol wine must taste the same then... so this 2 buck chuck is the same as a $200 bottle - man have I had the wool over my eyes for a long time now!"
Click to expand...

LOL...I hear you...and Starbucks taste the same as Seattles best which taste the same as McDonald...its all coffee, right ?
 
ohbythebay said:
The forum doesn't matter, I am just tired of belong to a place that seems to argue just for arguments sake. On any topic, not just cables.

As to staying away from the topic, yes, good advice - in practice..BUt I am too used to helping people and sharing experience. And helping others share theirs and not get yelled down. If you don't believe, I respect that. But don't ever tell me I am wrong or its all in my mind. You can say you never heard a difference and I can say I have. But neither one needs to be wrong. That's the problem there. They always want someone to be WRONG.
Click to expand...

Rob, perhaps these people do not want help from anyone. If someone asks for help then they are more receptive then if "help" is just offered out of thin air. Also there are many who lay bait for this very thing. They post like they need help, but they really want to have a fight and that's the whole idea.
If you want t help someone I would recommend doing so through PM perhaps. That way 1) you won't have a hundred people ganging up on you and 2) you'll know the poster's intentions either by their reply to you or if they do not reply at all.
There are a lot of people on many forums that just want to try to stroke their egos and tell others they are right so they can feel superior to everyone else.
In my view it isn't worth it man. This is a solitary hobby at it's core. For me, it's all about the music. Nobody else has ever seen or heard my systems, ever. Hardly anyone is interested in any aspect of this hobby in my experience. Even I'm not interested in the gear except if replacement is needed. Other than that I could care less what is out there. At the end of the day it's about enjoying music on what I got.

~Eric
 
-E- said:
You forget they back up their talk with "science" and that they can "measure" that you "hear exactly the same thing."

I get the same thing with a bunch of knuckle dragging flat-earth-society-types on another site, however this is mostly because 99% of them are poor and just have to rip on things they can't afford, or justify why they are better even though they cannot afford it.

Sounds elitist, whatever. Unfortunately, quality does cost money. And some of us, at least, worked our asses off to get to where we are and this hobby is what we enjoy. So be it.

I always bring them to the wine analogy then (which just completely baffles them): "so then all 13.4% alcohol wine must taste the same then... so this 2 buck chuck is the same as a $200 bottle - man have I had the wool over my eyes for a long time now!"
Click to expand...

I am poor and do not really belong here on AS, but I'll say this. Hey, I don't have the means to readily support this hobby on short notice like everyone else here and I'm not interested in gear like many others, but I don't rip on gear I have not heard, used or experienced just because I can't afford it. Music is music and the gear doesn't matter if one uses what one can and/or gets what one can afford.
 
The rise of the e-commerce world and the fading of brick and mortar stores facilitates these kinds of theoretical debates of which there are no definitive solutions among hobbyists. The world wide web brings us together in one way, yet isolates us in others...... There was a time that this kind of discussion could have a degree of closure, when hobbyists could haul their components of cables, or whatever down to a local hi fi shop, and make direct comparisons with each other to reference quality gear in a known environment. When amplifier or speaker A and B were trialed, there were definite opinions, observations, and experiences formed, One was preferred over the other, one might have been noticeably better than the other, or a piece may have not performed up to its price tag. There was no theoretical " it could be due to " direct drive motors, linear tracking tone arms, metal dome tweeters, silver wire, tubes, ribbons...or whatever the controversial component or part was. There was closure in these comparisons. Now that did not mean everyone preferred the same thing, or that there was consensus, but there was direct experience.

Now audio boards and the Internet allow for all sorts of arguments that can never be directly resolved by the participants who may be hours away, thousands of miles away, or even separated by continents. Some are not interested in hearing your experiences or thoughts, but rather want a sounding board for them to tell you how much smarter and more experienced they are than you. Some people just like to argue, some people are just curmudgeons. Some people are sensitive and easily offended. Others do not care for American history and the plight of the Mike the headless chicken. Oh wait that is another story.

Many people use deductive reasoning to sort through the myriad of possibilities that is available to them for audio. Not everyone wants to experience everything, not everyone has the time and resources to sort through it all. Some do not have the will, and just want to listen to music that is good enough. even though there are difficult people at "the other site" that place has offered plenty of positive things to the audio hobbyist world wide. Let us not forget where you went to get advice, tips, and knowledge for working on your Yamaha. There are plenty of bright and experienced people there who help a lot of people who want to refurbish their gear, or find some jewels through non traditional means for enjoying audio...even those on very tight budgets. There is value there, even though not everyone is the kindest and gentlest soul. Kind of a reflection of the world isn't it?

While you may no longer choose to visit there, that does not mean the site is not valuable to others. I still visit Audio Asylum though I no longer routinely post there. when sites get to big, it attracts all kinds of people...such as AA and that other site has. But I still find valuable information there. One thing I have come to know is this. You will never learn more about audio than you already know if you surround yourself with people who believe only what you do. When others do audio differently than you, and have a philosophically different approach, then will you find alternative pathways or a reinforcement in what you believe is correct. There are many pathways to Audio Nirvana.

Here is an interesting thought about cables. I tend to believe that good quality IC's and speaker wires are needed for a system. Yet I have a friend who DIY's a beautiful tri amped speaker system, using good quality amplification and vintage turntables. The CD pieces were of very modest cost, but still sounded good. Yet he wires this whole system up with some Monster Cable Studio 500 interconnects and Woods outdoor lighting low voltage wire for speaker wire. This system sounds very very nice. I take the same IC's and speaker wire to my house, install it and the system sounds like crap. There are no absolutes in the world of wire...which is what makes it such a volatile subject.

But every site has its sensitivities, and sensitive members. Heck my Mike the Headless Chicken thread got closed in 2 hours here....and what's wrong with a bit of frivolity in the General Off Topic Forum? But I don't get my tail in a curl, its just best to go with the cultural flow......

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Yep, I completely agree, I found this forum on the recommendation if a very nice pig because we both found ourselves feeling the same way as you. Sadly the other forum as become a meeting place for the lowest common denominator, guys who want the cheapest possible route and feel entitled to a top class system for peanuts. I'm with you, experience trumps internet theory every time in my book, funny thing is when you ask these internet scientist what experience they have with the given topic they will never answer. They will bombard you with endless BS to avoid admitting they have never actually tried the idea they are insisting doesn't work...sad really.

I think the better path is to join a forum where people are open to ideas and have an interest in learning something new. You could read a thousand cable threads or take 10 minutes and try some for yourself and get the answer you are looking for, of course it is cheaper to do nothing and simply repeat internet theory.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top