How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Network

Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

The KISS principle is always best to follow. I do not want my digital signal going through my network. Routers, switches, etc., etc. can damage the digital signal more than any particular output; ethernet, USB, optical, etc. I connect straight out of my server machine to my DAC using USB since this is the best way of getting DSD512 native to my DAC. It has always worked 100%. I do not recall ever having an issue getting my signal to my DAC and therefore to my pre-amp.

It amazes me how much effort people who love streaming networks put into their modems, routers, switches, ethernet cables, etc., when they have no control over the thousands of miles the signal travels through, hundreds of routers and switches, etc., that are far worse than anything in their home. How much of a difference could that last steps within their home actually affect their final signal?
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

Randy Myers said:
The KISS principle is always best to follow. I do not want my digital signal going through my network. Routers, switches, etc., etc. can damage the digital signal more than any particular output; ethernet, USB, optical, etc. I connect straight out of my server machine to my DAC using USB since this is the best way of getting DSD512 native to my DAC. It has always worked 100%. I do not recall ever having an issue getting my signal to my DAC and therefore to my pre-amp.

It amazes me how much effort people who love streaming networks put into their modems, routers, switches, ethernet cables, etc., when they have no control over the thousands of miles the signal travels through, hundreds of routers and switches, etc., that are far worse than anything in their home. How much of a difference could that last steps within their home actually affect their final signal?
Click to expand...

Some people still make the same argument for power cables.
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

mep said:
Some people still make the same argument for power cables.
Click to expand...

Ok, I can see that point. However, with power it is quite different. Your power grid is relatively local vs streaming servers located all over the world and many times the digital file may be traveling from a different continent even. Therefore, the digital hops and associated routers and switches are far more and far less controlled :).

I put forth the proposition that your power is probably cleaner and/or has far less points of possible corruption so a power cable should influence the signal much more so than an Ethernet cable :).
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

mep said:
What I highlighted is what I would eliminate. All of those conversions are weak links in the chain prone to breaking down and decreasing your network reliability.
Click to expand...

How do you use a system with storage and streaming and internet without a switch?

As for the ethernet to USB.

USB or Fiber to PlayBack Designs Stream-IF is the only option to deliver a signal that is 2 or 4 times DSD. It won't accept ethernet for that type of upsampling.

From the Stream IF to the PlayBack Designs MPS5 is Coax or fiber.
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

How many ethernet ports do you need Brad?
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

Well, based on my understanding from the manufacturers, the SonicTransporter, NAS and ethernet feed all connect to a switch.
So, 2 pieces connect to the the switch that provides the internet for streaming downloads and them to communicate.
Other equipment is with other forms of wire or glass.

Is that what you are asking?
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

I think this stuff is really complicated to me. In my current situation the internet is coming inside the house via glass fiber converted inside a Fritzbox to an ethernet cable. Then it goes to the bonn linn switch with galvanic separation. Hooking one long cable from my fritzbox, which is not made for audio, or with the bonn linn switch in between, I totally don’t understand how the ones and zero’s come from these things and what sounds better.

On the one hand: less is more so a switch cannot improve sound.
On the other hand, there are so many computers needed to get a signal from those Qobuz servers that it might be that the last part, the switch is made audiophilic.

I never understanded this part of streaming.
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

brad225 said:
MEP, Randy
Any feedback on my situation?
Click to expand...
Not Mep or Randy, but IME the switch is not the problem; the other items highlighted by Mep are likely superfluous/unneeded. The KISS principle applies.
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

brad225 said:
MEP, Randy
Any feedback on my situation?
Click to expand...

It appears that you could get by with a 4 port router and not need a switch unless I'm missing something.
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

I don’t have a router anywhere wired in my system.

Coaxial cable comes directly from the fiber optic box on the outside of the house. It is converted using an Action-Tec product to ethernet. That feeds a six port switch.
Only three of the ports are used.
The only direct connection to the router is the Wi-Fi signal that comes to my iPad.
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

brad225 said:
MEP, Randy
Any feedback on my situation?
Click to expand...

Brad,

What exactly is the problem you're having? Can you describe in greater detail the "what and when" with the issue when it presents itself?

Also can you create a word diagram with all the various pieces/parts of your "network" something like this: e.g., outside ISP fiber demarc >> coax cable >> actiontec fiber to ethernet converter >> ethernet cable >> switch >> yada yada yada all the way to your source gear...
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

Mike, I generally, don't have any issue. MEP had asked how many things were plugged into the switch.

The times I have had an issue is when my equipment has been shutoff and disconnected for an extensive time. Such as a long time out of town and I don't want to leave things subject to power surge of some type. After a long time some equipment needs to be reacquainted with other pieces as they are gone from memory.

I have needed to reboot my iPad from time to time that receives its WIFI signal from the router that feeds everything in the house except my listening room.

We are at the end of the fiber run in a growing area and at times I think there are glitches in the signal. At least that is what we are told when a service tech is here to check things out.

My system is LNB ( fiber optic box on outside of house ) > Coax feeding listening room > Actiontec ( coax to ethernet ) > Netgate Switch ( modified and custom power supply/DC blocker ) > Switch connects to Synology NAS & Small Green Computer ( Sonictransporter i9 ) > Ethernet from SGC i9 to Ultrarendu > USB to PlaybackDesigns StreamIF > Fiber to PlaybackDesigns MPS5.

Home made XLR cables from Dac to Pre Amp.
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

brad225 said:
The times I have had an issue is when my equipment has been shutoff and disconnected for an extensive time. Such as a long time out of town and I don't want to leave things subject to power surge of some type. After a long time some equipment needs to be reacquainted with other pieces as they are gone from memory.
Click to expand...


Brad, it would seem to me that if you're not having recurring and intermittent connectivity issues whilst playing music, but simply need to reboot your iPad every so often (who doesn't have to that anyway?) to keep things running smoothly when your at home for an extended period, then perhaps the solution is quite simple.

When you step away for vacation or other extended periods and decide to power off/unplug things to save them from power spikes, etc. then follow this simple sequence:

1. Power off the far end source piece of gear first per its mfg. recommendation (including any requisite time to soft-shut-down completely, hard toggle switch to off then unplug from mains power) and then work upstream toward your ISP demarc doing the same for each piece of gear. E.g., Soft power down then complete power off/unplug as you work upstream.

-then-

2. Upon returning home, power up the most upstream device (closest to ISP demarc), let it load its brain and connect to the network, watch for connectivity LED's (give it 5 minutes if needed), then move to the next downstream piece of gear and do the same...power on, wait a few minutes for it to load/connect, watch for LED's, and then do the next downstream piece. Rinse and repeat until you land at your source gear.

Too often I see folks power everything up at once or if they do use a sequence as illustrated above, don't give things enough time to, "come online" and when you have device A, B, C, D, E and F to content with and since "audio devices" are NOT robust pieces of networking computer equipment, often times device C will come up before device A or B and then device F or E comes up and can't see device A or B because they're STILL not online.

Try to implement a regimented power-off and power-on sequence and let us know how that works out for you.


Kind Regards,

Mike
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

Brad

Interesting setup. I've never seen it done that way.
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

brad225 said:
Hi Jack,

This is the MoCa that I use.
Coax in Ethernet out no router in my wired system.
There may be better models of this type of device though.

View attachment 32366
Click to expand...

Brad, FYI; one thing I have found if your cable modem is not compatible with your internet provider it can impact DOCSIS, channel bonding,etc.. or just not work to its best.
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

----------------------------------------------------------
1. Power off the far end source piece of gear first per its mfg. recommendation (including any requisite time to soft-shut-down completely, hard toggle switch to off then unplug from mains power) and then work upstream toward your ISP demarc doing the same for each piece of gear. E.g., Soft power down then complete power off/unplug as you work upstream.

-then-

2. Upon returning home, power up the most upstream device (closest to ISP demarc), let it load its brain and connect to the network, watch for connectivity LED's (give it 5 minutes if needed), then move to the next downstream piece of gear and do the same...power on, wait a few minutes for it to load/connect, watch for LED's, and then do the next downstream piece. Rinse and repeat until you land at your source gear.



Try to implement a regimented power-off and power-on sequence and let us know how that works out for you.

Mike[/QUOTE]
--------------------------------------------------------


Thanks that's a good suggestion Mike. I never really thought about what each piece is seeing in an organized process.

I'm sure I have generally sat, down and turned off the SGC and UltraRendu first as they are accessed by iPad.
Then, other front end equipment including ISP, working my way around the room unplugging subs, main speakers and amps.

No serious shutdown scheduled until June short of a major thunder storm that can happen anytime now in the spring.

----------

CPP, as far as the modem, it has worked seamlessly for 10 years to the best of my knowledge. I have unplugged it when i shutdown long term but it immediately send a signal to the switch when connected and powered up.

I purchased this from our HT guy that always uses them, when needed, on the Verizon/Frontier fiber systems. I also realize that doesn't mean it is the perfect piece but, he is very quality conscious with his work.

------
Thinking about what all of you have said. I guess a non-WIFI router would potentially eliminate one piece of equipment.
There would be the same process, but, in one box. This would eliminate one cable and two connections.
That's something to think about.

Thanks for the suggestions.
 
Re: How to Troubleshoot a High-End Audio Ethernet Netwok

brad225 said:
----------------------------------------------------------
1. Power off the far end source piece of gear first per its mfg. recommendation (including any requisite time to soft-shut-down completely, hard toggle switch to off then unplug from mains power) and then work upstream toward your ISP demarc doing the same for each piece of gear. E.g., Soft power down then complete power off/unplug as you work upstream.

-then-

2. Upon returning home, power up the most upstream device (closest to ISP demarc), let it load its brain and connect to the network, watch for connectivity LED's (give it 5 minutes if needed), then move to the next downstream piece of gear and do the same...power on, wait a few minutes for it to load/connect, watch for LED's, and then do the next downstream piece. Rinse and repeat until you land at your source gear.



Try to implement a regimented power-off and power-on sequence and let us know how that works out for you.

Mike
Click to expand...
--------------------------------------------------------


Thanks that's a good suggestion Mike. I never really thought about what each piece is seeing in an organized process.

I'm sure I have generally sat, down and turned off the SGC and UltraRendu first as they are accessed by iPad.
Then, other front end equipment including ISP, working my way around the room unplugging subs, main speakers and amps.

No serious shutdown scheduled until June short of a major thunder storm that can happen anytime now in the spring.

----------

CPP, as far as the modem, it has worked seamlessly for 10 years to the best of my knowledge. I have unplugged it when i shutdown long term but it immediately send a signal to the switch when connected and powered up.

I purchased this from our HT guy that always uses them, when needed, on the Verizon/Frontier fiber systems. I also realize that doesn't mean it is the perfect piece but, he is very quality conscious with his work.

------
Thinking about what all of you have said. I guess a non-WIFI router would potentially eliminate one piece of equipment.
There would be the same process, but, in one box. This would eliminate one cable and two connections.
That's something to think about.

Thanks for the suggestions.[/QUOTE]


That's all you can ask for from a modem.:peace:
 
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