How do you judge another's credentials?

[mep]

I am with TOOBs on this one. Strikes me as shallow and uninformed.

I personally get access to listen to gear FAAAR in excess of anything I would ever own, so owning and knowing can have ZERO relationship whatsoever. And before you mention it, i am not talking about show conditions, I am talking about manufactueres dedicated demo rooms that they spend corporate kinda money optimizing…I also have pals with wickedly expensive gear.

Bold statement to make. Maybe you should have said owning and thinking or owning and believing but you are still apples and hubcaps away from the point toobs was trying to make. You at least are trying to make a case for hearing expensive gear at a friend's house or going to manufacturer's factories and listening to their gear.

 

[wisnon]

I did and am not attacking you. It seems you did understand.

My reply was to Chris regarding why Toobs would feel the way he does.

I know what you are trying to get at, but I still dont think it merits 5 pages of discussion.

And what is this MY thread comment about? Threads are not off limit.

 

[mep]

I did and am not attacking you. It seems you did understand.

My reply was to Chris regarding why Toobs would feel the way he does.

I know what you are trying to get at, but I still dont think it merits 5 pages of discussion.

And what is this MY thread comment about? Threads are not off limit.

Wisnon-Who are you addressing with your last post above?

 

[wisnon]

Bold statement to make. Maybe you should have said owning and thinking or owning and believing but you are still apples and hubcaps away from the point toobs was trying to make. You at least are trying to make a case for hearing expensive gear at a friend's house or going to manufacturer's factories and listening to their gear.

Typo, I meant owning and knowing can (in some cases) have zero relationship to each other. Movie stars may have great gear at home for decoration….we know the drill.
My undersatning is that Toobs is making a similar point in that gear ownership is not a definitive requirement for knowing good sound.
iSquirrel in Oz had a $400k system and downsized after a divorce to not much and is rebuilding again…a good case in point.

Many in the Audio industry dont choose to own much substantial as they are surrounded by this stuff everyday. Other insiders have access to gear on loan with just a phone call as they have the movers and shakers on speed dial. I have seen this with mine own eyes.

Finally, as I said, I have some good contacts with top quality gear that I can get to sample from time to time.

 

[wisnon]

Wisnon-Who are you addressing with your last post above?

Kevin!

Not sure where he got any attacking from, as this stuff is not that serious and its all supposed to be enjoyable.

 

[bzr]

I am with TOOBs on this one. Strikes me as shallow and uninformed.

I personally get access to listen to gear FAAAR in excess of anything I would ever own, so owning and knowing can have ZERO relationship whatsoever. And before you mention it, i am not talking about show conditions, I am talking about manufactueres dedicated demo rooms that they spend corporate kinda money optimizing…I also have pals with wickedly expensive gear.

I did and am not attacking you. It seems you did understand.

My reply was to Chris regarding why Toobs would feel the way he does.

I know what you are trying to get at, but I still dont think it merits 5 pages of discussion.

And what is this MY thread comment about? Threads are not off limit.

Kevin!

Not sure where he got any attacking from, as this stuff is not that serious and its all supposed to be enjoyable.

I started the thread Norman, it's the simple things one needs to pay attention to, hence my reply with a dose of reality.

 

[Mike]

I've stayed away from this thread as it seems like a bit of a powder keg.

That being said, I don't look at the signatures - ever - because I'm using Tapatalk 99% of the time and you can't see someone's signature without effort.

What gear a person owns/owned has no baring on how I value their opinion. I instead look at their comments, what hear they've heard and where. All opinions are valid provided they have the real experience to back it up and not "Pass only makes good preamps", yet hasn't heard the XS preamp.

I also take some opinions with a grain of salt. There are some mad people who don't seem to like any gear.

But if we look at things objectively, those who own some top tier gears can offer more of a realistic "living with" comparison to other top tier gears. For example, someone with Soulution gear can offer a more "lived with" experience to say Constellation. But conversely, they may have little "lived with" experience with more budgeted priced gears like Cambridge vs NAD.


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[puroagave]

I've been thinking about the HP influence quite a bit since he has passed. I'm 40 and have been into the high end since I have been out of school and have been able to afford it. In other words, in the internet era only. HP has never been a relevant part of my audio world. Ever. I've ebay'd some early TAS and have been amazed at what they packed into those journals.


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pre and post internet is like a demarcation line of when you entered the hobby. prior to the internet, the three or four most influential sources for info were TAS, stereophile (esp before JA took over), your local audio club and dealers. from a purely journalistic point of view I don't believe we'll ever see the likes of the 'old' TAS. As Myles said, their best years were the early ones, for me TAS died around the mid-90s. As for the "superdiscs" they were like the key to the mystery. Without them you couldn't nearly appreciate HP or TAS and truly understand what he was writing about. by extension you had to own a turntable to hear them or it all became moot (to address rbbert's comment).

so who's got the credentials? Myles is from the TAS school as a writer (it shows), not trying to stroke his ego but every once in a while he's got some new revelation, insight or new discovery to share which reminds me of the old TAS and is why i tune into forums like these. the DSD vs PCM... (vs tape) thread has me 'glued to the set' so to speak and I don't do R2R but love a well informed POV and look forward to his future installments.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

I've stayed away from this thread as it seems like a bit of a powder keg.

That being said, I don't look at the signatures - ever - because I'm using Tapatalk 99% of the time and you can't see someone's signature without effort.

What gear a person owns/owned has no baring on how I value their opinion. I instead look at their comments, what hear they've heard and where. All opinions are valid provided they have the real experience to back it up and not "Pass only makes good preamps", yet hasn't heard the XS preamp.

I also take some opinions with a grain of salt. There are some mad people who don't seem to like any gear.

But if we look at things objectively, those who own some top tier gears can offer more of a realistic "living with" comparison to other top tier gears. For example, someone with Soulution gear can offer a more "lived with" experience to say Constellation. But conversely, they may have little "lived with" experience with more budgeted priced gears like Cambridge vs NAD.


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I always thought that this TOS from the Tape Project forum was a good guideline:

"Secondly, we require that any information offered about an experience be firsthand, that is, no "I heard that some guys/my friend/my enemy/my mom tried that and hated/loved it" posts. Only posts that are based upon first hand experience are truly useful in the Internet environment. If someone you respect told you of their experience and you are dying to share it, ask that person to post their first hand experience here themself."

 

[Mike]

I always thought that this TOS from the Tape Project forum was a good guideline:

"Secondly, we require that any information offered about an experience be firsthand, that is, no "I heard that some guys/my friend/my enemy/my mom tried that and hated/loved it" posts. Only posts that are based upon first hand experience are truly useful in the Internet environment. If someone you respect told you of their experience and you are dying to share it, ask that person to post their first hand experience here themself."

Good quote.


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[rbbert]

My turntable was still my primary source until several years after I stopped reading TAS

Don't forget some of the other very useful print mags from the pre-Internet days, like Listener, Fi, Ultimate Audio, etc.

 

[bzr]

I've stayed away from this thread as it seems like a bit of a powder keg.

That being said, I don't look at the signatures - ever - because I'm using Tapatalk 99% of the time and you can't see someone's signature without effort.

What gear a person owns/owned has no baring on how I value their opinion. I instead look at their comments, what hear they've heard and where. All opinions are valid provided they have the real experience to back it up and not "Pass only makes good preamps", yet hasn't heard the XS preamp.

I also take some opinions with a grain of salt. There are some mad people who don't seem to like any gear.

But if we look at things objectively, those who own some top tier gears can offer more of a realistic "living with" comparison to other top tier gears. For example, someone with Soulution gear can offer a more "lived with" experience to say Constellation. But conversely, they may have little "lived with" experience with more budgeted priced gears like Cambridge vs NAD.


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Mike, of all the sites that could do a topic like this, the "shark" is it! On no other site that I have been to could you hope to maintain a modicum of decency for the same.
My intention was actually a look into oneself for a similar peculiarity as in my first post but it seems everyone just can't seem to see past the word credentials & think of it as the key to the subject. But hey if that is where we are going with it then i certainly don't relate to people that need to relate to their notes about what someone told them or what someone else heard for 5 -60 mins & all of a sudden they are an endless mine of knowledge. The reviewers that come here are in a very enviable position as far as knowledge/signature/voicing/tone of said gear etc. I can also understand their reluctance to comment based on prior feedback. Over the months you learn who the shills are & who are real & the thing i like about the shark is that 99% of it's members are genuine & very knowledgeable.

 

[wisnon]

When I am invited to listening session, its a whole evening affair. With Dartzeel, we listened for over 6 hours, with CH 3 hours and long chat after, with Goldmund 2 hours (after work), with Voxativ 90 mins, and all this with MY music mostly. These are just some and I have standing invitations to others but am short of time. ..but will make time for the new Stenheim refs.

I also discuss indepth differences with these guys and other manufactures and have great feedback from other industry insiders, like a 90 minute chat session with the owner of Rowen. I am not just talking off my head…like some here do after blindly mixing and matching gear.

Some people here dont even understand the industry, so I dont waste my time trying to explain….

 

[bzr]

obviously.....

 

[wisnon]

Like Toobs, I am out! Point made.

So long….

 

[CDLehner]

Man...this thread just makes me SMH :what:

I just don't understand, why people are getting sooo worked-up; and seem to have such rigid rules, about what's supposed to be a fun hobby.

Like, I'm OK with second-hand accounts. I can't get out, to hear all the gear I'm interested in; so just like restaurants, or movies...if I have a "buddy", and we seem to see eye-to-eye, and share tastes...I'll take his opinion on something. Same goes for reviewers...same goes for forum members.

I mean seriously...I don't care if you've heard 800 watt, class-D monoblocks; if you have a 5-watt SET, in your own system...I'm going to have to take your opinion, on said monoblocks, with a grain of salt; because obviously you don't roll like that. And when someone...like the OP...says, he's looking in the signature; my goodness...everyone is taking that sooo literally.

I mean, if you say "oh, I heard the new NV 800; and I thought it was a little hard and edgy"; and again...I see you lean toward small-watt, sweet and sticky tubes...I might pause. But I'm not going to "dismiss" you...or call you out, or call you names

And if you elaborate "oh, I may be a SET guy now...but I was a big fan of the NV 300; that's why I was really interested to see what they have done with the new one. But IMO, it lost some magic"; OK...position e x p a n d e d.

People...it's just audio; and guys who are supposed to love audio, and therefore...talking about audio. My goodness; and people who are like "I'm out"...really? A) it upsets you that much, and b) you have to tell everyone...not only am I going to stop reading and posting silently; but I want you guys to know how much this thread pisses me off, and I'm leaving on high-moral grounds?

 

[Kt77]

I very seldom take the time to study someone's added system, as in some cases it changes to rapidly for me to get a bearing on how they hear or better yet purchase to me what seems blind.

Being the olde school sort, and someone whom has worked in the audio retail field, I believe in talking to said person before me, one on one, or via email or phone call exchanges, as it gives me a clearer concept on their set priorities - is it merely the endless pursuit for perfection? When it clearly doesn't exit, or is it for status amongst their friends/peers/audio community?, or is it for the sake of obtaining better Music Fidelity within their homes?.

I've maybe all of 12 friends whom are all music lovers with vast collections of music, so more often then not these same cats whom systems ranging from $7.500 - $48.000, yet we generally talk about music, you know like in jazz labels ( as in which were good, and which to avoid ), but having in the past merely driven as far as Florida or Seattle just to hear this or that gear after reading about it, I'm the sort that also looks very closely at what someone recommends as the best sounding items since sliced bread, yet said items isn't part of their system...., then I'm forced to ask myself and them " why not?, or isn't it? ".

Said people closest to me, are the ones whom ears I know, and trust, so they've gained my trust on said components or in my case tweaks, as system wise, I've found my own means and realize it ends here, lest something breaks, at which point......., I'm already aware of what to replace it with.

Whether we're talking credentials on paper or in the streets, it all has merits for the sake of whom you're trying to sell your product/wares/self to?, either it's believable or it/you aren't?. But I don't base things upon any given dollar amount tossed at what sometimes strikes me as mixed/matched items which merely cover sound waves, instead of playing back musical notes........, it's these misguided souls I've a problem trusting, as there are times it's the guys with the cheaper, yet well matched systems whom have gained my ear and trust, because they've shown they pay attention to detail in learning how to get the best sonics out of said components by merely listening, and voicing here or there to create a collective whole synergistic wise as they marched outwards and onwards, while others struggle in knowing why their overly priced gear isn't capable of bringing them years and years of joy, instead of mere months before it's replaced.

That's how I judge ones worth, good or bad, it works for me.

 

[mep]

CD-You should know by now that we live in a world full of the 'easily offended.' Unless you are a monk living in cave with no internet access, you are not going to make it through this life without pissing some people off. Some people love to be mad and claim great injury to their psyche due to the damage your words caused them. Now they have to step up their shrink therapy and meds to try and regain their mental balance that you caused them to lose. We need an emoticon that shows handing out sympathy cards and crying towels. irate:irate:

 

[Bobvin]

CD, that south park vid, had me roflmao. Thanks for that!

 

[gusgranite]

I think going by what people say over time rather than their kit list might give you better insight.