Hate speech in the audio community

[Michaels HiFi]

Gentlemen - Let’s just stop the back and forth. The argumentative exchanges are not helpful to anyone and it is clear they are driving divisiveness here.

With respects to all “Audiosharkies”…

The divisiveness already exists. People already have sides on this forum based on a variety of issues over the years. Now we've simply added one more.

Clearly the audio community is OK with what Trev posted.

Let's be honest - if someone had taken such an extreme position on one of the approved-social-justice issues, they would have been crucified.

 

[Kramer64]

I would respectfully disagree with you.

They like to pretend they are against hate, but then perpetuate it the strongest towards others. And they always have an excuse as to why their hate is acceptable.

The sidetrack started when people tried to play the word games and got called out for it.

Well, I’m not playing any word games. I think there is no place for antisemitic actions or language in our hobby, or anywhere else in our society. I would like to know what company engaged in this and exactly what they did.
I Agree that arising from what happened in Gaza there were mostly young people who I consider to be misguided and misinformed who reacted in an unacceptable manner. We have also seen mostly young people post vile, pro Nazi, antisemitic statements, other bile racist statements, and misogynist rhetoric on groups dedicated to one of our political parties. The condemnation of that has been weak and disturbing.

One can be truly revolted by this kind of behavior, as I am, and still believe that the actions in Gaza went too far. I suspect that ordinary Palestinians in Gaza and ordinary Israelis probably share many of the same hopes and dreams. We ought to be united in our condemnation of racism and bigotry. We can do that while maintaining good faith political differences. We can also condemn bigotry when it rears its ugly head in our hobby without dividing our hobby along political lines. At least I hope we can do that

 

[BendingWave]

One can be truly revolted by this kind of behavior, as I am, and still believe that the actions in Gaza went too far. I suspect that ordinary Palestinians in Gaza and ordinary Israelis probably share many of the same hopes and dreams. We ought to be united in our condemnation of racism and bigotry. We can do that while maintaining good faith political differences. We can also condemn bigotry when it rears its ugly head in our hobby without dividing our hobby along political lines. At least I hope we can do that

Tell me what should the reaction have been? Israel could have turned Gaza into a ghosttown in a few days and killed everyone. They didn't . Hamas does not care about anyone and about the people that live there that elected them, supports them, teaches their children to hate Jews from the age of 2 and only wished death on Jews and the destruction of Israel. Did you ever read the Hamas charter Kramer? ever read the Koran?
Please tell us what Israel should have done? What would you have done if terrorists invaded wherever you live , killed , raped, burned and mutilated 1200 of the people around you and took over 200 hostages to torture.
I always hear the condemnation but never a plan, a different idea or any solution.

 

[MontanaJoe]

Well, I’m not playing any word games. I think there is no place for antisemitic actions or language in our hobby, or anywhere else in our society. I would like to know what company engaged in this and exactly what they did.
I Agree that arising from what happened in Gaza there were mostly young people who I consider to be misguided and misinformed who reacted in an unacceptable manner. We have also seen mostly young people post vile, pro Nazi, antisemitic statements, other bile racist statements, and misogynist rhetoric on groups dedicated to one of our political parties. The condemnation of that has been weak and disturbing.

One can be truly revolted by this kind of behavior, as I am, and still believe that the actions in Gaza went too far. I suspect that ordinary Palestinians in Gaza and ordinary Israelis probably share many of the same hopes and dreams. We ought to be united in our condemnation of racism and bigotry. We can do that while maintaining good faith political differences. We can also condemn bigotry when it rears its ugly head in our hobby without dividing our hobby along political lines. At least I hope we can do that

The owner and

Well, I’m not playing any word games. I think there is no place for antisemitic actions or language in our hobby, or anywhere else in our society. I would like to know what company engaged in this and exactly what they did.
I Agree that arising from what happened in Gaza there were mostly young people who I consider to be misguided and misinformed who reacted in an unacceptable manner. We have also seen mostly young people post vile, pro Nazi, antisemitic statements, other bile racist statements, and misogynist rhetoric on groups dedicated to one of our political parties. The condemnation of that has been weak and disturbing.

One can be truly revolted by this kind of behavior, as I am, and still believe that the actions in Gaza went too far. I suspect that ordinary Palestinians in Gaza and ordinary Israelis probably share many of the same hopes and dreams. We ought to be united in our condemnation of racism and bigotry. We can do that while maintaining good faith political differences. We can also condemn bigotry when it rears its ugly head in our hobby without dividing our hobby along political lines. At least I hope we can do that

Well, I’m not playing any word games. I think there is no place for antisemitic actions or language in our hobby, or anywhere else in our society. I would like to know what company engaged in this and exactly what they did.
I Agree that arising from what happened in Gaza there were mostly young people who I consider to be misguided and misinformed who reacted in an unacceptable manner. We have also seen mostly young people post vile, pro Nazi, antisemitic statements, other bile racist statements, and misogynist rhetoric on groups dedicated to one of our political parties. The condemnation of that has been weak and disturbing.

One can be truly revolted by this kind of behavior, as I am, and still believe that the actions in Gaza went too far. I suspect that ordinary Palestinians in Gaza and ordinary Israelis probably share many of the same hopes and dreams. We ought to be united in our condemnation of racism and bigotry. We can do that while maintaining good faith political differences. We can also condemn bigotry when it rears its ugly head in our hobby without dividing our hobby along political lines. At least I hope we can do that

What’s an “ordinary Palestinian”.

One of the 13% who don’t support Hamas, one of the 13% whose life is at as much risk as the Israeli victims of Oct 7th?

Actions on Gaza went to far? Not sure where you live, but from the comfort of your home where you don’t have to worry about constant onslaught of missiles and terror attacks as “ordinary Israelis” have had to worry about since 1948, it shows an incredible amount of naivety.

I understand in today’s age, people believe in a measured retaliation but that’s not how war works. Gaza and Hamas started this

 

[Michaels HiFi]

Tell me what should the reaction have been? Israel could have turned Gaza into a ghosttown in a few days and killed everyone. They didn't . Hamas does not care about anyone and about the people that live there that elected them, supports them, teaches their children to hate Jews from the age of 2 and only wished death on Jews and the destruction of Israel. Did you ever read the Hamas charter Kramer? ever read the Koran?
Please tell us what Israel should have done? What would you have done if terrorists invaded wherever you live , killed , raped, burned and mutilated 1200 of the people around you and took over 200 hostages to torture.
I always hear the condemnation but never a plan, a different idea or any solution.

Clinton in 2000 gave Arafat everything the PLO wanted. Everything. Including returning Israeli land to them.

The Palestinians to the dismay of the world turned it down.

Why? Because they didn't want to stop killing Israelis.

Funny people who think Gaza was too far never seem to know a thing about the real history. Also funny how none of the bordering Arab countries want any of the Palestinians in their countries permanently. That's quite telling.

 

[Kramer64]

Tell me what should the reaction have been? Israel could have turned Gaza into a ghosttown in a few days and killed everyone. They didn't . Hamas does not care about anyone and about the people that live there that elected them, supports them, teaches their children to hate Jews from the age of 2 and only wished death on Jews and the destruction of Israel. Did you ever read the Hamas charter Kramer? ever read the Koran?
Please tell us what Israel should have done? What would you have done if terrorists invaded wherever you live , killed , raped, burned and mutilated 1200 of the people around you and took over 200 hostages to torture.
I always hear the condemnation but never a plan, a different idea or any solution.

We can debate that if you like. I likely agree with you on many points, maybe most. There is not a monolithic view on that topic even among the citizens of Israel, as I understand it.

My point is not what you or I think of the actions of the government of Israel. It is this- it is possible to genuinely abhor antisemitism- which is where this thread started-and disagree with some of the actions of the Israeli government. If you believe disagreeing with Israel’s prime minister makes a person antisemitic, well, I think that is your prerogative , but that doesn’t make it right. Or in any sense logical. That’s my point. We seem to be getting pretty close to conflating disagreements with the government of Israel with antisemitism- I hope that is not the intended message.

 

[BendingWave]

We can debate that if you like. I likely agree with you on many points, maybe most. There is not a monolithic view on that topic even among the citizens of Israel, as I understand it.

My point is not what you or I think of the actions of the government of Israel. It is this- it is possible to genuinely abhor antisemitism- which is where this thread started-and disagree with some of the actions of the Israeli government. If you believe disagreeing with Israel’s prime minister makes a person antisemitic, well, I think that is your prerogative , but that doesn’t make it right. Or in any sense logical. That’s my point. We seem to be getting pretty close to conflating disagreements with the government of Israel with antisemitism- I hope that is not the intended message.

So you completely ignored everything I said which was a reply to your first post that Israelwent to far in Gaza and there is such a thing as "ordinary Gazans" I am sorry , don't want to be rude or fight but you can't pull that stuff. Whats your reply ?, whats your plan? Criticize with nothing. Again what should have Israel done ? send a mean Tweet.
We live in the real world . What is your plan?

 

[MontanaJoe]

I

We can debate that if you like. I likely agree with you on many points, maybe most. There is not a monolithic view on that topic even among the citizens of Israel, as I understand it.

My point is not what you or I think of the actions of the government of Israel. It is this- it is possible to genuinely abhor antisemitism- which is where this thread started-and disagree with some of the actions of the Israeli government. If you believe disagreeing with Israel’s prime minister makes a person antisemitic, well, I think that is your prerogative , but that doesn’t make it right. Or in any sense logical. That’s my point. We seem to be getting pretty close to conflating disagreements with the government of Israel with antisemitism- I hope that is not the intended message.

You can’t make a statement and generalize to make the other argument look absurd. Yes you can disagree with Netanyahu and not be antisemitic BUT it depends what you disagree with and how you disagree.

If it’s about how he provides food and resources to his enemies, we can talk about it. On the other hand if you disagree with his right to ensure the survival of the Jewish state and the Jewish people and the foundation of WHY Israel exists, yes your an antisemite.

 

[MontanaJoe]

The divisiveness already exists. People already have sides on this forum based on a variety of issues over the years. Now we've simply added one more.

Clearly the audio community is OK with what Trev posted.

Let's be honest - if someone had taken such an extreme position on one of the approved-social-justice issues, they would have been crucified.

I have to say what Trevor posted was one of the most abhorrent and despicable posts I have ever seen. And in today’s antisemitic world that’s saying a lot

 

[Kramer64]

Well, I will tell you sir I am not an antisemite. You don’t know anything about me or other people that you might label, beyond the fact that we might have a different opinion.

I don’t question Israel’s right to defend itself. Whether it’s methods are always wise, is a different matter and I would point out that there are many Israelis who have issues with that. Does that make them antisemitic? That’s absurd, of course.

I’m always amazed by those who quickly resort to name-calling when faced with differing opinions. Probably best to leave it at that.

 

[BendingWave]

Well, I will tell you sir I am not an antisemite. You don’t know anything about me or other people that you might label, beyond the fact that we might have a different opinion.

I don’t question Israel’s right to defend itself. Whether it’s methods are always wise, is a different matter and I would point out that there are many Israelis who have issues with that. Does that make them antisemitic? That’s absurd, of course.

I’m always amazed by those who quickly resort to name-calling when faced with differing opinions. Probably best to leave it at that.

again so what should have Israel done? you make a statement but have no plan , no defense of your opinion. Based on what some Israeli's agree with you?
You got to come harder than that. He did not call you a name btw, you seem to want to run away.
Defend your position we are listening?

 

[MontanaJoe]

Well, I will tell you sir I am not an antisemite. You don’t know anything about me or other people that you might label, beyond the fact that we might have a different opinion.

I don’t question Israel’s right to defend itself. Whether it’s methods are always wise, is a different matter and I would point out that there are many Israelis who have issues with that. Does that make them antisemitic? That’s absurd, of course.

I’m always amazed by those who quickly resort to name-calling when faced with differing opinions. Probably best to leave it at that.

No not name calling.

When a country, her people and especially a whole race is attacked in the most horrific way, by an enemy(ies) whose sole purpose is to exterminate the Jewish state and race, then how Netanyahu prosecutes that war he didn’t start is his prerogative as well as the people who voted for him.

This is not about taxes, curfews, drinking age. As I’ve said elsewhere, there are self hating Jews, not just here in America like Sanders, Schumer and so many others, but amazingly in Israel as well. The desire for power makes for strange bedfellows even if those arrangements means your own demise.

Israel and her people will survive

 

[MontanaJoe]

again so what should have Israel done? you make a statement but have no plan , no defense of your opinion. Based on what some Israeli's agree with you?
You got to come harder than that. He did not call you a name btw, you seem to want to run away.
Defend your position we are listening?

It seems when it comes to Israel how she prosecutes the retaliation to those who wish to obliterate her and her people is all that matters to the naive

 

[BendingWave]

It seems when it comes to Israel how she prosecutes the retaliation to those who wish to obliterate her and her people is all that matters to the naive

I have a hard time understanding why people in the west do not understand that they do not have the same beliefs as us. They do not honor human life like us. They do not value their country. You are an infidel or a believer. Read the Koran , read the Hamas charter.
From the River to the sea is not a cute slogan. when someone repeated tells you they want to kill you at sometime you need to listen.


I wonder what Hamas would do if Israel had their children surrounding their military targets.

 

[MontanaJoe]

I have a hard time understanding why people in the west do not understand that they do not have the same beliefs as us. They do not honor human life like us. They do not value their country. You are an infidel or a believer. Read the Koran , read the Hamas charter.
From the River to the sea is not a cute slogan. when someone repeated tells you they want to kill you at sometime you need to listen.


I wonder what Hamas would do if Israel had their children surrounding their military targets.

"I wonder what Hamas would do if Israel had their children surrounding their military targets"

Dude, despite what some may think, unlike her enemies, Israel NEVER "targets" civilian targets and that is a fact. However, her enemies ALWAYS targets civilians, including children, apartments, airports, Olympic athletes, buses, cafes, beaches, etc.

I know your comment was tongue in cheek, but we know what Hamas would do because they already done it, without them being used as targets.