Has Aesthetix become a forgotten brand?

[MikeCh]

Mike-In all fairness, I think the thread has drifted into noise levels of tube preamps in general and not just the Aesthetix. If you buy a high-gain pure tube phono stage, you better expect some noise because it will be there. If you use SUTs or JFets as the first gain stage, you should have a quiet phono stage. If you buy a pure tube line stage, you shouldn't expect to have high levels of tube noise, but you shouldn't expect it to be as quiet as a tube line stage that uses JFETs as the first stage of gain. The ARC LS17 is a very quiet line stage for instance and it's not as expensive as some of the other gear being talked about here. I don't care for the way the LS17 sounds, but at least it was quiet while it was getting on my nerves.

Agreed Mark. That first stage is very important and SS / Hybrid does service it well.

 

[MikeCh]

Hmmm....not getting that. The Rhea Signature is $7500, the Manley Steelhead is $8000 , the AMR PH-77 is $12,000 & the Thoeress Phono Enhancer is $9000 . Features vary wildly - the Thoeress can accommodate 6 inputs , the AMR has multiple equalization curves and remote control everything , the Steelhead can double as a preamp and has na outboard power supply. So double to 4X ? Not grasping that .....must be the New Math. LOL

Not "new Math". The Thoress is 8450EUR not USD or CAD that I've found. If it's $9k USD then have at it (the features it provides are something that I personally would enjoy, FYI). The ARC Ref Phono 10 is $30k.

All of those that have been offered as alternatives would surely be awesome units, but are not an apples to apples comparison of price or design.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

You shouldn't hear tube rush from a phono preamp that uses JFETs as the input to the tube stage. I don't know that anyone is getting no tube rush from a pure tube phono stage with over 60dB of gain. The Steelhead uses SUTs for the input and I know that ARC uses JFETs. Somewhere in another thread I commented on the VTL 2.5 MKII preamp that has over 60dB of pure tube gain and it's quite noisy.

You are right about the ARC. Forget it uses JFETs like the Doshi. But the former two are all tube.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

You guys are funny with your comparisons. On one hand the conversation is realigned to focus on the Aesthetix Saturn series in post #44, then you throw out your own comparisons of gear of which four of the five offerings are almost double if not 4x the price even with dissimilar topologies. LOL.

Because a statement was made that pure tube phono sections over 62 dB of gain can't be quiet. I gave two examples. The new TW-Acustics has gobs of gain and is quiet - even when used with a low output Ortofon. The all tube cj gear that gives you 53 dB in the phono and 25 dB in the line is quiet with 0.5 mV cartridges and you actually can drive a 0.3 mV into the cj gear if you have one of their amps that have 0.5 V input sensitivity.

 

[jperry]

Because a statement was made that pure tube phono sections over 62 dB of gain can't be quiet. I gave two examples. The new TW-Acustics has gobs of gain and is quiet - even when used with a low output Ortofon. The all tube cj gear that gives you 53 dB in the phono and 25 dB in the line is quiet with 0.5 mV cartridges and you actually can drive a 0.3 mV into the cj gear if you have one of their amps that have 0.5 V input sensitivity.

The RPS 100 has two-stage amplification and active EQ. In the discrete power supply unit we use high-quality MKP capacitors. To ensure the lowest possible noise, we use an elaborately stabilised DC heater supply. For the Moving Coil stage we also employ high quality input transformers. The Raven Phono RPS 100 has three user-configurable inputs. The subtle push-buttons on the fascia allow you to choose between Moving Magnet and Moving Coil, impedance match the cartridge, alongside the RIAA EQ curve you can select from a further four EQ curves, you can also invert the phase and switch off the display.

 

[audio.bill]

Myles - with all due respect, just to clarify the TW-Acustics link you provided states that it uses transformers for the MC stage.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

Myles - with all due respect, just to clarify the TW-Acustics link you provided states that it uses transformers for the MC stage.

Ok I misremembered what Jeff said. However I'm pretty sure the Thoress is all tube. Listen, it was just an exercise to show someone did it. And that doesn't ensure how long they'll stay that way either.

 

[jperry]

The Thoress has a jfet front end.

If you set the gain on the Aesthetix Rhea to 42 and use a SUT or Klyne SK-2A head amp it will be as quiet as any of the other phono preamps with a jfet or tube front end.

That would be an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Bobolaclune]

The Thoress has a jfet front end.

If you set the gain on the Aesthetix Rhea to 42 and use a SUT or Klyne SK-2A head amp it will be as quiet as any of the other phono preamps with a jfet or tube front end.

That would be an apples to apples comparison.

For the record, Jim White emailed me that the optimal S/N ratio on the Rhea was achieved at 68db of Gain. I told him the noise at that point would drive me out of the room...which it did.

One way to think about things is to step back, take a look at the postings and see what the postings indicate. Some users seem to feel that what is needed is to spend more money and buy NOS tubes to quiet things down. jperry suggests that the solution is to use an outboard SUT . In other words, more money . I am certainly not hung up on whether I have a purist all-tube phono stage , I'm only interested in the sonics . When audiophiles are being asked to push good money towards gear in an effort to rectify known issues and deficiencies , I think it's fair to assume they have a problem. If the likes of VAC, AMR, Thoeress & Manley have concluded that the best solution to running tubes into a phono stage is to incorporate jets or SUT's ..... it's probably a good time to pay attention.

 

[Mike]

Interesting thread. If your system is otherwise dead quiet, then a noisy phonostage will drive you bonkers.

What about the displays....anyone think to consider if some of those may be causing noise too? Putting illuminated displays in a phonostage (with no ability to turn off) is just a stupid design which often creates a high pitched whistle.

Anyone else notice this?


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[mep]

What about the displays....anyone think to consider if some of those may be causing noise too? Putting illuminated displays in a phonostage (with no ability to turn off) is just a stupid design which often creates a high pitched whistle.

Anyone else notice this?


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Mine whistles Dixie, but only between tracks. Seriously, there is noise and there is NOISE. You can't ask a pure tube phono stage to amplify a signal from a LOMC (less than .3mv) that is in the noise floor of the tube itself and not expect noise.

You can't have your pure tube cake and a LOMC cartridge and eat it too without eating some noise.

 

[Mike]

Mine whistles Dixie, but only between tracks. Seriously, there is noise and there is NOISE. You can't ask a pure tube phono stage to amplify a signal from a LOMC (less than .3mv) that is in the noise floor of the tube itself and not expect noise.

You can't have your pure tube cake and a LOMC cartridge and eat it too without eating some noise.

True. I've had my ARC REF2SE in my system longer than any piece......but that will change in January.

 

[Bobolaclune]

I agree - it's actually pretty interesting how few manufacturers have decided to completely go pure tube . Jim White might be all alone on his mountain......

For myself, I remain amazed though, by how low that noise floor can be in a tubed phono stage that as far as I am concerned, gives me all the bloom, warmth & dimensionality of analog albeit through the use of jfet stages or trannies.

 

[RedSectorA]

I agree - it's actually pretty interesting how few manufacturers have decided to completely go pure tube . Jim White might be all alone on his mountain......

For myself, I remain amazed though, by how low that noise floor can be in a tubed phono stage that as far as I am concerned, gives me all the bloom, warmth & dimensionality of analog albeit through the use of jfet stages or trannies.

May depend on how you listen Bob, if I recall you listen nearfield ( the view from your room does not reflect that although it could be an optical illusion) and it may bother you. I listen slightly farfield so what little tube noise I have I can't hear at all, I will hear tape hiss depending on SPL but never tube noise from my seating position.

Again YMMV!

 

[tunes]

When i owned a rhea, i also found it a little noisy but it seduced me with great sound. I would say that i found it a bit of a tube eater however. I ended up trading up to a rhea sig that glenn at aesthetix adjusted and setup with a low noise matched quad in stages 1&2. It was very good with a benz ebony h at the time. It was also the most user friendly of stages i've tried with 3 inputs, each adjustable for gain/load via remote. When i switched carts to a lomc allaerts, i tried an arc ref 2, nagra vps and then settled on the tron seven ultimate that jeff catalano setup to match the cart. It has been the best low-noise tube phono stage i've tried for the allaerts finish cart. I agree with others that it's pretty unlikely to find a tube phono stage that will be high gain and silent as far as tube noise is concerned. In the end i sold the tron and now happily use the ss trinity phono. Lots of great phono stages out there to suit everyone's cup of tea.
Chris