Great Hi End Values

Mike

Mike

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Day in, day out, we see the next super expensive amplifier, preamp or DAC. Speakers north of $40,000 are no uncommon anymore. To many, they just roll their eyes. I think part of the fun part of this hobby is to uncover the true "values" in high end audio. A "value" doesn't mean "cheap" or even "inexpensive" - because that is all relative, it means that this product hits way above its price point and betters many products costing multiples of more.

People coming into this hobby, would love to read about these values and try them for themselves.

Let me know some true "values" you have found in your audio ventures.

Here are some of mine:

1. Classe CP800 - this $5000 retail preamp is as good as many $30,000 preamps out there. It doesn't impart any sonic signature on the sound that I could hear. It is full of great functionality, has the best volume control I've ever seen and the remote is solid metal. A world class preamp at a price that won't require a second mortgage.

2. JOB 225 - there has been a lot of chatter about this great little amp. It's a giant killer, with the sweetest sound you will hear. Sonically, it does nothing wrong. It's the Rodney Dangerfield of the audio world right now.

3. Lumin - talk about a giant killer. I will put this up against ANY digital on the market - including the big DCS stack.

4. Bryston 28SST's. Whatever James and his team did designing these monos produced a solid state amp that is as good as anything out there under $30,000 - maybe more.

5. APC S15/S20 - I know, I know, what is APC doing on this list? The APC S15/S20 are great power conditioners/power regulators and battery backups. Provided you don't overload them, they will not affect sonics. I own four APC S20's and two S15's....yeah, I like 'em. :)

6. Cary CAD 211 FE's with the Psvane Replica Series tubes I have mentioned previously. I know these aren't inexpensive by any means, but I will put these amps, with this tube compliment up against the $200,000 Kondo's ALL DAY LONG and win!

7. Shunyata Alpha Digital Power Cord - I can't think of any other cable I would prefer on my digital sources. Caeln & Co. nailed this one.

8. Ortofon Cadenza Bronze - bring on your $10,000 cartridges...this bad boy delivers.

9. Vicoustic Wavewood - ~$700 for a pack of 10. Might be the best $700 you'll ever spend on your system.

10. Emerald Physics speakers. The little EP speakers aren't going to win any beauty contest, but sound great and are reasonably priced. Efficient too.
 
great thread Mike only things i can contribute is for used gear. as i dont buy much new gear but you mentioned cadenza bronze i will +1 that and add the cadenza black and the blue also which i have experience with both, and just say this line of cartridges is just a great all around value, and the money you will spend on any one of these cadenza cartridges is near impossible to beat all the way up the line of any other brands i have heard. ive heard alot.
not to brag but ill add my merrill williams and ortofon ta110 arm to that list, ive heard so many tables in the last year and there is no way that i could ever afford to better the setup i have here. the other tables that i would put ahead of this are all in the $15-20k plus range.
one of the greatest values i think are some older gems, that were overlooked even when they were new.because of not being the companies flagship model. a BAT vk3i preamp, can be had used for $800-1000 and has a darn good phonostage in it as well. and if you run a great source through it into great amps and speakers, it would be very hard to tell it wasnt a $15000 preamp. an i think better than the 2 more expensive BATs ive owned in the past.

i dont even want to start about how good the veneres Mike talked me into buying are. or how much i love these new(to me) cary amps. thats over the top.lol

but my audio life is pretty much finding what was a good value 5 years ago new and buying them used so i can afford them.
great values is amps that perform way above their price(used of course.lol) i only do tube amps. im only putting the ones i have experience with
bat vk60
cary cad120mk2
manley snappers

oh id like to add Raidho c1.1's these little speakers easily kept up with the d3's and d1's imo, at almost 1/2 of the d1 price and a 1/5 of the d3's. yes you could hear differences in the three, but it was very subtle and for the money you still get that awesome tweeter and really cool looking speaker, that throws soundstage in every corner of your room. an awesome value. if i ddnt change over to low watt tube amps , id stil be trying to figure out how i could own a pair.
 
Ok, not exactly a component, but one of the best values in my estimation has been the $200 spent on two dedicated power lines (2x20amp breakers, 2 runs of wire and 2 x PS Audio outlets).
 
This is something dear to my heart ! Audio gear that exceeds expectations and competes or beats the best out there at a fraction of their cost.

Mike has already mentioned 2 of those pieces, The Lumin A-1 and the Classe' CP 800.

I know this sounds self serving, but I have to add the Class' CA M600 amps and the Revel Salon 2 speakers. I've been looking long and hard to find better pieces of gear, and I'm still looking !!

I still haven't found a better speaker for the money, or for even a lot more money.

I have found a better amp than the Classe's, but it lists for $27,000 !!!! If I don't change speakers, I'll most likely buy it. But I wouldn't call it a bargain.

Shunyata cables are another one, they match or beat the performance of cables costing way, way, more. I do think they are a bargain for what you get.


AND.....................The No.1 Audio bargain in the world is AudioShark !! It doesn't cost anything...............and I love it's value :woot:
 
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Well, as another who does not want to appear to be self-serving, I'll mention three:

1) Parasound JC1 monoblocks. There is a good reason that these have appeared on every reviewer's "best of" list since they were first introduced and Stereophile routinely compares these to amps costing twice as much. Nothing below $15K retail beats these.

2) Parasound JC3 phono pre. Another giant killer from the guys in the city by the bay. I compared this to my buddy's ARC Ref2, in my system and his, and we both agreed that the JC3 belongs in the same category, soundwise. The Ref2 was better, but it was very close. I don't know how Parasound and John Curl do it. Curl is a genius, IMO.

3) Furutech AG-12 phono cable. High end sound with a mid-fi price. Looking for an inexpensive high-quality phono cable? Get this and be done with it.
 
I'm kinda fond of the Furutech GTX-D AC Receptacles after the dedicated lines.


John
 
I think one of the best values in hi end is the Clearaudio Concept TT. I don't have one but I've seen it in action. A TT from a top notch company icnluding the arm and the concept mc cartridge for $2k, it's quite a bargain.
 
Dollar for dollar i have yet to find a better speaker than Acoustat the only one for ME that come's close is Magnepan YES another panel.
 
Interesting. While most of these I personally could not call a great value because they are well beyond my means, I do think that for those who can afford them they are good examples.
Personally, I took a look at the Job 25 and the Classe amp and of course the Lumin for giggles. The Job 225 is one of the ugliest eye sores I've ever seen, but if it is as stated in performance, we can live with ugly. I wish I knew what the power rating was on these, but the specs don't state it.
Classe amp, I have always liked the looks of the Classe products! I think they are beautiful. I've never had the notion to demo them because I was not looking for amps or anything whenever I did see these. I fear though that what I would need from them would be well outside my reach, sadly. That said, I don't suppose there is any harm from admiring them at a distance. My sole local high-end dealer carries them, but I don't want to have him set them up for demo knowing I can't even afford to look at the brochure. That's just wrong.
I've seen pics of the Lumin and just love it, but it's priced about 6 miles over my head.
 
I've been demo'ing the Lehmann Black Cube SE II phono preamp this past week. Wow, this little two chassis preamp is just super. It has a drive and vividness that is quite stunning. The mid range clarity and smoothness is pleasing and the frequency extremes are presented without coloration or bloat (down low) or grain (up high).

For the price I think it's a great buy with great value. May not be considered "high end" but from what I've read (and now heard), it competes above it's class and can hold it's own. My ears like it!
 
I am not sure if you are interested in older gear too, but if so and you want to ride the way-back machine; here are some I felt were an excellent bang for the buck:

0. Adcom 555 (original version, not the mkii): I felt this was a giant killer in the late 80s. It had a good amount of power with tons of headroom that sonically competed (to my ears) with amps many times over its price (I paid $375 for mine new at the time). While not as sweet sounding as the Adcom 545, it was more sonically balanced and accurate. If you couldn't afford the Krells, Levinsons, and Spectrals, this little guy got you a decent percentage of the way there for 1/10 of the cost. Although I did not like the mkii for some reason. PS Audio and NAD were the main "giant killer" competitors, but I preferred the Adcom.

1. Sumiko Blue Point Special Cartridge: Another late 80s bargain in my mind......I found the transient details of this cartridge way too good for the price (I think I purchased mine for $225). Some argued the Benz-Glider, I preferred this one.

2. Magnovox CDB650 (yeah, Magnavox): The unit in the late 80s that finally was "not total crap digital" to my ears. This player ($250) was basically a Philips player ($2000+ can't remember its price) with a plastic case, crummier servo, and two op amps and 4 resistors difference. I remember getting the unit new and immediately pulling the cover off and DE soldering in the new parts. My Dad almost died thinking I was insane. Anyway, at the time you nearly had to buy a Theta digital system to beat this little "mass-market" player. It even had a digital out.

From a more recent point of view, the biggest bargain that I have come across (and unfortunately they don't make the original versions of these any more and the new ones are not as pleasing to me) are (NOTE: I currently own and use these, so yes, I have some bias):

0. Jungson Golden Dragon Interconnects: I was able to get these 1m balanced new for just under $300. I was a hair away from purchasing the Synergistic Research top of the line Tesla models ($4000+ at the time, superb cables in their own right) a few years back when I ran across these cables in Asia. To my ears, I found that the Jungson won hands down. To put it even more into perspective (again, to my sonic tastes), recently I was auditioning new digital front ends and the guy who brought over some equipment knew my amplifier/pre-amp combo and brought over some "Very Reputable High End interconnect vendor" interconnects that were specially tuned for that equipment (~$14,000). Even he was amazed and admitted that with only one area (he felt the Jungson's were just slightly thinner in the upper mids) the Jungson equaled or bettered them in this particular system. Anyway, as usual everyone has their own tastes and in this system, I feel these interconnects are a world-killer bargain.
 
laynesaddiction said:
Even he was amazed and admitted that with only one area (he felt the Jungson's were just slightly thinner in the upper mids) the Jungson equaled or bettered them in this particular system.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the spam, this should read:

Even he was amazed and admitted that with the exception of only one area (he felt the Jungson's were just slightly thinner in the upper mids) the Jungson equaled or bettered them in this particular system.
 
MikeCh said:
I've been demo'ing the Lehmann Black Cube SE II phono preamp this past week. Wow, this little two chassis preamp is just super. It has a drive and vividness that is quite stunning. The mid range clarity and smoothness is pleasing and the frequency extremes are presented without coloration or bloat (down low) or grain (up high).

For the price I think it's a great buy with great value. May not be considered "high end" but from what I've read (and now heard), it competes above it's class and can hold it's own. My ears like it!
Click to expand...

That's the bottom line no matter what, isn't it. It's all in the ears of the beholder. There is so much gear out there it gets overwhelming sometimes.
At the end of the day, it's our individual ears that decide what makes our music sound it's best and the music is the most important piece, period, hands down. As long as the person enjoys the music through their gear, then it's all good.
 
MusicDirector said:
That's the bottom line no matter what, isn't it. It's all in the ears of the beholder. There is so much gear out there it gets overwhelming sometimes.
At the end of the day, it's our individual ears that decide what makes our music sound it's best and the music is the most important piece, period, hands down. As long as the person enjoys the music through their gear, then it's all good.
Click to expand...

It's the exactemente same thing with women.
 
Of course, the question to be made is where exactly is the cut off for high end? And what time period are we talking about?

Some of the interesting components I have encountered are the Bamberg Audio Series 5TMW. An absolute gem of a speaker, although a bit homely looking in some regards. Phillip Bamberg knows how to build passive crossover networks, and his ability to coax the final bit of performance out of the SEAS drivers is remarkable. I think this is one of the finest affordable speakers I have ever heard.

Eminent technology LFT 8B, is one of the unheralded good buys in the audio world. Bruce Thigpin is a super smart guy who knows his audio. The design on his planar magnetic drivers is top notch. Plus this is a very affordable speaker.

GR Research Neo 2X. Danny Ritchie is another talented US designer. His products are truly high end designs, and I love how he voices his speakers.

VMPS 626JR. RIP Brian, wish I had known you longer. The 626JR is a fine speaker, as is the RM40. Interesting that he uses a Bruce Thigpin designed midrange planer driver in his speakers.

Liberty Audio B2B-1 phono stage. Disclosure, I own one, and obviously feel its a good value. Falls in that no mans land where it is more expensive than say a Phenomena !!, and less expensive than the upper tier products. But it is built on a basic layout of the circuit that Peter Noerbeck uses in the $12,ooo and $20,000 PBN phono stages. Lots of JFET goodness in this unassuming black box.

Decware ZCD200i CD player. Steve Deckert builds a nifty tube output stage for the TASCAM CD player, and does a nice job finding performance gains in this solidly built player. A very decent CD player for not a lot of green.

Just the ramblings of a rural pig....

Regards
Mister Pig
 
I agree with Mister Pig on the ET LFT8B speaker - amazing performer for the price. Amazing. If you can't afford an Esoteric K-series SACD player/DAC the Denon DCD-A100 Anniversary SACD Player DAC is great value for $$$ I always think Kimber Cable original remains a good buy in audio.
 
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