Gain on preamps and why are some so high? ...

Joe

I would think the Linear Tube Audio and the Job Mono's would be an a hard to beat combo with all your speakers if there is enough juice.
 
It is a wonderful combo. The pairing that's near impossible to beat right now for me, is the MZ2 and my MC303. Oh my goodness. I absolutely love it.


Jack said:
Joe

I would think the Linear Tube Audio and the Job Mono's would be an a hard to beat combo with all your speakers if there is enough juice.
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Interesting, not a combo I would have guessed to click but that is why you never know until you try different parts together. I have never tried the STP-SE and the BHK together so that is a combo I need to try. No reason they wouldn't work together as the basic design principals and some of the parts are the same.
 
This may sound like a back handed compliment, but the MC303/MZ2 combo is so good, you would never believe it's a McIntosh amp. Big, bold, beautiful 3D, ballsy, depth and layering, a little sweet and lots of control. I am very excited at how good it sounds.

Jack said:
Interesting, not a combo I would have guessed to click but that is why you never know until you try different parts together. I have never tried the STP-SE and the BHK together so that is a combo I need to try. No reason they wouldn't work together as the basic design principals and some of the parts are the same.
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As I have never owned a Mc amp I wonder if the signature of the 303 might be similar to the 452 as I have heard it described in similar terms. Maybe instead of the big KW amps a pair of 601's might be an end point.
 
I thought so too but years ago I had MC601s, and while I kind of liked them, they weren’t anything like this 303. I found out recently that the MC303 has the power supply from the MC1.2KWs, so maybe I’m almost already there :)

Jack said:
As I have never owned a Mc amp I wonder if the signature of the 303 might be similar to the 452 as I have heard it described in similar terms. Maybe instead of the big KW amps a pair of 601's might be an end point.
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I've always understood that part of the story relating to gain in a given preamp would be the philosophy of the manufacturer relating to negative feedback in gain stages. If I'm not mistaken for example CJ prefer very little or no negative feedback in theirs. This feedback philosophy like most other things depending on the folks sitting at the table. All else being equal, higher amounts of negative feedback decreases the gain.

I've not really experienced any issues running high-gain preamps into different manufacturers power amps. I've driven several solid state pwr amps with the GAT (Mac, Parasound, Primare etc.) having said that, yes, the volume control can typically end up in the 8-11AM range vs 10AM and up.
 
I had the pb of too much gain when I had the Mcintosh C22 as preamp.... I think it s 26 db ! stupid... so I bought these attenuators (in 15 dB !) and I could have proper volume tuning...http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html
Also I would tend to think that the more you turn your volume control on the preamp the more signal you get, and so increasing your S/N ratio...
On the Bruston BP 17 I have 12dB in RCA and 18dB in XLR so two different gains for a single preamp.... which is nice
 
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If anyone has the appetite to educate, I would love to hear an explanation of what gain is! I am only just starting to explore the world of amplifiers (pre, power and integrated) so am behind the 8-ball.
 
AJR said:
If anyone has the appetite to educate, I would love to hear an explanation of what gain is! I am only just starting to explore the world of amplifiers (pre, power and integrated) so am behind the 8-ball.
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Just trying to help the gent to approach the idea...gain, and gain structure is what joe is also talking about (gain of the preamp and gain of the amp, then input and output sensitivities) and i thought minidsp tutorial put is simply and is a good start, independently of DSP...

Now if you want me to say that this is irrelevant, so be it...
 
I think it is a very kind idea to try to help. But the link you sent was referring to DSP gain, which is a different thing than what the discussion was about. Hence my question, as it will most likely cause even more confusion.

Would have thought something like “Gain is the amplification level the preamp applies to the incoming signal. If it is too weak, part of the original is lost, if is is too strong the signal will be distorted.”

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
joeinid said:
It is a wonderful combo. The pairing that's near impossible to beat right now for me, is the MZ2 and my MC303. Oh my goodness. I absolutely love it.
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Thats is very interesting. I’m shopping for a preamp to use with my Mcintosh mc402 right now...the mz2 is under my price point...just don’t know if I can live with the tiny size and no balanced in/out.

But, how can it be ignored?
 
Welcome to the forum, thank you so much for joining.

I swapped in sweeter 12AU7 tubes. I had an MC402 many years ago and I have to say that I think it will match even better for you.

I’m listening right now and am smiling. :)

Linear Tube Audio offers a trial period.

Just turn it on a minute or two before you turn the amp on and enjoy.

Arnoldhasmail said:
Thats is very interesting. I’m shopping for a preamp to use with my Mcintosh mc402 right now...the mz2 is under my price point...just don’t know if I can live with the tiny size and no balanced in/out.

But, how can it be ignored?
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Thanks for the feedback..and the welcome...just joined tonight. Been reading here on and off for the last month...decided to take the plunge and join...

I’m using a BAT vk-50 pre...the one with a dozen 6922's...looking to try something new. Had the opportunity to hear the Backert rhumba 1.2 in my system...I was surprised how nice it was...just so different from the BAT.
 
I keep looking at the Backert preamps. I’m not sure what it is but I like them and they look well made. Can you describe the sound a little bit? My MC303 and next amp(s) :) may determine my next preamp or at least preamp in addition to the MZ2. Solid state most likely and tube possibly.
 
joeinid said:
I keep looking at the Backert preamps. I’m not sure what it is but I like them and they look well made. Can you describe the sound a little bit? My MC303 and next amp(s) :) may determine my next preamp or at least preamp in addition to the MZ2. Solid state most likely and tube possibly.
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It was really nice. I've been using the BAT vk50 for a while now...so I don't have much else to compare it with. The Backert Rhumba 1.2 is very nice. Very well made...beautiful feel to the unit, switches...and it's very musical. The first few nights I had it, I was up till 4am running through my music collection! It made me tap my toes and play air guitar! It brings the musician to you...It doesn't send you to the venue...if you know what I mean. Listening to some stand-up bass with he Backert actually put the instrument in my room...where the BAT sat me at the venue or had me listening to the recording...very very different presentations. The Backert also has incredible bass, very tight, deep, much better than the BAT. It also has a beautiful weighty midrange and the treble is sweet. I would have liked a little more detail and air at the top(the BAT has that in spades), but I'm told going to the Extreme version would address all my concerns...and I believe it! It also never got congested...no matter how complex the music got or how much was going on...it held the picture open and presented it well...I was very impressed for $3400...and I believe I would love the extreme...but it's out of my price range...I'm trying to stay in the 3's...
 
Thank you so much for taking the time to describe what you heard. I do realize it can be very difficult.
 
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