Excited about tomorrow...

Frankly speaking, I do not see this digital OR analog perspective so much, why not simply have both?

I do have both and will continue to have both, enjoy both and they bring me different benefits.


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Kuoppis said:
Frankly speaking, I do not see this digital OR analog perspective so much, why not simply have both?

I do have both and will continue to have both, enjoy both and they bring me different benefits.


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Click to expand...

why not simply have both?
Click to expand...
exactly. Nothing wrong to two pieces of equipment that brings a person some joy.
 
Mike said:
The biggest thing I can say is that the Select II just can’t be considered digital. I know this sounds ridiculous, and if I didn’t hear it myself, I would laugh, but it’s seriously a different source category all together. I feel it’s THAT different from your typical “DAC”.

For years the digital has been the worst thing in our systems, we were always trying to tune out the harshness with cables, some tubes, forgiving speakers, etc. Now I ask people to consider the “DAC” (for lack of a better term) is the best thing in the system, maybe by far. If that is true you will hear BIG differences when comparing just about anything else in the system. It is quite a revelation. It is further impressive to know that this has all been achieved without upsampling or tricks, just ….insane…precision in the DAC ladders and clock, then taking great care of the signal all the way to the output jacks.


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Click to expand...


Put it by the Chimney Mike , i have Santa on will call ...... :)
 
Would be nice if all could celebrate with Mike on this. He has some multiple excellent world class systems that he has as a yardstick that many could only wish to hear in their audio journeys. It's not often the grand poobah states something as it is definitively..... He's probably got a Kronos in the back alley by the skip by now :D
 
Mike -

Congratulations on picking up MSB! Need to come by the store and give the Select II a listen.
 
Mike, congrats!
Your inventory of high class gear keeps expanding.
Amazing and good for our hobby: we need yardsticks.
 
Hi,
Is three a sonic resemblance to their lower priced reference model? And is there a sonic resemblance to their older IV and V DAC models? Or do they not worry about maintaining a "house sound"? Thanks
 
Boogieman said:
Hi,
Is three a sonic resemblance to their lower priced reference model? And is there a sonic resemblance to their older IV and V DAC models? Or do they not worry about maintaining a "house sound"? Thanks
Click to expand...

Hi,

The MSB SELECT and the Reference share the same platform and the same hybrid DAC modules, so they do have a remarkable sonic resemblance. As I like to say, they have "the magic", the capability to disappear as a source.

Their previous products used different platforms and DAC modules, and as such, were also very similar among themselves, but are in no way comparable to the current oferrings. What MSB has achieved with the SELECT/Reference is extraordinary, and even their previously excellent DACs pale in comparison to those two new products.

So, even if you're familiar with the DAC IV/V, do give these new products a try, as they're considerably better, truly in a league of their own.

I believe Priaptor had a DAC V before his SELECT, so he'll also be able to chime in...


cheers,
Alex
 
Thank you. I read, above, comparisons to analog. But are there differences between the way DSD and PCM sound, or do the digital format differences blend away? Thanks
 
Boogieman said:
Thank you. I read, above, comparisons to analog. But are there differences between the way DSD and PCM sound, or do the digital format differences blend away? Thanks
Click to expand...

yes; and I have many, many, files with high rez of both formats, and the source format is consistently better. and sometimes a redbook is better than a dsd.

the Select II reveals any difference; the Hybrid dac seems to optimize both pcm and dsd.....and maintain the sense of both. like vinyl or tape are vinyl and tape.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
yes; and I have many, many, files with high rez of both formats, and the source format is consistently better. and sometimes a redbook is better than a dsd.

the Select II reveals any difference; the Hybrid dac seems to optimize both pcm and dsd.....and maintain the sense of both. like vinyl or tape are vinyl and tape.
Click to expand...

I agree with Mike. You'll be able to assess the recordings for what they are. If a good job was done, you will hear it. But one thing is for certain, you will be thinking A LOT less of PCM, DSD, hi-res, MQA, etc. and just enjoy the music, since everything will sound incredible through it!
 
Mike Lavigne said:
yes; and I have many, many, files with high rez of both formats, and the source format is consistently better. and sometimes a redbook is better than a dsd.

the Select II reveals any difference; the Hybrid dac seems to optimize both pcm and dsd.....and maintain the sense of both. like vinyl or tape are vinyl and tape.
Click to expand...

All good Mike, but where does this IYO, put the Select 2 vs similarly priced analog TT System
( TT/Cartridge/arm/ phono stage)..... ???


Regards ...
 
a.wayne said:
All good Mike, but where does this IYO, put the Select 2 vs similarly priced analog TT System
( TT/Cartridge/arm/ phono stage)..... ???


Regards ...
Click to expand...

recently my MSB has been further optimized with new footers, and improved active isolation devices......so it's better now than a few months ago. I just got a new cartridge, so looks like that's another step up. a new tt is coming in April, another step up. maybe a different phono stage after that; another step up. so it goes at the top of the vinyl food chain. the reference is advancing.

so both the MSB and my vinyl are not static. they are being incrementally improved.

my vinyl set-up right now has a list price equivalent to the ($115k) MSB Select II, 2 power bases, and the 33 Femto clock + the ($16k) SGM server. my new tt will double or more (depending on whether I keep the NVS tt) that investment for the vinyl.

I've written this before. the MSB set up I have is in the overall performance category of good to very good vinyl ($50k-$70k new list price total for the gear), which I view as a couple of notches below my vinyl set up (just my personal opinion.....not all might agree). so you can get the performance more efficiently with the vinyl. but on the media side of things there is no contest; the MSB is waay better in every way you can name. easier access, cheaper, highest quality easy to get, no scarcity. similar to vinyl verses tape. tape gets you lots of performance much more cheaply for the gear compared to vinyl, but the acquiring high performance tape media will kill you quickly.

years ago I acquired both vinyl and tape media; if I never added any i'd have enough. so that is not my issue. but anyone entering the analog arena would see that as a huge challenge; and the full meal deal MSB then becomes a rational way to go for top level performance and easiest access to the music. and the top of the food chain for vinyl has logistical challenges that the MSB will never have.

and really; the performance level of my MSB, or that equivalent level of vinyl, is really quite high and totally satisfying. i'm astonished every day and it never gets old or same'o-same'o. it's pinch-me time all day long. i'm pulled into the music.

is there another level (or three)? yes. but it's not anything essential. the MSB covers essential completely. there is honestly nothing to quibble about. no feeling of lack of depth, or tone, or nuance. it has it all.
 
Very nice write-up Mike, thanks. It is interesting that you maintain that while the MSB is great, great vinyl can still be better. Personally, I don’t think that takes anything away from how good the MSB is.

For me it is also similar: I love a great DAC, but that does not mean I will give up vinyl. Cost of media is no consideration for me though, as I am not into tapes and do not have a desire for very rare LP original issues either. I just like to handle and collect 50’s/ 60’s Jazz vinyl, and at the same time appreciate the breadth of the selection available through Tidal. When I find something I like in particular I try to get it on vinyl. That chase can be quite fun, like when finding an original sealed unit of that excellent Speakers Corner re-issue of Illinois Jacquet’s Swing’s The Thing.


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Mike Lavigne said:
recently my MSB has been further optimized with new footers, and improved active isolation devices......so it's better now than a few months ago. I just got a new cartridge, so looks like that's another step up. a new tt is coming in April, another step up. maybe a different phono stage after that; another step up. so it goes at the top of the vinyl food chain. the reference is advancing.

so both the MSB and my vinyl are not static. they are being incrementally improved.

my vinyl set-up right now has a list price equivalent to the ($115k) MSB Select II, 2 power bases, and the 33 Femto clock + the ($16k) SGM server. my new tt will double or more (depending on whether I keep the NVS tt) that investment for the vinyl.

I've written this before. the MSB set up I have is in the overall performance category of good to very good vinyl ($50k-$70k new list price total for the gear), which I view as a couple of notches below my vinyl set up (just my personal opinion.....not all might agree). so you can get the performance more efficiently with the vinyl. but on the media side of things there is no contest; the MSB is waay better in every way you can name. easier access, cheaper, highest quality easy to get, no scarcity. similar to vinyl verses tape. tape gets you lots of performance much more cheaply for the gear compared to vinyl, but the acquiring high performance tape media will kill you quickly.

years ago I acquired both vinyl and tape media; if I never added any i'd have enough. so that is not my issue. but anyone entering the analog arena would see that as a huge challenge; and the full meal deal MSB then becomes a rational way to go for top level performance and easiest access to the music. and the top of the food chain for vinyl has logistical challenges that the MSB will never have.

and really; the performance level of my MSB, or that equivalent level of vinyl, is really quite high and totally satisfying. i'm astonished every day and it never gets old or same'o-same'o. it's pinch-me time all day long. i'm pulled into the music.

is there another level (or three)? yes. but it's not anything essential. the MSB covers essential completely. there is honestly nothing to quibble about. no feeling of lack of depth, or tone, or nuance. it has it all.
Click to expand...

I couldn’t have said it better myself.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
recently my MSB has been further optimized with new footers, and improved active isolation devices......so it's better now than a few months ago. I just got a new cartridge, so looks like that's another step up. a new tt is coming in April, another step up. maybe a different phono stage after that; another step up. so it goes at the top of the vinyl food chain. the reference is advancing.

so both the MSB and my vinyl are not static. they are being incrementally improved.

my vinyl set-up right now has a list price equivalent to the ($115k) MSB Select II, 2 power bases, and the 33 Femto clock + the ($16k) SGM server. my new tt will double or more (depending on whether I keep the NVS tt) that investment for the vinyl.

I've written this before. the MSB set up I have is in the overall performance category of good to very good vinyl ($50k-$70k new list price total for the gear), which I view as a couple of notches below my vinyl set up (just my personal opinion.....not all might agree). so you can get the performance more efficiently with the vinyl. but on the media side of things there is no contest; the MSB is waay better in every way you can name. easier access, cheaper, highest quality easy to get, no scarcity. similar to vinyl verses tape. tape gets you lots of performance much more cheaply for the gear compared to vinyl, but the acquiring high performance tape media will kill you quickly.

years ago I acquired both vinyl and tape media; if I never added any i'd have enough. so that is not my issue. but anyone entering the analog arena would see that as a huge challenge; and the full meal deal MSB then becomes a rational way to go for top level performance and easiest access to the music. and the top of the food chain for vinyl has logistical challenges that the MSB will never have.

and really; the performance level of my MSB, or that equivalent level of vinyl, is really quite high and totally satisfying. i'm astonished every day and it never gets old or same'o-same'o. it's pinch-me time all day long. i'm pulled into the music.

is there another level (or three)? yes. but it's not anything essential. the MSB covers essential completely. there is honestly nothing to quibble about. no feeling of lack of depth, or tone, or nuance. it has it all.
Click to expand...

Actually it sounds like a guy trying to rationalize that he has committed to the new AS TT
 
Boogieman said:
Hi,
Is three a sonic resemblance to their lower priced reference model? And is there a sonic resemblance to their older IV and V DAC models? Or do they not worry about maintaining a "house sound"? Thanks
Click to expand...

The IV and V have similar sonic characteristics. From my perch, since I do all my digital "streaming" at this point via usb, the implementation of their PROI2S usb in either the IV or V was more important than having either the IV or V. The V was "better" and allowed one to go to a full DSD256 where one was limited to 128 with the IV. The upgrade price from the IV to the V was worth it.

The Select II is a different ballgame. It's hard to describe the differences other than it's a different ballgame and this is on top of what was already one of the best DACs on the market. Redbook sounds remarkable, truly remarkable and one has to wonder about the resolution wars after hearing redbook on the Select II. Was listening to Lyn Stanley yesterday, the first time in awhile, in DSD and I have to say, the transparency, width and depth were just amazing. Even more so was the layering of her and the accompanying performers. The Select II impresses me the more I hear it. There are no weaknesses other than price. It will display the strengths and weaknesses of your system, that is a guarantee.

There are similarities in the sonic signature between the Analog and the IV/V but not the Select. I am not denigrating the Analog (which personally, I think is one of my favorite DACs on the market regardless of price) or the IV/V, it's just that the Select II is a landmark product and shares nothing in common.
 
The Sandman said:
Saying a DAC doesn't sound digital only shows anti-digital bias - I've never heard anyone say an analog source was so good it didn't sound like analog. Digital has always had the potential to eclipse analog and it's only a question of exactly when this occurs. Previous generations of digital maybe didn't sound so good, but then again neither did early analog.
Click to expand...

Give me digital over analog any day.

The occasional clicks and pops, the little static here-and-there with vinyl. The tinkering with tone arm, cartridge, belt to get it right. Cleaning the records. Getting up to flip the record. No Thanks!

My digital set up sounds as good or better than any analog I’ve heard. And it’s convenience can’t be beat. I stay seated on my couch and change songs with an iPad.

Digital is the future of music. With high res FLAC, DSD, and MQA (if it’s lasts). Internet speeds keep increasing, and storage is cheap. No worries about my DSD files getting dusty on my NAS. I can’t see myself ever hooking my analog rig back up.


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