Ethernet switch box

Kingrex said:
Puma Cat, nice article. I did not know that was you. I read it today.

I just read the Audio Science review Mike posted the link too. An interesting point was made by the author and something I have found testing switches. The buffer is so large when you go and swap cables to change the switch, you are still listening to the original data from the first switch. The only way to really hear what a switch is doing is to stop the music. Close it out to kill the buffer which may be the entire song. Change the cables, then reload the song.

I have heard Ultrafast system many times. I have also come to appreciate UltraF has a golden ear. He catches subtle detail others miss. He was at my house one day with some toys to show me, and he was much quicker at identifying the changes than I was. But I did hear what he heard and in the end changed out a bunch of footers to a large benefit in my setup. What I am saying is, he is spot on when he tells you the EtherREGEN works. But it does not stop at a stock EtherREGEN. Your still leaving performance on the table. The Power Supply matters. The footers under the unit matter. The base the unit sits on matters. The cables tying the network together matter. It all matters if you want to get the best sound. But the EtherREGEN is a good start as a stand alone product. It will take away digital artifacts that make you cringe at times with digital.

Something to remember about digital, the sum whole of great digital is made up of many small applications that support each other.
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It s all in the ears of the listener.
 
Devg said:
Now you know why many times you hear arguments like "my CD player sounds better than my streaming setup" :S
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More than that, you are assuming that the streaming services are taking the same care at their end as you are at yours. IME, not likely.
 
Devg said:
It means the device is devoid of all hash/gremlins that comes as part of network connectivity - both physical (ground noise, etc) and from network protocol perspective. Ethernet phys are transformer coupled but somehow still noise gets in, so how do you deal with this at the physical aspect - one solution is to use fiber. The other comes from packet processing aspect that happens inside the device. A simple network event causes a ton of churn within which is very detrimental to sound. Segregating and isolating network at different levels (routers, switches, protocol configuration, playback software, OS optimization, coalescing, core isolation, etc) is the key to get good digital audio for streaming devices, more so than an expensive use of USB cable.
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I don't feel the need to add digital dingleberries to my network to chase after the ghosts of "hash/gremlins" that I can't hear. Funny how people can convince other people they need to spend money on solutions in search of problems. This is another 'don't believe your ears' fairy tale that claims that even though your system is dead drop quiet, you have hash and gremlins running amok in your network and they just robbed the digital goodness store at 5th and Market St.
 
rbbert said:
More than that, you are assuming that the streaming services are taking the same care at their end as you are at yours. IME, not likely.
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How many audiophile switches do you think Tidal and Quobuz are running?
 
Kingrex said:
Your not getting everything out of your digital you could be. Your digital backbone is not as good as it could be. Its solid. It sounds well done. But is could be better.
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That's hilarious, especially coming from you.
 
You guys have made a good point for not streaming, although many users enjoy streaming. Therefore to each his/her own! I do not stream because I am so much worried about my network, etc. I figure whatever can happen to the signal has long since happened to it before it actually reaches my house. I don't stream because I prefer to have the digital part of my music library stored local on my server. I also do not want my streaming to take up bandwidth from other devices and users on my network, my wife, etc.

Also, I see people making an argument for optical versus ethernet. Ok, I see what you are trying to say except one major aspect. This is converting the signal to optical to be transmitted as light streams and then converting it back to electronic impulses (if I termed it correctly?) on the receiving end. I personal believe that any possible gains transmitting the data may be lost in the converting stages, unless you are sending your signal great distances (in your house, no matter how big your home is you are not sending it great distances).
 
Randy Myers said:
You guys have made a good point for not streaming, although many users enjoy streaming. Therefore to each his/her own! I do not stream because I am so much worried about my network, etc. I figure whatever can happen to the signal has long since happened to it before it actually reaches my house. I don't stream because I prefer to have the digital part of my music library stored local on my server. I also do not want my streaming to take up bandwidth from other devices and users on my network, my wife, etc.

Also, I see people making an argument for optical versus ethernet. Ok, I see what you are trying to say except one major aspect. This is converting the signal to optical to be transmitted as light streams and then converting it back to electronic impulses (if I termed it correctly?) on the receiving end. I personal believe that any possible gains transmitting the data may be lost in the converting stages, unless you are sending your signal great distances (in your house, no matter home big it is you are not sending it great distances).
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And we haven't even mentioned hot rod clocks. Let's face it, there are audiophiles who love adding as many devices as they can to their streaming network and that doesn't include power cords designed for digital gear because digital gear needs different power from your wall outlets, linear power supplies to replace all wall warts, and very expensive audiophile grade Ethernet cables. It's a deep digital rabbit hole that some audiophiles delight in exploring. Nothing wrong with that of course, that's what makes this hobby interesting. And if your digital really is improved sonically because of all the digital dingleberries you added to your digital rig, that's icing on the digital cake.
 
I'm not sure replacing a SMPS with a LPS qualifies as adding a dingleberry. I can't speak for all applications, but replacing the the SMPS in my Oppo 205 with a dedicated LPS (and not a particularly expensive one, much cheaper than most audiophile AC cords) resulted in a substantial improvement, easily noticeable because I have 2 and was able to directly compare the LPS to the SMPS. Quickly and reliably audible with blind A/B testing.

People building their own music servers also notice this phenomenon (as do manufacturers). Whether it applies to every component using a SMPS I couldn't say.
 
rbbert said:
I'm not sure replacing a SMPS with a LPS qualifies as adding a dingleberry. I can't speak for all applications, but replacing the the SMPS in my Oppo 205 with a dedicated LPS (and not a particularly expensive one, much cheaper than most audiophile AC cords) resulted in a substantial improvement, easily noticeable because I have 2 and was able to directly compare the LPS to the SMPS. Quickly and reliably audible with blind A/B testing.

People building their own music servers also notice this phenomenon (as do manufacturers). Whether it applies to every component using a SMPS I couldn't say.
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I think what MEP means, is the horde of USB, Ethernet switch boxes, fancy cables, network isolators JItter fixers for these two items etc.. not SMPS or LPS. But ! of course I could be wrong.

I do know the Berkley Alpha USB device made a different when I used it. BUt its my ears.
 
CPP said:
I think what MEP means, is the horde of USB, Ethernet switch boxes, fancy cables and idolators for these two items etc.. not SMPS or LPS.
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Perhaps, but he specifically mentioned replacing SMPS with LPS (or not, actually)
 
I do think he was referring to replacing SMPS with LPS as unnecessary, and I was responding with my opinion and experience for only a couple of specific and limited situations
 
rbbert said:
More than that, you are assuming that the streaming services are taking the same care at their end as you are at yours. IME, not likely.
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Not sure if I assumed that. The answer is not "not likely" but definitely NO. Same goes with the power company and power lines - they both are very analogous.
 
I would then postulate that no matter what one does at the receiving end to optimize the signal, streaming will never equal the quality of the same recording not streamed (i.e., played from CD, hi-res file, or whatever the source of the stream). As you say, many have reported this to be their experience.

I don’t think it is at all analogous to what happens with AC power.
 
mep said:
I don't feel the need to add digital dingleberries to my network to chase after the ghosts of "hash/gremlins" that I can't hear. Funny how people can convince other people they need to spend money on solutions in search of problems. This is another 'don't believe your ears' fairy tale that claims that even though your system is dead drop quiet, you have hash and gremlins running amok in your network and they just robbed the digital goodness store at 5th and Market St.
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Fine with me and I don't really care. I am not trying to convince anybody, except documenting some facts which are very misleading, for example one really can't hear noise directly but its manifestation. Some of the etherRegen claims may be just bogus but that doesn't mean its not helping the network at all. It does and so does some other non-audiophile switches as well (I won't name names).

Bits are bits, right ? Why on earth do you think manufactures are building high-end music servers ? If not all but some are indeed tackling some of the very nastiness of digital tit-bits and just not for some gimmicks.

Unfortunately, no one (I literally mean no one) has ever found a way to measure anything or prove anything. Being an engineer dealing with extreme high-speed data myself in my professional life, I was a naysayer (just like many of us), until I started to use some of my own and it all started just as a DIY experiment. I know very well the concept of "searching of a problem for a solution that doesn't exist" and hence I dwindle down the road with extreme caution :)
 
Randy Myers said:
Also, I see people making an argument for optical versus ethernet. Ok, I see what you are trying to say except one major aspect. This is converting the signal to optical to be transmitted as light streams and then converting it back to electronic impulses (if I termed it correctly?) on the receiving end. I personal believe that any possible gains transmitting the data may be lost in the converting stages, unless you are sending your signal great distances (in your house, no matter how big your home is you are not sending it great distances).
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Unfortunately what you personally believe is incorrect. Nothing is lost in converting stages - they are extremely fast and handled at line rates. One thing that can possibly effect the SQ is the transmitted noise from the convertor chip (they are indeed high speed intefaces) but that can be handled with good design, like eR or Sonore Optical Module.
 
Devg said:
Unfortunately what you personally believe is incorrect. Nothing is lost in converting stages - they are extremely fast and handled at line rates. One thing that can possibly effect the SQ is the transmitted noise from the convertor chip (they are indeed high speed intefaces) but that can be handled with good design, like eR or Sonore Optical Module.
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Agreed. Good post, Dev.
 
rbbert said:
I would then postulate that no matter what one does at the receiving end to optimize the signal, streaming will never equal the quality of the same recording not streamed (i.e., played from CD, hi-res file, or whatever the source of the stream). As you say, many have reported this to be their experience.
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Streaming can equal or even exceed a good CD player. Just buy the Taiko extreme and couple of PF modded Melco switches :)

rbbert said:
I don’t think it is at all analogous to what happens with AC power.
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Why not ? Isn't last couple of stretches of the marathon that matter in both the cases ? :rolleyes:
 
Devg said:
Streaming can equal or even exceed a good CD player. Just buy the Taiko extreme and couple of PF modded Melco switches :)
Why not ? Isn't last couple of stretches of the marathon that matter in both the cases ? :rolleyes:
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To the latter, one is in the audio signal line, one isn’t. That doesn’t necessarily mean each isn’t important, only that they aren’t very analogous.

To the first, $40-$50k to “beat” how expensive a CD player? And how about a 24/192 or DSD128 file through a “modest” DAC (Lampi, MSB, whatever)?
 
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