Dynaudio Contour 60

[Shadowfax]

While I agree that speakers are mechanical and that they could potentially change when they are very first put into use, I think it’s likely that that change would occur quickly and over a short period of use. I also would think those changes would be relatively subtle. People are claiming hundreds of hours of use is required to achieve breakin. Furthermore they are claiming they can hear the speaker go through periods of improvement, then degradation, then more improvement and eventual perfection. In other words, wild swings in sound quality. None of that makes a lot of sense to me. I will not call that the dumbest theory ever, your words, but I will say it seems to contradict Dynaudios published position on break in which prescribes only 30 hours of breakin time. They also say nothing about wild swings in sound quality. They seem to indicate subtle improvements. Given their decades of experience, world class audio engineers, state of the art lab equipment and testing facility, I tend to feel that those stating that break in is so very long and complicated may be misguided. I have been in this hobby a very long time and I have found it wise to be aware that we are not infallible when it comes to assessing changes in sound quality. People engaged in this hobby that do not possess some level of skepticism in this way may find themselves the owners of expensive products that have little or no value.

Have you ever purchased a new pair of Dynaudio speakers? I have, more than once. It's not imagination, it is reality that they change in SQ in the early stages. But, when they get where they need to be, they are super speakers, any price point you want to pick.

I have to agree with Mr Peabody, if I thought they still sounded like they did when I first set them up, I would have sold them to someone who believes otherwise, like yourself.

This is not to say that "Every" speaker needs the same time, but with Dyns, it is pretty universally known and accepted.

 

[jaxwired]

Have you ever purchased a new pair of Dynaudio speakers? I have, more than once. It's not imagination, it is reality that they change in SQ in the early stages. But, when they get where they need to be, they are super speakers, any price point you want to pick.

I have to agree with Mr Peabody, if I thought they still sounded like they did when I first set them up, I would have sold them to someone who believes otherwise, like yourself.

This is not to say that "Every" speaker needs the same time, but with Dyns, it is pretty universally known and accepted.

I've purchased the following Dynaudios brand new: Excite X16, Contour S1.4, Focus 340, Confidence C1, Special 25, Excite 34.

I agree that many Dynaudio owners believe in long break in. But I can't say it's universally accepted. I do not believe that Dynaudio themselves accept it. If they did, I would imagine they would publicize it a bit more as the negative experience that unsuspecting buyers might encounter would be a PR problem for them. If Dynaudio believed that their speakers had poor sound quality out of the box and that the poor quality would remain for hundreds of hours, they would get out in front of that and make sure new buyers were well informed and prepared for this. Otherwise, sales would suffer.

As I have said, I am not disputing that break in occurs. I am just disputing the severity and length of the process. However, I will say, I could be wrong. I might even be wrong about my other conclusions. Might be time to buy more cats.

 

[kzhtoo]

Better than the alternative, sitting there thinking my ears are infallible and buying snake oil left and right. Besides, I’m not saying I know everything about acoustic science, I‘m merely saying that applying common sense and listening to the manufacturers opinions and the experts in the field might be a better approach than simply assessing all sound quality independently using nothing but my own analysis. That leads to a person becoming a Patsy. I won’t bother to list some of the incredibly ridiculous Audiophile products that have been produced and purchased by Audiophiles, as we all know they exist.

i’ll give you an example, my stereo absolutely sounds significantly better after I’ve had a couple of alcoholic drinks. I am positive that the alcohol does not somehow improve the acoustics in my room or the quality of sound produced by my system. If I noticed my system always sounded better when my cat was in the room I would not buy more cats.

I guess trusting one’s own ears is never part of common sense. Also, alcohol is a bad example, it’s a universally known fact that alcohol impairs hearing.

 

[dznutz]

I have owned quite a few speakers in my time, all purchased brand new. I have absolutely noticed sonic improvements with time and use but I have never experienced something negative in between. This includes C1's, Contour 60's and now Confidence 30's. Perhaps Im not listening hard enough??? lol

 

[Mr Peabody]

I agree, new speakers have sounded decent out of the box but definitely better after break in. If something sounded "negative or broken then there must been an issue.

I actually bought my current 4367's from a guy who don't believe in break in. He bought them and listened to them, boxed them up. I snapped them up and they are marvelous after a few hundred hours. The first speaker I broke in where the woofer sound wasn't linear during break in. Meaning the sound did get somewhat more sort of bloated before settling in and becoming what I consider very accurate. The Dyn's bass was just very restrained and seemed to linearly free up.

I Dynaudio really put into print a 30 hour break in, that, would have me puzzled. I'd like to see the Dyn that only took 30 hours out of the box.

I have owned quite a few speakers in my time, all purchased brand new. I have absolutely noticed sonic improvements with time and use but I have never experienced something negative in between. This includes C1's, Contour 60's and now Confidence 30's. Perhaps Im not listening hard enough??? lol

 

[david rossmann]

I Dynaudio really put into print a 30 hour break in, that, would have me puzzled. I'd like to see the Dyn that only took 30 hours out of the box.

Indeed, on paper Dynaudio advises a undifined but "supposed to be" small amount of break-in hours. Dynaudio support says or let's you intend about 30 hours. The dealer, before closing the deal says nothing, after closing the deal states 500 hours. If then you go back to the dynadio support asking why the dealers break in is 12 times bigger as the official dinaudios one, evades your question! If you make the question many many times even the dynadio support agrees that the break in time is 500 hours. I have in my mailbox a dynaudio support mail which states 500 hours break in! It was hard but i got it.

Try it out. Call a dealer in US or Europe and simulate your interest in a 10 k purchase. Avoid avery question regarding break in. You will notice that the dealer will not talk about this topic spontaneously. Then call him back and tell him you read in many forums about the break in issue and that you are worried that your purchase will not sound as it should out of the box. Do not talk about the 500 hours, just let him speak. Hi will not say any clear amount of hours but, as the dynaudio official position, hi will let you believe that after one week it will sound as it should. Ask for the banking coordinates in order to close the deal. Then call him back the day after and ask him about the 500 hours break in your are reading in many forums... Enjoy.
I did the test several times when i had the problem with my contours.

I don't care about the break in true/false thing. I care that there are two completely different positions regarding this topic between pre and after-sales.
That is simply commercially dishonest, incorrect, false advertising.
Every audio enthusiast should fight for honest and clear product advertising.

 

[jaxwired]

Here’s a link to a dynaudio page stating 30 hours of break in: https://www.dynaudio.com/dynaudio-academy/2017/august/how-to-set-up-your-speakers

David Rossmann, My guess is that no one at Dynaudio HQ believes that break-in takes hundreds of hours. I doubt very many dealers believe this either. However if a customer can change from an unhappy customer to a happy one by waiting 500 hours, dealers are happy to quietly let that play out. Imagine if Walmart could tell everyone making a return, “just go home and wait 500 hours and then it should be much better”. They would jump right on that bandwagon.

 

[david rossmann]

Here’s a link to a dynaudio page stating 30 hours of break in: https://www.dynaudio.com/dynaudio-academy/2017/august/how-to-set-up-your-speakers

David Rossmann, My guess is that no one at Dynaudio HQ believes that break-in takes hundreds of hours. I doubt very many dealers believe this either. However if a customer can change from an unhappy customer to a happy one by waiting 500 hours, dealers are happy to quietly let that play out. Imagine if Walmart could tell everyone making a return, “just go home and wait 500 hours and then it should be much better”. They would jump right on that bandwagon.

In the contour 60 online manual it states some weeks. And i could show you my dealers mail stating 500 hours and i could show you a Dynaudio mail stating 450-500 hours.

It's not about beliving or not...it's about statements. And i dont care if they belive or not to their statements. To me they said 500 hours just a few seconds after i complained about the c60 sound quality and that is different from the amount they suggest in their marketing material. That is the problem from my point of view.

 

[Puma Cat]

Wow, interesting thread. Going to throw my 2 cents out there since it's somewhat out of line with the general consensus. I personally put zero stock in long periods of speaker "break in". While I can believe that a brand new speaker might change ever so slightly I would expect that the change would be extremely small, that the change would occur during the first couple hours of playback, and that the change is likely acoustically un-measurable. The idea that it takes hundreds of hours for a speaker to sound as intended by the designers seems highly improbable. That would mean that every new design that was R&D'd would have to undergo a month or two of "break in" before it could be tested. Additionally, the designers would have to account for this change in sound over time which would be nearly impossible. And, if true, how would the designers even know when "break in" was complete?

My guess would be that anyone that is switching speakers after more than a decade with the same speaker (as in the OP's case) would likely find any speaker a shock to the system. This would happen regardless of whether the speaker was superior simply because someone like this would be so very used to their old speaker. I also believe that people tend to like more what they are used to hearing. It is the reason why songs we hear more often become more popular. The more we hear them, the more we tend to like them (in general). The is likely true of speakers to. The longer you live with one, the more you tend to think of it as "sounding right". Not always, but in general I think this trend would hold true.

Just my opinion, could be wrong...

Yes, respectfully, you're incorrect on this point. Just ask Denny at GR Research (watch the YT video I linked) to or talk to the engineers at Dynaudio. They do know what they are talking about.

 

[david rossmann]

Imagine if Walmart could tell everyone making a return, “just go home and wait 500 hours and then it should be much better”. They would jump right on that bandwagon.

And if walmart can't effort this rethoric, why dynaudio yes and why noone seriously complains?

 

[Puma Cat]

With respect to my Magicos you're dead wrong, jax. Break-in was not linear. Went from OK to really bloated to OK to better to great. Biggest change was over the first 250 hours or so. Magico understands break-in. They, like others, just can't bear the cost/time/facilities of breaking in large numbers of speakers simultaneously without delivery delays and a large increase in price. As for me just getting used to a compromised sound after a month or two and liking it, you're probably assuming the changes during break-in were not substantial. They were - big time. I'm not saying all speakers are like mine. This was just my experience.

Your experience with your Magicos is very consistent with the experience of breaking in Dynaudios.

 

[Puma Cat]

Understood and I can respect that you are genuinely describing what you experienced. It just seems very odd to me that a speaker can go from a 4 to a 10 in sound quality due to break in. Ultimately very little is changing in a physical way that would account for huge swings in sound quality.

No, that is simply not true, Jax. There is an actual physical transformation of the drivers, the crossover and internal wiring that occurs. Watch the YT video with Danny at GR Research I linked to above.

 

[david rossmann]

Imagine if Walmart could tell everyone making a return, “just go home and wait 500 hours and then it should be much better”. They would jump right on that bandwagon.

And if walmart can't effort this rethoric, why dynaudio yes and why noone seriously complains?

 

[jaxwired]

Well, thanks all for a fun spirited discussion. Hopefully no one has been offended.

 

[Puma Cat]

And if walmart can't effort this rethoric, why dynaudio yes and why noone seriously complains?

Dynaudio and their dealers, is very open about the time it takes to run in their speakers. I've personally run in 3 pairs of Dyns or new Dynaudio drivers, including when I installed Esotar tweeters in my Contour S3.4s.

Older models take a minimum of 300 hours; the Special 40s take 450 hours. This is well documented. If Dyn says it takes 500 hours, you can take it to the bank. The problem is, is that they can intially sound great, then start to sound really bad in the middle phase of running them in. Some owners, thinking they will never get better, will sell them at this point. This is a mistake because once they get to 500 hours, they are glorious.
Are you tracking with data the hours you are playing the speakers?

Also, most respect, David, we've been over and over this ground now for quite some time, I'm not sure its of any added value for us to keep repeating the same thing we've been telling you since you got these in the Autumn of 2019.

 

[david rossmann]

Dynaudio and their dealers, is very open about the time it takes to run in their speakers. I've personally run in 3 pairs of Dyns or new Dynaudio drivers, including when I installed Esotar tweeters in my Contour S3.4s.

Older models take a minimum of 300 hours; the Special 40s take 450 hours. This is well documented. If Dyn says it takes 500 hours, you can take it to the bank. The problem is, is that they can intially sound great, then start to sound really bad in the middle phase of running them in. Some owners, thinking they will never get better, will sell them at this point. This is a mistake because once they get to 500 hours, they are glorious.
Are you tracking with data the hours you are playing the speakers?

Also, most respect, David, we've been over and over this ground now for quite some time, I'm not sure its of any added value for us to keep repeating the same thing we've been telling you since you got these in the Autumn of 2019.

I just let them play 24h/day so in 10 more days they have to be ready. I'm courious.
But one question...still the same... why if everyone exprerience 300 hours minimum break in dynaudio still advises 30 hours? Do you think this is honest? You quoted my question but you didn't answered to it. Why whalmart no and Dynaudio yes?

 

[david rossmann]

since more than a month I have completed 500 break-in hours. I waited a month to write my impressionas in order to listen widely to the new speakers that Dynaudio sent me. To be precise, this is not a new set of speakers but the same that I had before but revised by Dynaudio.
From the start, with the revised speakers, the sound was better than the previous Contour 60. The ridiculously boomy bass left the scene. The timbre has improved a lot. The impression of listening to a wooden box making sounds has disappeared. In short, sound rendering is much better than before. Remember that my little 1000 euro Genelecs sounded more captivating and realistic than my first pair of Contour 60s. Now the Contour 60s sound better than the Genelec. But not too much. And the new Contour 60 still doesn't sound as good as my 20-year-old Contour 3.3. Ah ... I don't think I'm influenced by the long ownership of Contour 3.3 ... I've only owned them for two years. However, the sound stage of the Contour 3.3 is much better defined, wider and deeper. It is simply easy to locate each instrument on stage. It is not the same with Contour 60. The sound stage is blurred. I moved them to every possible position in my 70m2 music room. However, the timbre of the Contour 3.3 is more natural and realistic than that of the Contour 60, hands down. I have a baby Bluthner grand piano in the same room, so it is very easy for me to compare the timbre of the two Contours with the piano itself. But the Contour 60 distort less the sound at very high volumes. The Contour 3.3 cannot play very loud without distortion. But Contour 3.3 sounds wonderfully at 1 to 1 volume. I can easily play Contour 3.3 at the same volume as a jazz quartet in my room. Or at the volume of an orchestra it sounds if you are in the 5th or 6th row. This is enough for me. So to anyone looking for a Contour 60 or similar style speaker, I can only recommend to look for a used 1500-1600 euro Contour 3.3 first and giving them an opportunity. They are much easier to place in the room, they are smaller and much more elegant and invisible in your room, the sound stage is simply wonderful, the timbre is simply perfect, sparkling but not fatiguing highs, wonderful voices, deep and controlled bass. I had the opportunity to compare them with a pair of 10,000 euro focal lengths and widely with the Contour 60. Hands down the Contour 3.3. In fact, I'm going to sell Contour 60 and keep 3.3. Sorry Dynaudio, the guy who designed the Contour 3.3 had better ears than the one who designed the Contour 60, that's all.

 

[dznutz]

Be very careful of comparing a recorded piano to a live piano. As you have no idea where the mic was placed during the recording and the recorded sound can be drastically different from your live listening session. Heck, you don’t even know what kind of piano it was, surely its not the same as your own or tuned the same.

 

[Mike]

since more than a month I have completed 500 break-in hours. I waited a month to write my impressionas in order to listen widely to the new speakers that Dynaudio sent me. To be precise, this is not a new set of speakers but the same that I had before but revised by Dynaudio.
From the start, with the revised speakers, the sound was better than the previous Contour 60. The ridiculously boomy bass left the scene. The timbre has improved a lot. The impression of listening to a wooden box making sounds has disappeared. In short, sound rendering is much better than before. Remember that my little 1000 euro Genelecs sounded more captivating and realistic than my first pair of Contour 60s. Now the Contour 60s sound better than the Genelec. But not too much. And the new Contour 60 still doesn't sound as good as my 20-year-old Contour 3.3. Ah ... I don't think I'm influenced by the long ownership of Contour 3.3 ... I've only owned them for two years. However, the sound stage of the Contour 3.3 is much better defined, wider and deeper. It is simply easy to locate each instrument on stage. It is not the same with Contour 60. The sound stage is blurred. I moved them to every possible position in my 70m2 music room. However, the timbre of the Contour 3.3 is more natural and realistic than that of the Contour 60, hands down. I have a baby Bluthner grand piano in the same room, so it is very easy for me to compare the timbre of the two Contours with the piano itself. But the Contour 60 distort less the sound at very high volumes. The Contour 3.3 cannot play very loud without distortion. But Contour 3.3 sounds wonderfully at 1 to 1 volume. I can easily play Contour 3.3 at the same volume as a jazz quartet in my room. Or at the volume of an orchestra it sounds if you are in the 5th or 6th row. This is enough for me. So to anyone looking for a Contour 60 or similar style speaker, I can only recommend to look for a used 1500-1600 euro Contour 3.3 first and giving them an opportunity. They are much easier to place in the room, they are smaller and much more elegant and invisible in your room, the sound stage is simply wonderful, the timbre is simply perfect, sparkling but not fatiguing highs, wonderful voices, deep and controlled bass. I had the opportunity to compare them with a pair of 10,000 euro focal lengths and widely with the Contour 60. Hands down the Contour 3.3. In fact, I'm going to sell Contour 60 and keep 3.3. Sorry Dynaudio, the guy who designed the Contour 3.3 had better ears than the one who designed the Contour 60, that's all.

So the new Dyn’s are stinkers? I haven’t changed my mind since hearing them all at Munich 2019. Pass for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[steve59]

Sorry to hear that your upgrade didn't pan out so it goes tho'. Inflation? Idk but trying to upgrade from a pair of speakers that were $3-4000. 25 years ago is going to cost 5 times that now. I liked the C60 better than the other speakers in their price range. Home demos are so important when buying new.