Paul79 made the same suggestion on Whatsbest. It sounds promising. However, I am loathe to invest $ in the Aries. I am still actively considering a totaldac server. The rate of change with "computers" always gives me pause.
DSD versus PCM - Is DSD really better or is it a 'myth'
- Thread starter BlueFox
- Start date
Paul79 made the same suggestion on Whatsbest. It sounds promising. However, I am loathe to invest $ in the Aries. I am still actively considering a totaldac server. The rate of change with "computers" always gives me pause.
Stop being a chicken and answer the question.
Mike, any observations on PCM/digital +/- Entreq grounding?
Mike Lavigne
Member
I've not yet even tried to investigate that.
part of the reason is that the Trinity does not have any dormant RCA outputs (XLR only) to attach the Entreq Eartha Apollo cables to. it does have the Tripoint Troy groundpost but i'll need to figure out a way to attach it there. I may need different cables. but it will be awhile before I even get around to giving it any brain space.
Hmmm. I thought Entreq had both options for grounding. It should be interesting either way.....
Mike Lavigne
Member
it does, and is 'said' to work as chassis grounding as well as signal path grounding.
I need different cables or somehow modify the ones I have.
GaryProtein
New member
It's NOT the medium or the format, it's the MASTER.
bzr
Active member
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
- Messages
- 2,033
Thats a given, but, which master recording sounds better, the dsd or the pcm one, "to your ears", or can't you hear the difference?
BlueFox
New member
FlexibleAudio
Member
Yep.
I agree with you and AJ. People making absolute claims just sound silly in this game.
Mike Lavigne
Member
no; whether we like it or not if we pay very close attention there is a clear hierarchy to formats. but I agree that personal taste enters into it. but live with enough cross section of the formats and preferences get established.
others equating preferences = absolutes is their problem with semantics. that's not the meaning intended.....but trolls have to do their trolling and polarizing.
Relatively small $$$. €345 plus shipping and LPSUs keep their value well, for resale. This amount wont even cover shipping on the TD server, so not likely an issue, though I refuse to speak for anyones pocket. Small risk to see if you can maxx out the Aries while waiting for the Computer dust to settle. Get a Regen (and a couple Jitterbugs too while you are at it too, so that know that you threw everything possible at it.
In a year or 2 you can step up to the Server du jour.
There are at least 4 albums that have been simultaneously mastered in DSD and hiRez PCM. Massimo on the piano is one. Take a listen to those on your favourite DSD and PCM playback chain and see if you like any one better than the other...
GaryProtein
New member
Just to be clear, I was referring to the quality of the "master" -- the final assembly of the recorded performance that they use to make the disk, download file, 15 ips tape or whatever that they sell to the consumer.
FlexibleAudio
Member
Well Mike I will try to be respectful here because I do respect your work and your posts but you have me scratching my head with that one.
Haven't you sorta reduced yourself to the trolls by making such a polarizing statement?
Maybe I read AJ's posts wrong but what I read focussed on his issue that the statement made about tapes was an absolute and not a preference. It seams like your example is backwards. Are you saying that when someone makes an absolute statement like "tape is better" that the reader is to presume the writer was expressing a preference and not an absolute? What if the writer was indeed expressing an absolute? In your world how is that discerned?
In addition, you confuse me by arguing the "tape is better" statement was a preference and then continue to argue one format is better absolutely (i.e., your reference to a "clear hierarchy").
Even if I take your point about a larger population preferring one format to another, that does not create an absolute. If more people prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla does that make chocolate better? I think there a lot of people paying very "close attention" that simply disagree with your supposition. Does that make them wrong? I stand by my original comment. To me such talk just sounds silly. An objective measure of a subjective dimension is folly.
I agree with Mike. If I compare the same recording on tape vs vinyl vs digital, even DSD, to me and anyone who has heard the comparison, agrees, tape just sounds better.
Take for example, Jacintha, Here's to Ben. I have it in every format. To my ears, the tape sounds the absolute best, and certainly the most natural. But you know what, the DSD is DAMN close. Damn close. The vinyl has a certain magic about it as well. The PCM - to my ears - gets the short end of the stick.
I'm sure we can all find examples where the DSD may sound the best or the PCM might sound the best, but it's my experience, where I've been able to compare multiple formats, tape is king.
But tape is a PITA, expensive and almost impossible to find any kind of volume of albums.
To me, DSD gets me damn close and I can use my iPad to control my Aurender and not even leave the chair!
Final thought: unless you have the ability, in your own system, to compare tape vs vinyl vs DSD vs PCM, you really shouldn't be making "troll" statements. I remember a certain FlexibleAudio (who isn't seeming very Flexible at the moment), bark and bite at all the vinyl guys. He was convinced digital was king. Now he has heard and experienced vinyl and it's all the rage for him (and rightly so). If you think vinyl is good, don't listen to tape.
Put your system together, start listening, tell us what YOU hear and for heavens sake, stop picking fights on every topic. You don't even have your system up and running, let alone these four sources to compare. Geesh.
Take for example, Jacintha, Here's to Ben. I have it in every format. To my ears, the tape sounds the absolute best, and certainly the most natural. But you know what, the DSD is DAMN close. Damn close. The vinyl has a certain magic about it as well. The PCM - to my ears - gets the short end of the stick.
I'm sure we can all find examples where the DSD may sound the best or the PCM might sound the best, but it's my experience, where I've been able to compare multiple formats, tape is king.
But tape is a PITA, expensive and almost impossible to find any kind of volume of albums.
To me, DSD gets me damn close and I can use my iPad to control my Aurender and not even leave the chair!
Final thought: unless you have the ability, in your own system, to compare tape vs vinyl vs DSD vs PCM, you really shouldn't be making "troll" statements. I remember a certain FlexibleAudio (who isn't seeming very Flexible at the moment), bark and bite at all the vinyl guys. He was convinced digital was king. Now he has heard and experienced vinyl and it's all the rage for him (and rightly so). If you think vinyl is good, don't listen to tape.
Put your system together, start listening, tell us what YOU hear and for heavens sake, stop picking fights on every topic. You don't even have your system up and running, let alone these four sources to compare. Geesh.
AJ Soundfield
Well-known member
Mike, you've never heard tape that sounded worse than the digital or vinyl version? Ever?
Not of the 50 or so tapes I have. Come listen for yourself. Could they make a tape sound worse than DSD? Sure!
No one is arguing the impossible, but we are stating findings based on actual experience. Tape sounds best, but it's a huge PITA and limited.
There aren't a lot of folks here besides myself, Myles, Mike, Dan, Jock and a few others that have all four sources. We can argue all day, but unless you have the four sources in your system and the same recordings to compare, it's a mute point.
AJ Soundfield
Well-known member
There's about a zillion recordings out there, that's a pretty small sample size...
I've heard plenty tape over my lifetime, it's not exactly a new format.
Now you're right, I don't currently own any form of tape, be that open reel, cassette or 8-track.
I think I may have a VCR buried somewhere.:lol:
I have a better idea. How about we go to the studio and direct compare the tape vs digital masters that were recorded simultaneously. Same feeds. I already have. You game?
By the exact same token, could they make digital (or vinyl) sound worse than tape....yep. IOW, it's not the format per se....
Moot.
We all have our preferences.
cheers,
AJ