DSD, The last thing we need....

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Mark Jones

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Is another damn format, what's wrong with us audiophiles. It's new I gotta have it.

Now I can't say the info in the following link is correct as I am no digital engineering guru, far from it. But based on hearing similar stuff from many experts in the industry, I think it is a good read.

Sorry if this is old news.

John Siau: Benchmark Audio Guru | Real HD-Audio
 
It is true that despite the many vocal proponents of DSD that we have on this (and other) forum, not all audiophiles prefer DSD to hires PCM, just as not all prefer LP's to hires digital. It's often kind of difficult to tell by numbers of posts, though...
 
Problem is how many have heard "real" DSD and at what speed eg. DSD, 2X DSD or 4X DSD? And how many have truly compared both in the their own systems?
 
Not many i'd guess.

How much material is really recorded in DSD to start with? Some production houses are honest and will tell you that the DSD stereo-layer contains 24bit master sources converted to DSD usually on a Meitner DAC. Most however appear silent on the issue and so one possible assumption is the recording is really PCM before quantizing to DSD.

2L (Norway) do a nice job. Possible to pick up packages / files from them which contain CD/SACD and Blu Ray formats and DXD, DSD64, DSD128. They like DXD (4 x DSD) and often record at source in both 1 bit DSD and multi-bit PCM.

Most i'd proffer is converted somewhere in the chain unless it's from an an analog master (excepting if they're remixing in PCM).

DXD is PCM. 24/358.2
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_eXtreme_Definition
 
Problem is how many have heard "real" DSD and at what speed eg. DSD, 2X DSD or 4X DSD? And how many have truly compared both in the their own systems?
I'm pretty sure both John and Marc (from the article) have heard all those formats, and possibly in some cases of the same recordings. As an aside, it was interesting to hear Marc at THE Show discuss the business aspect of being a small hires recording label, in this case hawking his own products in the Marketplace there.
 
I'm pretty sure both John and Marc (from the article) have heard all those formats, and possibly in some cases of the same recordings. As an aside, it was interesting to hear Marc at THE Show discuss the business aspect of being a small hires recording label, in this case hawking his own products in the Marketplace there.

I was referring to audiophiles and commercial products.

As far Benchmark goes, they are kinda the mavericks out there.
 
I couldn't disagree more with the premise of this thread. While there is no universal consensus on whether DSD sounds better than PCM, since when do we ever have consensus on anything in this wacky hobby? The answer: never. However, I'm seeing more and more people talk about how they like DSD and prefer it over PCM and I certainly fall into that camp as well. When all of the chips have fallen and the dust has settled, it might come down to something as simple as people who detest analog and only listen to digital prefer PCM over DSD and people who listen to both analog and digital prefer DSD because it sounds the most like analog of any current digital format.

Does DSD sound as good as analog either in LP format or tape? No, it doesn't. There is still a gap in sound quality in my opinion. The good news is that with DSD, you can let yourself relax and listen to music for prolonged periods of time and enjoy it. I have never found this to be true with PCM regardless of sampling rate and bit depth. Even though PCM has what I call 'wowie zowie' bass, it still manages to sound too thin and sharp over the long term to my ears. I can only take it so long (and not real long) before I feel compelled to get up and put on an LP so I can relax and float into the music.

So, instead of saying DSD is "The last thing we need", I would say that it's exactly what digital needs in order to sound less artificial, painful, thin, bright, and more like real live music. And I say all of this knowing there are some people who will swear that MP3s sound just like a master tape and PCM sounds even better than a master tape and the worst sounding digital sounds better than the best sounding analog. Why? Because we don't hear the same, we love to argue, and we seldom agree on anything.
 
Why Bob, I'm always amazed at the profoundness of the statements you make.

Why not Mark, it's peaceful, and it is after all the joy of our hobby.

By the way, the thread's title is funny, because DSD is a very welcome addition, and it has been for few years now.
- With the latest Oppo players you can "scream" (stream) it directly from the USB port (direct DSD download). Personally I love that, a whole lot.
 
DSD2x sounds superb. Nuff said.

Agreed. I've tested DSD2x on the new Lumin S1 and used files recorded in double DSD (see Blue Coast Records) and others taken direct from master tape to double DSD. The results were impressive.

But the volume of DSD2x recordings is very very small. Only a handful and many of those have their source as the main tape or PCM. So, kind of pointless if PCM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I couldn't disagree more with the premise of this thread. While there is no universal consensus on whether DSD sounds better than PCM, since when do we ever have consensus on anything in this wacky hobby? The answer: never. However, I'm seeing more and more people talk about how they like DSD and prefer it over PCM and I certainly fall into that camp as well. When all of the chips have fallen and the dust has settled, it might come down to something as simple as people who detest analog and only listen to digital prefer PCM over DSD and people who listen to both analog and digital prefer DSD because it sounds the most like analog of any current digital format.

Does DSD sound as good as analog either in LP format or tape? No, it doesn't. There is still a gap in sound quality in my opinion. The good news is that with DSD, you can let yourself relax and listen to music for prolonged periods of time and enjoy it. I have never found this to be true with PCM regardless of sampling rate and bit depth. Even though PCM has what I call 'wowie zowie' bass, it still manages to sound too thin and sharp over the long term to my ears. I can only take it so long (and not real long) before I feel compelled to get up and put on an LP so I can relax and float into the music.

So, instead of saying DSD is "The last thing we need", I would say that it's exactly what digital needs in order to sound less artificial, painful, thin, bright, and more like real live music. And I say all of this knowing there are some people who will swear that MP3s sound just like a master tape and PCM sounds even better than a master tape and the worst sounding digital sounds better than the best sounding analog. Why? Because we don't hear the same, we love to argue, and we seldom agree on anything.
Great post! I agree that well recorded DSD when properly decoded sounds more like analog than PCM and is a step in the right direction for music lovers.
 
Great post! I agree that well recorded DSD when properly decoded sounds more like analog than PCM and is a step in the right direction for music lovers.
or not...

Up to this point in time (15 yrs into the SACD era) I can't say I've noticed (for me) a clear preference for DSD vs. hires PCM
 
Most i'd proffer is converted somewhere in the chain unless it's from an an analog master (excepting if they're remixing in PCM).

DXD is PCM. 24/358.2
Digital eXtreme Definition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There's the mastering side that muddies the water (I like Acoustics Sounds as they generally are pretty clear where their files are cut from) but playback as well. Some DACs, like my CH Precision C1 and the TAD SACD player, convert DSD to PCM signals for playback.:dunno:
 
Agreed. I've tested DSD2x on the new Lumin S1 and used files recorded in double DSD (see Blue Coast Records) and others taken direct from master tape to double DSD. The results were impressive.

But the volume of DSD2x recordings is very very small. Only a handful and many of those have their source as the main tape or PCM. So, kind of pointless if PCM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
People are KORG-ing their Vinyl collections. Native DSD and a few other sites are just commencing selling stuff online from the Original DSD master files.
 
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