Drought conditions, what about desalination?

Bobvin said:
With RO, the tap water is pressed against a semi-permeable membrane, and only water molecules (in theory) cross the membrane. There are a number of molecules and ions that can pass at lessor rates than, say, sodium, calcium, and other mineral salts which are typically rejected about 95% in a new membrane. The trouble is, as the raw water is forced against the membrane, the contaminants build up and must be flushed away or the membrane will build up plaque and foul. The pressure of most municipal water supplies is typically enough, but at low pressures comes low performance and low efficiency. Many basic RO systems use 7-10+ gallons of raw water to produce a gallon of pure. Our design uses about 2.5 - 3 gallons for each gallon of pure. (Water used to purify drinking/cooking water for typical family of four is normally less than water used in a 5 minute shower.) Our design adds deionization as a tertiary phase of purification, removing what RO does not, resulting in exceptionally pure water, free of all dangerous contaminants, and tastes amazing. We normally market to health care professionals who resell to their client/patients. We export globally.

Most residential systems now use about a 50 gallon/day membrane so there is fast recovery when the tank is emptied. (A valve stops production when the tank is full.) A number of products have been made with a goal of reducing the brine water produced, but they all have problems yielding a decrease in contaminant rejection.

Commercial systems can produce about any amount you might desire, all depending on $$. Our lab systems typically produce at 125 GPD rates, and often have large storage tanks (the size tank of say a typical private water well. It is all about peak demand and time available to replenish. We use pumps on those systems, and have a little better recovery as a result, but our residential systems have about the best ratio for home units. Commercial systems can have up to about 50% recovery rate, but require high pressure and a lot of maintenance to keep membranes from fouling. And of course, residentail water seldom is higher than about 2000 parts per million (ppm), sea water is 30,000-40,000 ppm.

Someone asked about selling sea salt - yuk! All the toxins of the world end up in the oceans, so not a high quality source for salt. There are salt deposits with almost 100% purity, and there are some products available that are "sea salts" but typically mined from ancient sources.
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Fascinating! Thanks Bob. Now this is what I envisioned with my OP. Love reading this stuff.


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Audioseduction said:
California Unveils Historic Water Restrictions Over Drought Crisis.


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Too little too late, IMO.

The time to have attempted to change the course of the train was several years ago. Now, more than half the train is over the cliff.

Why the California populous (and Nevada and Arizona) have never fully grasped the idea of water conservation even in dire times over the past decade or more is simply stunning to those of us in Colorado where a large portion of the water for the western states is sourced. Due to centuries old water rights downstream in neighboring states, the water that originates in Colorado is not ours to use and as such, Colorado has always had water restrictions as long as I can remember. I am 47 years old.

During non-winter months in the western Colorado county I reside, we've only been able to water lawns every third day with mandatory no-watering on Mondays. When I lived in Denver, I believe the watering restrictions there were either every other day or every three days as well.

There are regular news stories on TV during the summer drought years here. These stories show browning golf courses, people being issued fines for watering lawns on the wrong day, and even stories of people getting ticketed during the worst drought years for washing their cars on off days. At the same time, the news always likes to show the contrasting use and waste of water downstream in places like Phoenix or California. Somebody please remind me why cotton is grown in the deserts of Arizona?

Don't get me wrong, I understand how large the Ag industry is in California and how much of our valuable foods are grown there. I don't berate the farmer's water use for useful common sense crops at all. However, I still can't get over cotton being grown in Arizona.

The video above does not sound as dramatic to me as it may for others that have never lived with water restrictions. I hear the Governors plea as a common sense approach. Now if he were saying, "every household get's 50 gallons of water per day and will be shut off after that" then THAT is drastic and dramatic. But it isn't what he's saying. He's simply saying don't be a dumbshit with your water use.

I hope they fine the hell out of those that break the new rules and not look the other way as is so prevalent when enforcing these types of restrictions. The only way to get people's attention when you're trying to affect a change for the greater good and you have a non compliant society is to hit them where it hurts, the wallet....for fresh water is far too valuable to waste.
 
MikeCh said:
Too little too late, IMO.

The time to have attempted to change the course of the train was several years ago. Now, more than half the train is over the cliff.

Why the California populous (and Nevada and Arizona) have never fully grasped the idea of water conservation even in dire times over the past decade or more is simply stunning to those of us in Colorado where a large portion of the water for the western states is sourced. Due to centuries old water rights downstream in neighboring states, the water that originates in Colorado is not ours to use and as such, Colorado has always had water restrictions as long as I can remember. I am 47 years old.

During non-winter months in the western Colorado county I reside, we've only been able to water lawns every third day with mandatory no-watering on Mondays. When I lived in Denver, I believe the watering restrictions there were either every other day or every three days as well.

There are regular news stories on TV during the summer drought years here. These stories show browning golf courses, people being issued fines for watering lawns on the wrong day, and even stories of people getting ticketed during the worst drought years for washing their cars on off days. At the same time, the news always likes to show the contrasting use and waste of water downstream in places like Phoenix or California. Somebody please remind me why cotton is grown in the deserts of Arizona?

Don't get me wrong, I understand how large the Ag industry is in California and how much of our valuable foods are grown there. I don't berate the farmer's water use for useful common sense crops at all. However, I still can't get over cotton being grown in Arizona.

The video above does not sound as dramatic to me as it may for others that have never lived with water restrictions. I hear the Governors plea as a common sense approach. Now if he were saying, "every household get's 50 gallons of water per day and will be shut off after that" then THAT is drastic and dramatic. But it isn't what he's saying. He's simply saying don't be a dumbshit with your water use.

I hope they fine the hell out of those that break the new rules and not look the other way as is so prevalent when enforcing these types of restrictions. The only way to get people's attention when you're trying to affect a change for the greater good and you have a non compliant society is to hit them where it hurts, the wallet....for fresh water is far too valuable to waste.
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I have to agree here. I live in California and it's bad. Our total rain fall last year was about what, maybe an inch? I don't know, but it was nearly non-existent.
The reason the dumbasses in California have not woken up is two fold: 1) Corrupt government wasting money instead of putting towards solving the issue and 2) people (especially in Orange County and silicon valley) too busy living for foo foo thinking they are immune from everything and watching others on TV "reality" shows doing the same and encouraging it. Then when something does happen they freak out. That's my opinion. Not everyone is like that of course, but a vast number are.
Now we have everyone bitching about the water measures being taken, all crying unfair austerity and whatever. I may not like Gov Moonbeam or whatever his name is, but you are correct. He is doing little too late, but at least he is finally saying something. I've lived in Cali my whole life and only once decades ago, have I ever seen measures to conserve water enforced and that only lasted a month. I remember seeing water authority pickup trucks patrolling the streets looking for violators. Back then the tickets were $15 to $85.
Sadly, I don't think we will see any enforcement this time, but I hope we do! People need to wake up.

Addressing this is a damn site better than pulling the stunt he wants to pull about the plastic shopping bags.
 
CPP said:
California should have done something 20 years ago. This is a mess out there. I like this old article in 1990;. http://www.water.ca.gov/waterconditions/docs/4_drought_conditions.pdf
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Yes and for more to chew on adding insult to injury is the fact that this is not the first drought California has experienced!!! One would think somebody would have learned from before, but as the saying goes, "those who refuse to learn from history or the past are doomed to repeat it."
 
MusicDirector said:
Yes and for more to chew on adding insult to injury is the fact that this is not the first drought California has experienced!!! One would think somebody would have learned from before, but as the saying goes, "those who refuse to learn from history or the past are doomed to repeat it."
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This drought and it's history in California should be a hard lesson for the rest of the US of A. You can't always count on mother nature, she will bit you in the ass just to teach you who's boss.
 
I remember the drought of 76/77, and water levels were as low or lower than now. Everyone was saying that it will take years to recover with normal rainfall. Then the next year it rained like a mofo, filled up all the reservoirs, and everyone was saying it was a good thing we had the drought, or massive flooding would have occurred.

Anyway, this drought is different. I am a big believer in man made climate change, and I suspect things are only going to get worse. Much worse. Pretty soon Pass amps will be illegal. Glad I got mine now. :)
 
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