Downside of sealed cabinets?
- Thread starter madfloyd
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BlueFox
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The Thursday night test is in progress, while now sipping beer three. I am starting with a high-res Led Zeppelin playlist. First up is "Since I've Been Loving You" from Celebration Day, then ripped from a Blue Ray Audio. I only went to 100 db peaks, but the bass seems to keep up. Currently, "Dazed and Confused" from the recent remasters at 96/24 is playing, and the bass is also staying proportional to the other frequencies. At least to my ears.
I will investigate this issue further, but after learning my lesson, will not go any higher than a steady 99db max.
I love doing scientific research.
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Audioseduction
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The Thursday night test is in progress, while now sipping beer three. I am starting with a high-res Led Zeppelin playlist. First up is "Celebration Day" ripped from a Blue Ray Audio. I only went to 100 db peaks, but the bass seems to keep up. Currently, "Dazed and Confused" from the recent remasters at 96/24 is playing, and the bass is also staying proportional to the other frequencies. At least to my ears.
I will investigate this issue further, but after learning my lesson, will not go any higher than a steady 99db max.
I love doing scientific research.
What meter are you using? What weighting are you using A, B or C?
BlueFox
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The primary meter is the 'E' meter; Ear meter. For numbers, I use a Radio Shack digital SPL meter. Mostly, I use C weighting and fast response, since that appears to reflect what I hear. However, the important point here is irrespective of the number, I am not noticing a leveling off of the bass at higher SPLs. It could be occurring, but, from my perspective, everything is fine.
However, in the past, at extreme SPL levels, I did notice the S5s having a dramatic drop off at all frequency levels.
However, in the past, at extreme SPL levels, I did notice the S5s having a dramatic drop off at all frequency levels.
asiufy
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Ian,
Even though I don't think the Pass is necessarily the culprit, I think it's salutary to try different amps. I've had friends say "Magico has no bass" with 600W mono blocs, and when visiting me were stunned to hear the same speaker produce lots of bass with a 100W stereo amp.
One thing that is remarkably different with the sealed bass speakers is positioning. If you can, place them well out into the room, and spread them far apart. Then work the toe-in until you get the imaging right. Perhaps you can get Jim Smith to come out again and work on the S5s...
I haven't had the S5 in my room, but I did play with lots of Magicos and YGs, big and small, and that's how I normally set them up. Here's a room I just helped set up...
alexandre
Even though I don't think the Pass is necessarily the culprit, I think it's salutary to try different amps. I've had friends say "Magico has no bass" with 600W mono blocs, and when visiting me were stunned to hear the same speaker produce lots of bass with a 100W stereo amp.
One thing that is remarkably different with the sealed bass speakers is positioning. If you can, place them well out into the room, and spread them far apart. Then work the toe-in until you get the imaging right. Perhaps you can get Jim Smith to come out again and work on the S5s...
I haven't had the S5 in my room, but I did play with lots of Magicos and YGs, big and small, and that's how I normally set them up. Here's a room I just helped set up...
alexandre
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madfloyd
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The primary meter is the 'E' meter; Ear meter. For numbers, I use a Radio Shack digital SPL meter. Mostly, I use C weighting and fast response, since that appears to reflect what I hear. However, the important point here is irrespective of the number, I am not noticing a leveling off of the bass at higher SPLs. It could be occurring, but, from my perspective, everything is fine.
However, in the past, at extreme SPL levels, I did notice the S5s having a dramatic drop off at all frequency levels.
Wasn't that only on one side?
Thanks for the test, Bud, I appreciate it.
madfloyd
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Ian,
Even though I don't think the Pass is necessarily the culprit, I think it's salutary to try different amps. I've had friends say "Magico has no bass" with 600W mono blocs, and when visiting me were stunned to hear the same speaker produce lots of bass with a 100W stereo amp.
One thing that is remarkably different with the sealed bass speakers is positioning. If you can, place them well out into the room, and spread them far apart. Then work the toe-in until you get the imaging right. Perhaps you can get Jim Smith to come out again and work on the S5s...
I haven't had the S5 in my room, but I did play with lots of Magicos and YGs, big and small, and that's how I normally set them up. Here's a room I just helped set up...
alexandre
Didn't realize the YGs were sealed. Thanks, alexandre, I will play around with speaker positioning some more on the weekend.
KeithR
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so did you end up fixing your bass issue, MadFloyd?
BlueFox
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This is only a thought, and might be wrong, but after the experience I have been through with my S5s I think a downside can possibly be a heat build up that degrades or weakens a driver over time. At least with ported speakers there is an escape for any internal heat, but with sealed there is no way out. As I said, this is only a hypothesis.
Myles B. Astor
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Possibly with stock drivers. But Alon told me that part of the reason Magico went to designing their own drivers is in fact to deal with that issue.
KeithR
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I believe the S5 uses a Scan Speak sourced woofer unlike the Q series though- correct?
Face
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The temperature difference between the interior of a large sealed cabinet and a vented cabinet will be very minimal.
A well designed woofer should have a pole vent that cool's the driver's motor. A metal phase plug can work well as a heat sink for the motor as well.
For example:
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Myles B. Astor
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I'm not sure off the top of my head. Thing is, Magico manufactures the parts and has the major driver companies put it together since that's what they do well.
Face
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I know for a fact Magico have used ScanSpeak woofers in the past, in fact I have some of their old 10" woofers here with SS labels on them. I believe some of their woofers were Morel based too.
As for the S5, the tweeter appears to be SS Air Circ based, the mid I'm unsure(possibly Morel), but the woofers appear to be SS Discovery line based. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...s/scanspeak-discovery-26w/4558t-10-subwoofer/ Not that any of that matters too much as it's obvious their newer drivers aren't off the shelf drivers and are made to Magico's specs.
As for the S5, the tweeter appears to be SS Air Circ based, the mid I'm unsure(possibly Morel), but the woofers appear to be SS Discovery line based. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...s/scanspeak-discovery-26w/4558t-10-subwoofer/ Not that any of that matters too much as it's obvious their newer drivers aren't off the shelf drivers and are made to Magico's specs.
Myles B. Astor
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The s5 woofers are sourced from Scan Speak.
Myles B. Astor
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The temperature difference between the interior of a large sealed cabinet and a vented cabinet will be very minimal.
A well designed woofer should have a pole vent that cool's the driver's motor. A metal phase plug can work well as a heat sink for the motor as well.
For example:
But isn't that also dependent also upon several other design factors and trade offs chosen for the speaker?
I tested many cables in my life. In 16 years of time I have done thousends of tests with cables. Because this is what I love most of my work. I want to know all the properties of each brand and tool I test. I owned many different Pass labs amps: XA100.5, xa60.6, xa30.5, x250.5 and next week the 350.5. I will buy an .8 series in 2015. I also owned the best powercables of MIT. But they are not the best match with Pass labs. I had many conversations with Desmond of Pass labs about cables. I use the Purist Audio limited edition. This one is superior to all MIT cables with Pass Labs. The MIT filters the mid freq. That is why the mid freq is sounding thin. The Limited is much more open in the mid freq. The mid freq is the most important part of a recording. Pass Labs have there own properties. First you need to be aware of the properties Pass Labs owns. The .5 series gives a wide an deep stage, but within the big stage instruments and voices are not that intimate like in real. So you need cables which give those properties. When you use MIT or Shunyata you use similar properties. They both are not the best for an intimate and physical stage. I used the Purist Audio Aqueous with Oyaide 004 with the XA100.5. When I later bought a X250.5 and put a Purist Limited Edition with Oyaide M1/F1 to it I had a much better articulation of voices than with the XA100.5. That is why I always say: Many people only use a low % of the full potential of an amp. They don't use it to the max. A few months ago I bought 2 sets of the latest Audioquest Wel Signature xlr inerconnects. It gave me a new level in intimate physcial sound and height presentation of the recordings. You can buy the best Pass labs poweramp, but cables like the Wel Signature can give you a level in precision a more expensive poweramp will not give. I started to do blind tests in 2002 with expensive powercables against powercables of 100 dollar. I used a source/amp of 2000 euro with a powercable of 2500 euro against a source/amp of 5000 dollar with a powercable of 75 euro. All people choose for the option with the more expensive powercable. That is why my focus is always on the endresult. I want to create the best endresult possible. Because the best and most convincing sound in audio always wins!