Do you consider brand longevity when making a buying decision?

Mike

Mike

Audioshark
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With the loss of Ken Shindo, AJ Conte (Basis), Jim Thiel, Charlie Hansen, Dave Wilson and others and some namesake brands with aging founders, do you take into consideration brand longevity and succession planning before making a purchase?

Some brands have great succession plans in place and will survive maybe even thrive. Others appear to flounder after the loss of the founder.

It’s something I look at very carefully myself.

Although a bit of a morbid topic, I think it warrants discussion.

Thoughts?


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Absolutely. Whatever the influencing factors, a company needs to be active to bring cutting edge products to the market. This is also important to ensure products retain their value.


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I do look at that as I do dealers. Like in any business what happens to the business should the product designer / owner depart. Vpi had Matt take over with good success although Harry is still here loving retirement. Thiel just died being bounced around by poor management and decision making.

Brand longevity to me means brand and dealer stability.
 
Absolutely. I am extremely cautious aboit spending substantial amounts of money on esoteric brands because of difficulty obtaining service and resale purposes. The latter reason is particularly compelling when buying new at only nominal discounts.
 
It depends, I'd expect brands like Wilson or Ayre to be established enough to be able to continue. Brands that would worry me are some of the direct sales type lines. TRL for instance, the owner died and from what I understand didn't share his designs. Audio by Van Alstine seems to making some headway but I wonder what happens when Frank is not there. Or, some of these others like Red Dragon or the guys trying to carry on after NuForce, I forget that name.

None of us have a crystal ball, who knew Classe' was going to fold, unless maybe you were in the industry.

It's something to think about for sure. I remember trying to get parts for an Infinity speaker one time, not what I'd consider that old, and they no longer had parts. So even a larger brand can cause a sting.

What about some of these companies entering the U.S. market for the first time or again? WWhat if they pull out? Sure you may get service from overseas but shipping over a pond is quite a bit more involved.

I hear Roksan is trying to get in but having delay due to UL certification or some such.
 
Definitely.
Vandersteen - 30 Years
MSB -25 Years
AudioQuest - 20 Years

Ken
 
I do now. Not so much before. It never occurred to me before as long as what I was looking at seemed to be reliable. Now I’d like to see the companies I buy gear from stick around for service, parts, etc.
 
I am ambivalent on this issue as I generally do not buy hi-fi for resale value. We need to accept that audio equipment has a limited lifespan and in financial terms, a terrible investment.

Should I deny myself enjoying a good product simply because the product designer could die in the near future?

Musical enjoyment is the primary consideration and reliability the secondary consideration.
 
I do consider brand longevity, if something breaks, I want to be able to fix it.

Mr P., I am friends with Frank Van Alstine. He is in his 70's but has made plans for his company to continue when he is gone. I will be doing a review in 2 weeks on one of his new amps.
 
Yes, especially for more expensive pieces. May affect serviceability and resale value. Also, brand reputation for consistency is very important if buying with minimal audition/review(s).
 
Mechnutt said:
I do consider brand longevity, if something breaks, I want to be able to fix it.

Mr P., I am friends with Frank Van Alstine. He is in his 70's but has made plans for his company to continue when he is gone. I will be doing a review in 2 weeks on one of his new amps.
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This is the primary reason for me too. I want replacement parts and repair service. Resale value would be a secondary or tertiary reason.

Ken
 
Mike/All -

This topic has become more relevant in recent years. As one moves into the upper tiers of audio, the survival and sustainability of a brand is very relevant. Typically, there is a key individual (sometimes a small team) that drives the innovation, quality and sound of a company. But, unless there succession plan in place, the departure of the leader/innovator will essentially mean the end of these companies.

While I did think about this topic in the past, I did not use this topic as a key decision driver. Moving forward, this will be a key decision element for me.
 
Ritmo said:
Mike/All -

This topic has become more relevant in recent years. As one moves into the upper tiers of audio, the survival and sustainability of a brand is very relevant. Typically, there is a key individual (sometimes a small team) that drives the innovation, quality and sound of a company. But, unless there succession plan in place, the departure of the leader/innovator will essentially mean the end of these companies.

While I did think about this topic in the past, I did not use this topic as a key decision driver. Moving forward, this will be a key decision element for me.
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This is an interesting topic. A company's succession planning is one of the key drivers of their enterprise risk management. This is just one of the reasons ERM has come under increased scrutiny in recent years.

Best,
Ken
 
Interesting topic indeed. I have owned equipment from manufacturers that subsequently closed. (I currently own Classe amps!)
Unfortunately it is not easy to anticipate what will happen unless you are an industry insider.
Not much a consumer can do except to keep enjoying the products while they still work.
That said, if I am a dealer, I would be much more concerned about the future of companies that I am going to partner with.
 
Yes, I did consider that.

When I replaced my Burmester amps by Halgorythme, a one man company, I only dared because:
1. He lives only 20 km from me (maintenance, repairs,...)
2. He's more than 10 years younger than me.

I'm not thinking about the far future. Within 10-15 years, I guess all my gear will be replaced anyway. :D
 
my brand choices are about performance. and none of my brands are 'big' brick and mortar types. and if the economic downturn in 2008 taught us anything, it's that most hifi brands with overhead are vulnerable (with a handful of exceptions). so the more 'agile' companies with negligible rent, infrastructure and a sales distribution layers are less likely to be folded up in the inevitable next downturn.

agree that the life cycle of the brain trust of any brand is also important. turns out I'm older than any of the creative people who's gear I use (other than Willie Studer). so that is just not an issue for me. and except for MSB (yet), I personally know all the creative people behind my brands (and they know me).

maybe my kids will have to deal with that issue.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
my brand choices are about performance. and none of my brands are 'big' brick and mortar types. and if the economic downturn in 2008 taught us anything, it's that most hifi brands with overhead are vulnerable (with a handful of exceptions). so the more 'agile' companies with negligible rent, infrastructure and a sales distribution layers are less likely to be folded up in the inevitable next downturn.

agree that the life cycle of the brain trust of any brand is also important. turns out I'm older than any of the creative people who's gear I use (other than Willie Studer). so that is just not an issue for me. and except for MSB (yet), I personally know all the creative people behind my brands (and they know me).

maybe my kids will have to deal with that issue.
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Mike, is there a place where you list your current equipment? (There is nothing listed under your signature on this site). Thanks!
 
Wow, this is an eye opening thread, now I am paranoid of the boutique makers or what I call boutique makers and classify D’Agostino in this category.

I ran McIntosh, Focal prior to D’Agostino and Wilson and some times regret letting those pieces go especially based on earlier comments but cant help what in front of me for the time being anyway.

Happy Listening :yahoo1:
 
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