Do you consider brand longevity when making a buying decision?

Right or wrong, I thought about it a lot.

I wanted the ability to keep amps and pre and turntable a long long time, and ended up with accuphase and ClearAudio. For speakers, I did buy TADs and was flabbergasted when Andrew jones walked out the door (but the CR1s still sound pretty good). I passed on some of the boutique manufacturers for just this reason, likely sacrificing some innovation and lean structure (I.e., cheaper cost of operation and distribution)for having done so.

I did buy a magnum dynalab tuner (and god I love it). Gotta have some tubes in there somewhere!! Of Course, no one will be listening to any FM in five years anyway ...
 
I buy most of my equipment used, so there usually is some track record about reliability. In some cases, the company has gone out of business, but there are third parties who are still servicing the equipment. Of course, before you buy is the time to get references and make some phone calls. I've taken the occasional chance on a new company, but not for a purchase I couldn't afford to go south.

High end audio is generally a bit risky, since many (most?) of the companies involved are small, many (most?) driven by the vision of one person, who may or may not have the business experience to transition from a start-up to a successful ongoing company. Of course, many large companies can very easily discontinue a product or a division that doesn't meet their profit goals, leaving the customer without support. With mergers and buyouts occurring with great frequency, we even see what appear to be successful companies, like Oppo Digital, decide to close up shop, albeit with a gradual withdrawal from the market. Then again, we bought one of the first 5000 Teslas!

Larry
 
I like what Mike L said. I want my system to sound good. I will probably die with it. Most of us are 50 or older, In that regard, who cares. My wife and I will probably die with millions in our estate. I am more concerned my family gets the money, not some city or state, or even the fed,
 
yes very much so , i stick with bel canto as been around for years , modwright , audio research .msb , tannoy etc actually my lovely amplifiers are made by a gent who loves to fly in the sky with a propeller attached to his back , like a microlite . i thought long and hard before commissioning them due to this dangerous hobby :D
 
I definitely consider brand longevity especially wrt serviceability:

1. Can I get a service manual with schematics and troubleshooting info?
2. Are the parts used commercially available off the shelf (COTS) or are they custom made?
3. Are there any potted modules that can not be serviced?
4. Has the company set up a network of independent repair facilities?

Sure casework and other parts are going to be custom - but that kind of stuff doesn’t usually fail.

Audio companies are all relatively small and anything can happen, so I try and hedge my bets.

In the ‘80’s I bought an SAE 2600 and one of the deal points was I had to have a service manual or no deal. A lot of back and forth, and an NDA, and I got the manual and the amp. Fast forward 10 years and SAE didn’t exist, but I could still service the amp.
 
W9TR said:
I definitely consider brand longevity especially wrt serviceability:

1. Can I get a service manual with schematics and troubleshooting info?
2. Are the parts used commercially available off the shelf (COTS) or are they custom made?
3. Are there any potted modules that can not be serviced?
4. Has the company set up a network of independent repair facilities?

Sure casework and other parts are going to be custom - but that kind of stuff doesn’t usually fail.

Audio companies are all relatively small and anything can happen, so I try and hedge my bets.

In the ‘80’s I bought an SAE 2600 and one of the deal points was I had to have a service manual or no deal. A lot of back and forth, and an NDA, and I got the manual and the amp. Fast forward 10 years and SAE didn’t exist, but I could still service the amp.
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Tom, good tips.

I wonder what electronics would a manufacturer create on their own and can these be substituted with other makes and models?


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Ed,
I see a lot of manufacturers using proprietary potted modules. McIntosh, Boulder, Ayre all do this, to name just a few. There are some very good reasons to do this; better thermal performance, copy-protecting novel circuit designs, control of critical circuit layouts, etc.

Most power transformers and all output transformers are custom designed.

A lot of brands use boutique hand made capacitors to help them create their desired sonic signature. Audio Reasearch comes to mind.


So it's pretty hard to avoid this kind of thing, which then goes back to brand longevity and buying what you want because you like the aesthetics and sound of it. :)
 
Good points about service to some equipment. I am glad Emmanuel is still around with First Sound. We were talking today. I have upgrades my preamp twice and may move to a Paramount design soon. It's nice to have the flexibility of the manufacturer to keep the performance current. I could repair most any failure in most all my gear on my own. Accept for the DAC. I would have no idea what to donwith an R2R ladder or how to find resistors matched to less than 1%
 
I have been very lucky with equipment not needing service or repairs. But I still buy brands that have longevity. I got my first Audio Research amp and preamp in the 1970's. I have also returned to Kimber, Audioquest, and Linn.
 
W9TR said:
I definitely consider brand longevity especially wrt serviceability:

1. Can I get a service manual with schematics and troubleshooting info?
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I am curious which company would provide service manual with schematics ? that would give away all the IP it has in the product.
 
I have Hansen Audio speakers (Knights) and wonder if they have folded as no reply to my attempts at contacting them. I’m based in the UK. Does anyone know the fare of Hansen?
 
Sorry for the long delayed response. The answer is in my signature. McIntosh. I get service manuals on everything I own. I can call Sharon and get parts. No problem.
 
Daveuk340 said:
I have Hansen Audio speakers (Knights) and wonder if they have folded as no reply to my attempts at contacting them. I’m based in the UK. Does anyone know the fare of Hansen?
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They have a UK distributor listed with their phone number and email and an email for the HQ in Canada listed on their website. Did you try them all? And with google you can even find the phone number for Canada HQ.
 
Not only brand longevity but also current world situations. I was interested in ordering a piece of gear but lost interest when missiles started flying over the the roof where they manufacture the equipment. Kinda hard to communicate or upgrade (let alone ship to and from) with this kind of thing going on.

But yes, I learned this lesson the hard way when Gary Dodd passed.

Tom
 
It is hard to estimate the longevity of a company when so many brands are one-person shows. Frequently there is no planning for succession. A lot of ego is involved and creators hate to let go. And who wants to reflect on their own mortality.

A couple of years ago I was on the telephone talking to a builder of music servers. His partner had already retired and he was no puppy either. I asked him what plans there were for succession. He was caught off guard and said he would get back to me. I never heard back.

I think companies with significant physical presence (buildings and specialized equipment) and number of employees may have a better chance of surviving. But that is not guaranteed and whomever takes over the company may not have the skill set or philosophy of the founder(s).

I have owned several brands that were considered leaders in their field but no longer exist for various reasons.
 
I would prefer to look ahead than behind. I would look at the future of the company. Would I buy ARC, Krell, CJ or Ayre today? I wouldn’t touch them with a 10 foot pole. Nothing about their products, but I would not be comfortable with their futures or outlook.


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Dizzie said:
It is hard to estimate the longevity of a company when so many brands are one-person shows. Frequently there is no planning for succession. A lot of ego is involved and creators hate to let go.

A couple of years ago I was on the telephone talking to a builder of music servers. His partner had already retired and he was no puppy either. I asked him what plans there were for succession. He was caught off guard and said he would get back to me. I never heard back.

I think companies with significant physical presence (buildings and specialized equipment) and number of employees may have a better chance of surviving. But that is not guaranteed and whomever takes over the company may not have the skill set or philosophy of the founder(s).

I have owned several brands that were considered leaders in their field but no longer exist for various reasons.
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In todays environment , who has longevity?

Absolutely no one IMO, think of audio as a luxury , kinda like racing , in racing its easy , you race what you can afford to throw away, its the same in Audio today , small cottage industry , Brands will come and go , buying what you like and want , knowing worse case it may end up as a throw away never an investment ..!

The reverse would be Bingo , if lucky ...

Take Digital for eg every purchase is a throw away obsolete at birth , yet many don't flinch to throw out and upgrade ..

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a solid product ...


Regards
 
I have bought several top brands (Magico, Gryphon, Esoteric, AudioQuest) new over the past seven years, and because of their value retention as n to n-2 generation products, I've been able to acquire significantly better upgrades/replacements than I otherwise would have. Previously, I was able to sell 15-20 year old Mark Levinson (amp) and Aerial (speaker) products for 30-40% of what I paid new! So, yes, established, reputable brands (and their supporting dealers) have been important to me, and especially now that I have retired.
 
GSOphile said:
I have bought several top brands (Magico, Gryphon, Esoteric, AudioQuest) new over the past seven years, and because of their value retention as n to n-2 generation products, I've been able to acquire significantly better upgrades/replacements than I otherwise would have. Previously, I was able to sell 15-20 year old Mark Levinson (amp) and Aerial (speaker) products for 30-40% of what I paid new! So, yes, established, reputable brands (and their supporting dealers) have been important to me, and especially now that I have retired.
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This is why I buy McIntosh amplification, usually used. It is not the ne-plus-ultra of high end gear. No film and foil capacitors rolled on the thighs of Nicaraguan virgins. ;) Some even call it mid-fi. I’m ok with that.

But the cost of ownership is negative since when I upgrade I can sell it for more than I bought it for. That’s not true of their source equipment and pre/pros, but then again all that stuff depreciates.

I don’t buy stuff from companies whose whole existence is dependent on a star personality designer or engineer. While it’s tough out there, these companies tend to be the first to fold. Maybe the latest example is Salk sound. Great products, no longer a company.
 
MichaelsMinute said:
They have a UK distributor listed with their phone number and email and an email for the HQ in Canada listed on their website. Did you try them all? And with google you can even find the phone number for Canada HQ.
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Yes I’ve emailed them all. Will try phoning Canada then
 
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