Do I really need an " Audio Grade Network Switch "?

[rbbert]

That's not accurate, either. The Ethernet switch, it's cheap-*ss clocks, Ethernet receivers, power supply, and transformer cores in the receivers can all have an impact on the audio quality. You can also get high-source leakage impedance current between the RJ45 Ethernet receivers that can have an audible impact, as well.

And then, there's common-mode noise, which can...also be in the Ethernet cables. Doh!

Both jmusica and I noted that both local and internet-streamed files pass through the same switch but still sound different (local are better). Since the switch is present and the same in both instances, why would the switch account for the difference in sound quality.

 

[jmusica]

The SOtM doesn't have an SFP cage...

The one I see on their website does. It's more expensive than the Uptone, and both get great reviews. I wonder if it's possible to hear a difference (at least for me, my ears, with my system - opposed to someone with a 100k setup and better ears than me).

 

[Randy Myers]

Both jmusica and I noted that both local and internet-streamed files pass through the same switch but still sound different (local are better). Since the switch is present and the same in both instances, why would the switch account for the difference in sound quality.

One thing that comes to mind for me is what is being referred to as local. If you are talking local files being on a NAS and sent through a local network then they would indeed go through the switch. However, if local is files that are stored internally to the server, which is what I refer to as local, then the signal would not go through the switch at all.

 

[Puma Cat]

The one I see on their website does. It's more expensive than the Uptone, and both get great reviews. I wonder if it's possible to hear a difference (at least for me, my ears, with my system - opposed to someone with a 100k setup and better ears than me).

Here's my recommendation, J.

Buy the one that is less expensive.

 

[jmusica]

Here's my recommendation, J.

Buy the one that is less expensive.

Done. Won't have it til February tho. Worth buying a master clock?

 

[Mike]

I like this one. Brand new. Started another thread with details.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Puma Cat]

Done. Won't have it til February tho. Worth buying a master clock?

Sure. But, master clocks can be really pricey. If you find an affordable one, please let me know.

Also, I don't what you're using for power distribution, but something that made a notable improvment for me was connecting a Shunyata Venom CGC cable from the ground post of my EtherREGEN to one of the four GP-NR ground posts of my Shunyata Everest power distributor. I don't know why folks don't use that GP-NR system on the Everest, Denali, Alpha, Sigma or Venom power distributors more, because it can provide a really notable improvement in audio quality.

 

[jmusica]

Sure. But, master clocks can be really pricey. If you find an affordable one, please let me know.

Also, I don't what you're using for power distribution, but something that made a notable improvment for me was connecting a Shunyata Venom CGC cable from the ground post of my EtherREGEN to one of the four GP-NR ground posts of my Shunyata Everest power distributor. I don't know why folks don't use that GP-NR system on the Everest, Denali, Alpha, Sigma or Venom power distributors more, because it can provide a really notable improvement in audio quality.

Found this one, no idea if it's any good as I'm not familiar with the master clock market, never had one. https://ctronicmusic.com/home
Seems they're tying themselves to EtherREGEN marketing-wise. Pretty inexpensive.

I'm not sure if my power distributer (Ayre) has grounding posts... I'll have to check.

 

[rbbert]

One thing that comes to mind for me is what is being referred to as local. If you are talking local files being on a NAS and sent through a local network then they would indeed go through the switch. However, if local is files that are stored internally to the server, which is what I refer to as local, then the signal would not go through the switch at all.

Previous posts indicated most "local" files are from NAS, and to my ears the EtherRegen allows the sound to match that on the server/player's internal SSD (if the NAS tracks are buffered into RAM before play). As noted, Internet streamed tracks can't really be buffered into RAM before play, which I suspect is part (but probably not all) of the reason they don't sound as good.

 

[rbbert]

And though it is not obvious from the website, Totaldac now has entered the Ethernet switch marketplace

 

[Ricky64]

I auditioned the Innuos Phoenix Net. I tried it on either side of a Roon Nuc+ and couldn't detect a difference...

 

[Puma Cat]

As noted, Internet streamed tracks can't really be buffered into RAM before play, which I suspect is part (but probably not all) of the reason they don't sound as good.

That's not true when using Aurender N20 or N30.

 

[rbbert]

That's not true when using Aurender N20 or N30.

I wasn’t quite accurate in my statement. My player will load one track at a time (from a streaming service) into RAM, then after that will load the next track during the first few seconds of the first track playing, so it is always playing from RAM. From local storage I can load 8 GB into RAM before playing any of it. Whether that small amount of extra processor use makes any difference I don’t know (or really care, I can’t change it).

 

[Feanor]

Any audible improvement by using a switch, optical break, etc. will not be due to the primary purpose of the device. That’s well understood.

It will be a secondary effect, most likely the reduction/elimination of electrical noise that ends up inducing jitter in the upsampler/DAC.

Jitter measurement is a well known and solved problem, yet manufacturers of these switches cables and isolation devices have yet to show that their devices quantitatively reduce jitter. It’s crickets out there, apart from a hand-waving white paper from one popular device manufacturer.

It’s too bad, because enough people whose opinions I value are hearing differences. Are these differences in these individual’s cerebral cortexes?

So, well ... Yes.

For a splash of reality watch Amir's commentary ...

 

[Feanor]

I think it's been a quite controversial topic for years, like what's the difference between normal network switch and an audio grade network switch, the price difference is certainly obvious though...
Anyway, I've done some researches, most audio reviewers say that under this " new digital streaming era " that an network switch is a must for an audio system, which is understandable for me, I mean because if I wanna play TIDAL or Qobuz or Spotify, I gotta use network so I can stream these online services, so yeah I get that if the network quality is good enough, it can possibly level up the music performance.

But anyhow, I'm new to this area, so I don't like to spend big bucks on my first purchase hahaha... there's a very wide range of the prices though, the top one is Ansuz Power Switch I think, the inner circuit and design look pretty sharp, and surely over my budget lol

So I'm choosing between Bonn N8 and SW-8, these two both got good reviews, and the prices seem so darn much friendly to me as I'm looking for an entry level switch now, do any of you have any insights to share?
or should I just go for the higher level ones?

Best,

Probably this is your best bet in a network switch ... Amazon's 'Choice'

Watch Amir's commentary with a typical set of measurements of an "audiophile" switch ...

[video]https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-5-Port-Gigabit-Ethernet-Unmanaged/dp/B07S98YLHM/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1FG315C3U7YH5&keywords=network+switch&qid=1643028775&s=electronics&sprefix=network%2Celectronics-intl-ship%2C78&sr=1-5[/video]

... So much snake oil and audiophile sucker bait.

 

[imprezap2]

Probably this is your best bet in a network switch ... Amazon's 'Choice'

Watch Amir's commentary with a typical set of measurements of an "audiophile" switch ...

[video]https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-5-Port-Gigabit-Ethernet-Unmanaged/dp/B07S98YLHM/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1FG315C3U7YH5&keywords=network+switch&qid=1643028775&s=electronics&sprefix=network%2Celectronics-intl-ship%2C78&sr=1-5[/video]

... So much snake oil and audiophile sucker bait.

Have you tried one in your system, Melco S100 definitly helped improving my streaming performance, very , very close now to local HDD and CD transport.
So easy to just dismiss what a product does.

 

[Feanor]

Have you tried one in your system, Melco S100 definitly helped improving my streaming performance, very , very close now to local HDD and CD transport.
So easy to just dismiss what a product does.

Well, the Melo cost Cdn$3500. Not a lot, I take it, for some Audio Shark members. But in my case fort he kind of money my audio priority would be elsewhere -- even assuming assuming the Melo effected some small improvement.

Did you view the ASR video I linked? What do you think of that?

Personally over my 50 years interest in hi-fi I've learned to take one-off personal testimonials with a great deal of skepticism.

 

[W9TR]

I am audiophile switch ‘curious’ and have found some significant improvements using an optical break powered on the receiving end by a low noise power supply. With the help of Kelly, I did a 50 trial blind test and picked the optical break as being preferred in 48 of 50 trials. So there may be a pony in this audiophile switch business.

Next month, I’m planning to test an audiophile network switch using the same methodology. Should be fun.

 

[rbbert]

Well, the Melo cost Cdn$3500. Not a lot, I take it, for some Audio Shark members. But in my case fort he kind of money my audio priority would be elsewhere -- even assuming assuming the Melo effected some small improvement.

Did you view the ASR video I linked? What do you think of that?

Personally over my 50 years interest in hi-fi I've learned to take one-off personal testimonials with a great deal of skepticism.

I take ASR's "findings" with an equal degree of skepticism. As they say, GIGO, and that isn't even addressing the relevance of their measurements to audio perception.

 

[Feanor]

I take ASR's "findings" with an equal degree of skepticism. As they say, GIGO, and that isn't even addressing the relevance of their measurements to audio perception.

ASR isn't above criticism, granted. However I believe that equipment measurements, including theirs, do have some correlation with subjective impressions. That is, unlike many audiophiles I don't dismiss measurements out of hand.

So for example, while hardcore ASR members tend to see lowest THD+noise as always the best, I believe that harmonic distortion profiles are very important. Simply put, quite high 2nd and 3rd order harmonics not only benign but are actually preferred by a majority of audiophile -- whether they are aware of it or not. They are not likely to be aware of it if they totally ignore measurements.