Difference in Duplex Receptacles

Kingrex said:
Lisa, what were you trying to fix.

Brad, no idea. My guess is the intelligent current sensing technology may use a doughnut type current transformer wrapped around the hot, neutral and ground. Did you notice any sonic difference changing to a non intelligent breaker.
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I am changing them this morning and will see. My speakers are plugged into them so I'm not sure I will but everything matters.
 
Speedskater said:
It's not leakage. It's voltage drop caused by current flow.
Or something is mis-wired.
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The only place left for a mis-wire is within the breaker. Everything else is properly done.

I should receive replacement receptacles this week and will change out the Leviton currently in question.
 
Kingrex said:
Lisa, what were you trying to fix.
Brad, no idea. My guess is the intelligent current sensing technology may use a doughnut type current transformer wrapped around the hot, neutral and ground. Did you notice any sonic difference changing to a non intelligent breaker.
Click to expand...
The current transformers won't matter. The Neutral and Safety Ground are connected together in the main breaker box. So at the start of the cable run the Neutral and Safety Ground are at exactly the same potential. If they have different voltages at a receptacle, it means that current is flowing in one of the conductors (and that current would be measured in Amps).
 
brad225 said:
The only place left for a mis-wire is within the breaker. Everything else is properly done.

I should receive replacement receptacles this week and will change out the Leviton currently in question.
Click to expand...

I just bought a 10 pack of Hubbell HBL5362. You want a couple. Not looking to make money, just cover my costs. I only need 2.

let us know on the breaker change.
 
Speedskater;303076 The Neutral and Safety Ground are connected together in the main breaker box. So at the start of the cable run the Neutral and Safety Ground are at exactly the same potential. If they have different voltages at a receptacle said:
I have found this to not be true. Most electricians only ground at the main disconnect with the large green screw through the neutral buss to the can. That means the only connection the ground has to the neutral is 2 screws and some sheet metal. And, the further down the bus bars you go, the worse the milivolt potential. Especially with the neutral being boned on both sides with a piece of sheet steel. I have seen 30 to 40 milivolt in the main panel between neutral and ground depending on where you take the measurement. There is possibly 10 to 20 milivolts between neutral to neutral from the start to end of the bars. Depending on the panel. Square D QO with the copper bus is much better than Homeline, Siemens, CH etc,

In all my panels I take a #4 from the 1st position of the neutral bar and jump it to the middle of the ground bar. I then jump from one ground bar to the opposite side ground with another #4 jumper. In my audio panels I do even more lacing between neutral to neutral. I also always tap audio circuits from the neutral and ground right at the point I have my jumpers bonding the system together. It makes a big difference.
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brad225 said:
My EE friend Phil is out of range for input this holiday weekend so I'll start here.

I decided to change a couple of QO breakers in by panel for the audio room to get rid of Arc Fault breakers. When I looked at the chart I made for my music room I discovered the outlets that we tested and showed leakage between neutral and ground were on Arc Fault breakers.

Can you electrical experts fill me in on how the AF breakers might cause this since they are connected to the hot buss bar and the neutral also?
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Brad, out of curiosity, are your branch circuits tied to the receptacles in phase?


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Kingrex said:
I just bought a 10 pack of Hubbell HBL5362. You want a couple. Not looking to make money, just cover my costs. I only need 2.

let us know on the breaker change.
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Sorry, I thought I responded.
I have already ordered some receptacles. They should be here this week. Should I change any others I would be interested.
 
UltraFast69 said:
Brad, out of curiosity, are your branch circuits tied to the receptacles in phase?


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Today I undertook a breaker realignment in the panel. We have 2- 200 amp panels in the house and I installed all of the breakers to my listening room in the lesser used panel.

Other than 2 double pole breakers I was able to remove all other breakers from the phase that my music room is on. I also moved them as close to the main 200 amp breaker in the panel.

I only had an issue with the two circuits that are for the receptacles for my speakers. Those were also the breakers that were arc-fault and I removed them and put in new QO breakers. The wires to both of those breakers were not long enough to move them very far so I chose to extend them by twisting on another piece of #10 Romex and soldering the connection before adding wire nuts. It is not my preference but it allowed them to move to the other end of the buss bar.
Any opinions on that are welcome.

A couple of the breakers could have moved one space closer to the main breaker on the buss bar but would require a solder connection. I decided it was not worth the extra resistance in the soldered joint to move the 1 space on that phase.

One thing I hadn't realized is that I had the 3 slide dimmers for the 20 - MR16 Halogen lights in the room on the same phase as the equipment. I moved them to the other phase also.

Once I finished, I put on a playlist that gets regular play time and there was a noticeable difference in the dynamics. That was for across the board from low to high. I can't say for sure others that listen to my system from time to time will notice but it was obviously to me, at least today.

Is it possible that I might just be having better than average power in our part of the county today? Yes, so I will update this as I listen more.

New receptacles arrive on Wednesday to replace the in question Leviton product. Time will tell whether it is piece of mind only or if it helps. If nothing else, it can't hurt. Well, other than fat fingers working with #10 wire in a small wall box but that's the price of progress.
 
One thing I am pondering, you probably heard that noisy neighbors contribute to a reduction of sound quality.

I am thinking this applies, but more so in the neighborhood you live in. Some guys I know live in new neighborhoods where all the infrastructure feeding them is new; power, sewer and water.

Rex and I live in older neighborhoods with newer homes, kinda like lipstick on the pig.


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We are in an older rural area. Lot size is 2-20 acres, most being 3-6. Though it is an older area there are a few new homes being built.

In the greater area, say 5 mile radius there are hundreds of new homes being built. With the expansion all of the main transmission lines have been replaced.
We would probably have 2-3 miles of older poles and wires from the new power to our property. We are fortunate that with the need for electric based on the buildings on our property they placed one of the large green transformer junction boxes in the center of the property.
 
Yesterday my EE friend Phil was over to replace a bias relay in one of my amp.

When we finished we tested the Leviton receptacles that I changed the ARC Fault breakers to standard QO breakers. The measurement between neutral and ground only went down to 700 milli-volts from 800.
In moving the breakers in the panel as I had previously mentioned, the problem receptacles were now fed by breakers in the first position on the buss bar. Not sure if this was the reason.

I will be receiving new receptacles this afternoon and will measure again to see if there is the change we expect.
 
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