"Destination" Part Deux

[Mike]

Chris - Two amps that hit WAY above their price points are Odyssey and Veloce. Something to investigate for sure.

I heard both. Frankly, I love the Veloce's. I would like a pair myself. The Odyssey has a great sound too - like Soulution.

Mike

 

[CDLehner]

Chris...sounds like you want to stay in the $5K region and $8K and beyond is a stretch, so let's stick with the $5K budget. One option you haven't mentioned and that others have not suggested is Hegel. I believe the Hegel H20 stereo amp should be another consideration. Puts out 200wpc into 8ohms and 350wpc into 4ohms. Lists for $5,750 and seems like another neutral, revealing solution with natural midrange and god imaging. Here's a review: SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com - SoundStage! Hi-Fi | SoundStageHiFi.com

The other option from Hegel that can fit the bill is the H300 integrated and I believe you can bypass it's preamp and use it a stereo amp. Also lists in the $5K region but you should be able to find a nice used version for less. Should have similar sonic characteristics. If you decide to clean out your preamps as well, this could serve you well as an integrated until you decide to reintroduce a preamp down the road, if that is something you are considering doing.

Just another idea for your consideration.

Thanks Cyril. $3-5k was my target. Now...if there was just a super piece, at a super price; I'd consider if I just had to s t r e t c h a bit, it was such a good deal. But yes...that's like $6k, plus or minus; not 8. :|

Funny you should mention Hegel...because I thought the same thing. I've owned a few of the small IAs; and I was not a huge fan of those. But yes...I would say their standalone amps, are likely neutral powerhouses like I'm looking for.

I had no idea, what the behemoth H30 cost; obviously, not even close to my ballpark (~$15k I think). But if you say the list on the 20 is $5750; that's doable...with the right discount, lol.

I'll read the review, and talk to my dealer.

 

[CDLehner]

Yep.



Here is what Mike said:

If that doesn't say "stay away," please tell me what it means to you. If you ask me about an amp and I tell you that I have one and it's collecting dust, do you think that infers that I think you should run out and buy one? Bargains are only great if they are what you really want and they make you happy. Good luck Chris.

With all due respect...and please, let's just make this about the end of it; it doesn't say that to me AT ALL...if you consider the context.

Talk to Sean; he had one and sold it. For what; a $25,000 DarTZeel? If that's the case...or anything close to it; doesn't mean the 4B SST2 is bad. Just means someone paid more, and "bettered". And as for Mike; god love 'em...but you've seen his signature I assume?

I'm sure he has plenty of "decent" gear, "collecting dust". Again...doesn't make the $5k (and again, nowhere near that..."on the street") Bryston bad; because Mike prefers his $65,000 Pass monos

Your vote has been noted; you don't like it. I get it. But don't paint me, as ignoring people's advice.

 

[CDLehner]

Mike

It's the Ref 1's that are an amp killer. Soundstage measured them at the "CNRC" at 82 db and pretty much everything under 500 hz was below 4 ohms.

Thanks Jack. Thanks for the clarification. Well, 28SST2's can handle anything and everything!

Yeah; Jack beat me to the correction. They're listed at 85...but the 82 measured, doesn't surprise me one bit!

It's like a black hole of power. The PMCs...they're pretty easy-peasy.

 

[cmalak]

Yeah; Jack beat me to the correction. They're listed at 85...but the 82 measured, doesn't surprise me one bit!

It's like a black hole of power. The PMCs...they're pretty easy-peasy.

Chris...how big is the room that the Ref 1s are in? How far do you sit from them? 82dB will require a lot of juice to drive assuming you like to play your music loud. If you sit 10 feet away, a 300wpc amplifier will be able to hit 103dB peaks at your seated position but that's at max with a lot of distortion I bet. Not suggesting you like to play your music at 100dB+ SPLs but if you want an amplifier that can play these bad boys loudly and still have headroom for dynamic peaks in the music you listen to, you will need at least a 200-300wpc amplifier. I just plugged 82dB sensitivity and put in an assumption for distance from speakers at 10 ft in one of those speaker loudness vs. sensitivity calculators to generate the numbers above.

 

[Jack]

Cyril

As bad as that sensitivity measurement is the impedance graph for the lower registers makes it even worse. I am sure the dealer that had them at the show just got the amp he had in stock with the most current reserve and hoped it didn't get choked out. John Curl's Parasound designs were always big on reserve current though maybe not the last word in refinement.

Chris another couple of options are the big AVA Fet Valve amps and the Modwrights. With them as with Odyssey, you can call and talk to the designer and tell them what you are trying to drive in what type of environment. Also for the time being Chris at Parts Connexion is having a pretty significant sale on the amps in black, which you prefer. They are apparently way less popular than the silver. With their currency situation shipping is pretty cheap also from Toronto. They also do the service. I will have one of Dan's preamps here in the morning I bought from Chris last week. The big KWA-150 in black is half price at $3597.

 

[CDLehner]

Mike

It's the Ref 1's that are an amp killer. Soundstage measured them at the "CNRC" at 82 db and pretty much everything under 500 hz was below 4 ohms.

Chris...how big is the room that the Ref 1s are in? How far do you sit from them? 82dB will require a lot of juice to drive assuming you like to play your music loud. If you sit 10 feet away, a 300wpc amplifier will be able to hit 103dB peaks at your seated position but that's at max with a lot of distortion I bet. Not suggesting you like to play your music at 100dB+ SPLs but if you want an amplifier that can play these bad boys loudly and still have headroom for dynamic peaks in the music you listen to, you will need at least a 200-300wpc amplifier. I just plugged 82dB sensitivity and put in an assumption for distance from speakers at 10 ft in one of those speaker loudness vs. sensitivity calculators to generate the numbers above.

Cyril, that is one thing I have going for me; my room is pretty "intimate" (unfortunately).

With the Ref 1s...it's not so much about volume, as it is "jump"!

 

[CDLehner]

I know it's not the most known brand; which is a shame, because I happen to think they're great amps...with zero marketing!

But what do you guys know/think, of (David) Belles? I've owned 4 of his amps; the 150a Hot Rod, and the Ref 150a v2 three separate times...lol.

The 350a V2 is 250/500, and a "high-current" design. A lot of value, and ticks a lot of boxes for me.

 

[cmalak]

Fair enough. I didn't check the impedance and phase angle curves but you definitely want a SS amp with a beefy power supply that can deliver a lot of current and double the power as the impedance is halved with this speaker, especially if you want that dynamic headroom as you mentioned.

 

[Jack]

I've had my 150A HR for 15 years and haven't sold it. I bought on the recommendation of Doug Blackburn when hewas with Soundstage. He used it to drive Vandersteen 3A Sigs which I also had. It eventually lost out to the Odyssey Stratos Mono's but haven't been motivated to sell it yet. I think the Belles would be good if you can find one at a good price. Hardly see the newer ones used and not many of the older ones.

 

[CDLehner]

I've had my 150A HR for 15 years and haven't sold it. I bought on the recommendation of Doug Blackburn when hewas with Soundstage. He used it to drive Vandersteen 3A Sigs which I also had. It eventually lost out to the Odyssey Stratos Mono's but haven't been motivated to sell it yet. I think the Belles would be good if you can find one at a good price. Hardly see the newer ones used and not many of the older ones.

I have a Belles connection...lol

 

[jaxwired]

Depending on your level of sales success between now and October, you could even use some air miles and a few dollars and attend RMAF to see what's new and exciting. Heck, you may stumble upon something that just knocks your socks off, something that is in the market today or something brand new that's announced at RMAF.

Now that's a great idea.

 

[Anatta]

Anthem Statement P2? Around $5k I think.

 

[CDLehner]

Hey guys; I just wanted to say thanks. You know...my wife used to always say "why do you even ask my opinion, when you're not going to follow my advice". That never made sense to me.

The way my brain works...and I guess I just assume everyone else's; is I have my own opinions, I like to hear everyone else's take...and then I let that re-affirm, or mold my own position. But in the end...it is my decision to make. To say if you're going to make your own decision, why even ask my opinion; IDK...sounds borderline sociopathic to me

Oh...did I mention, she is now my ex-wife LOL. Getting back to our little world: was the thread really supposed to go like this...

Me: Hey guys...I'm looking for an amp. Here are my criteria. Whaddya think?

Reply: Buy a Pass 100.8

Me: Oh, OK; I'll call my dealer right now

So I thank you; it was helpful to me...even if it wasn't helpful to you. But I'm pretty honed-in at this point, and I don't want to ruffle anymore feathers.

I'll post a pick of the "winner".

 

[MDP]

I know it seemed biased. But if you can do an integrated amp, I would consider a Hegel 300.
Tons of power and a sweet sound.

 

[Mike]

Great idea Mark!

 

[MDP]

Great idea Mark!

Thanks Mike.
I own the H30, but I've had the integrated in my system and I really don't hear much difference. It may be the best integrated amp I've heard. And it has tons of power.

 

[asiufy]

I know it seemed biased. But if you can do an integrated amp, I would consider a Hegel 300.
Tons of power and a sweet sound.

Agreed! Hegels offered tremendous bang for the buck. I did suggest the soon-to-be-released H360 in the previous "Destination" thread, that seemed to have disappeared...
I should have one in about two weeks...

H360 at a glance

New SoundEngine:
A new revision of our patented SoundEngine (adaptive feed forward error correction) that increases
damping factor to above 4000. All this while still maintaining extremely low distortion levels and
up to 60% less power consumption in idle.

New power supply/output stage:
Improved transformer and new output stages allow 50% more current, compared to the H300.

New pre-amp power supply:
Completely separate transformer for pre-amp and DAC results in much lower noise levels.

Improved Balanced input:
Completely new balanced inputs with technology from the Reference P30 pre amp.

Powerful:
The H360 is rated at 2 X 250 watts continuous into 8 ohms, and will be stable into lower impedances.

H360 Streaming
Further improved Apple AirPlay: With the improved master clock we have taken the sound from AirPlay to unheard of quality levels in the H360, maximizing the experience
from streaming services like TIDAL, Beats, etc.

Upnp streaming:
Streaming from a NAS drive to the H360 is significantly improved compared to the H160.
With the new master clock and advanced noise shielding, the H360 is a true streamer.

Works with ”all” apps:
The idea behind Hegel streaming is that you should be able to use the app of choice, and
change as you please. The H360 will work with most all apps on the market.

DSD 64/128:
The USB input now supports native DSD64/128

New D/A-Converter:
Brand new D/A converter with improved masterclock and new AKM chips.

 

[CDLehner]

OK...one last question for the group:

I'm 90% settled on the Belles amps, as I have a good relationship with the dealer; and have liked their presentation in the past. It's the kind of clean, neutral power...that just gets out of the way, and let's you tweak upstream if so wanted...that I'm looking for at this time.

The 350v2, is 250/500 for $4k list; and one of the features that I like about these amps...is just go from the single-ended connectors, to balanced, and you're running mono instead. And...the 350v2, double down again; from 250 @8, to [email protected] a cool kilo-watt @8 in mono. That's some serious nutz!

In fact, it got me thinking: I don't need 1,000 watts per side. In fact...IMO; no one needs, 1,000 watts per side...lest your room is an auditorium The 150v2 is 125/250; but like its big brother, goes mono with a change of the cable...and is 500 @8 when it does so. Maybe that's the better play?

Certainly it's enough power. What I know I do lose, is some headroom and current. For example...the 150 makes >30 amperes of peak current; the 350 64!

So...the 150 is 125/250/500; and $2750 list...$5500 for a pair

The 350 is 250/500/1,000; and $4k list...you can do the math, lol.

Keep in mind; of course there is some discounting involved. Votes?

 

[Mike]

OK...one last question for the group:

I'm 90% settled on the Belles amps,