destination dac recommendations

aKnyght

aKnyght

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i am more than happy with my current dac: t+a dac 8 dsd.

given its performance and relatively modest cost, i consider it to be a tremendous value... as do many others here and elsewhere as judged by the comments and feedback they have offered.

however... i just can't help but wonder what a "destination" dac would be for my system. by this i mean a dac that would offer a huge bump is SQ. on a relative scale it would be like a two letter-grade improvement... an improvement i would really notice and say: wow!! life is short -- how do i pay myself back for not having this dac earlier?

i would also be grateful to hear in which respects / qualities would a recommendation differ from and improve upon the SQ of the t+a dac 8 dsd

let's keep it under $20k... hopefully, a lot under.

thanks!!
 
1. MSB Discrete with dual power supplies, Roon Renderer module (if you want to go straight Ethernet) or ProUSB/ProISL if you want to feed it via USB from an Aurender N10, Lumin U1, Roon Nucleus+, etc.

2. The Chord DAVE/Blu2 Combo.

3. The new Berkeley REF 3 DAC w/Alpha USB

4. The top dog NAIM streamer ND555.

5. Lumin X1

6. You could do a MSB Premier with Roon Renderer or ProUSB/ProISL if using a Lumin U1/Aurender/etc. Now you’re cooking with gas!

7. T+A MP3100HV (includes CD/SACD)
 
Mike said:
1. MSB Discrete with dual power supplies, Roon Renderer module (if you want to go straight Ethernet) or ProUSB/ProISL if you want to feed it via USB from an Aurender N10, Lumin U1, Roon Nucleus+, etc.

2. The Chord DAVE/Blu2 Combo.

3. The new Berkeley REF 3 DAC w/Alpha USB

4. The top dog NAIM streamer ND555.

5. Lumin X1

6. You could do a MSB Premier with Roon Renderer or ProUSB/ProISL if using a Lumin U1/Aurender/etc. Now you’re cooking with gas!

7. T+A MP3100HV (includes CD/SACD)
Click to expand...

thanks mike -- some really, really nice choices!!

in terms of sonics, what do you think the lumin x1 and the msb premier bring to the party versus the t+a dac 8 dsd?
 
aKnyght said:
thanks mike -- some really, really nice choices!!

in terms of sonics, what do you think the lumin x1 and the msb premier bring to the party versus the t+a dac 8 dsd?
Click to expand...

The DAC8 DSD really shines when being fed DSD512 (through upsampling/conversion). The X1 is very transparent with gobs of detail, transparency and resolution. The Premier, well, it has the magic of the R2R...fleshy, rich, “tape like”, organic.
 
Mike said:
1. MSB Discrete with dual power supplies, Roon Renderer module (if you want to go straight Ethernet) or ProUSB/ProISL if you want to feed it via USB from an Aurender N10, Lumin U1, Roon Nucleus+, etc.

2. The Chord DAVE/Blu2 Combo.

3. The new Berkeley REF 3 DAC w/Alpha USB

4. The top dog NAIM streamer ND555.

5. Lumin X1

6. You could do a MSB Premier with Roon Renderer or ProUSB/ProISL if using a Lumin U1/Aurender/etc. Now you’re cooking with gas!

7. T+A MP3100HV (includes CD/SACD)
Click to expand...

Nice list. Have you heard the ref 3 yet ? Are you getting one for your store ?
 
Mike said:
The DAC8 DSD really shines when being fed DSD512 (through upsampling/conversion). The X1 is very transparent with gobs of detail, transparency and resolution. The Premier, well, it has the magic of the R2R...fleshy, rich, “tape like”, organic.
Click to expand...

unfortunately, the t+a dac 8 dsd is only capable of dsd256 and dsd512 when used with a windows based streamer/transport. otherwise, in the case of mac and linux it is constrained to dsd128 via DoP. i contacted t+a who indicated it had something to do with the firmware for the amanero usb receiver.

so, given the absolutely flawless performance of roon ROCK on my transport, i am unlikely to switch over to a windows OS configured as a server and then run roon on top of that... seems like a recipe for frustration.

side note: in this day and age with all the software engineering talent on the planet, it is hard to understand why this has not been fixed, or even existed to begin with -- epic fail... but what do i know.
________________

the lumin and MSB are now on my list to hear at some point should i decide to go down this path -- hopefully i can arrange a home trial to hear in my system which i suppose is somewhat idiosyncratic.

> anyone have any thoughts on DACs with tube-based analog output stages? the two i hear mentioned here the most are brinkmann nyquist and lampizatOr. any others to look at?
 
My Windows 10 dedicated server running Roon & HQPlayer performs flawlessly with the T+A DAC 8 DSD. I believe it is a personally preference from there, but I also believe you are looking at many times the price of the T+A. I personally believe $20k would barely cover a true upgrade.
 
Doubt if on par with the better Lampi but Cary Audio is keeping up well with technology and have DAC's with tube output. In fact, they did have one that was switchable tube or solid state, I haven't looked in a while so not sure if they still do that. Cary does give an in home audition period.

Usually very basic in regards to function and feature Audio Note has a tier of DAC's. I had one for awhile, it is a lush sounding DAC, great for vocals, small ensemble, not the best for Rock or complex music. Mine was one of the entry level though.

aKnyght said:
unfortunately, the t+a dac 8 dsd is only capable of dsd256 and dsd512 when used with a windows based streamer/transport. otherwise, in the case of mac and linux it is constrained to dsd128 via DoP. i contacted t+a who indicated it had something to do with the firmware for the amanero usb receiver.

so, given the absolutely flawless performance of roon ROCK on my transport, i am unlikely to switch over to a windows OS configured as a server and then run roon on top of that... seems like a recipe for frustration.

side note: in this day and age with all the software engineering talent on the planet, it is hard to understand why this has not been fixed, or even existed to begin with -- epic fail... but what do i know.
________________

the lumin and MSB are now on my list to hear at some point should i decide to go down this path -- hopefully i can arrange a home trial to hear in my system which i suppose is somewhat idiosyncratic.

> anyone have any thoughts on DACs with tube-based analog output stages? the two i hear mentioned here the most are brinkmann nyquist and lampizatOr. any others to look at?
Click to expand...
 
Randy Myers said:
My Windows 10 dedicated server running Roon & HQPlayer performs flawlessly with the T+A DAC 8 DSD. I believe it is a personally preference from there, but I also believe you are looking at many times the price of the T+A. I personally believe $20k would barely cover a true upgrade.
Click to expand...

thanks randy -- i would tend to agree; however, not having heard many DACs of the type being being discussed here, i have no basis to make a conclusion one way or another... just hoping to hear from others with more experience here what it would take to realize a very significant SQ improvement over the t+a... and then have a listen.
_______________________________

overall, i am exceedingly happy with the t+a -- notwithstanding the dsd / OS thing... [begin rant] why should customers be precluded from a mac or linux OS to access what is the recognized strength of the dac8 dsd for the simple want of a firmware update? t+a's indifference on this issue sure feels like the middle finger. this is the single reason i would hesitate to continue recommending the dac8 dsd to others [end rant].
 
It never hurts to look :). I wish I had an opportunity to listen to some of these, but that seems to be a very difficult thing for many of us. Unfortunately there are not stores such as Mike's within reach for us, therefore we have to count on reviews and discussions to narrow the list.
 
I'm going to go a different direction; keep your nice dac, take your $20k budget limit and get the Taiko Extreme server. the Extreme is so much better than other servers that it makes a larger difference than dac differences. I've had my Extreme for 2 months now and it's a revelation.

here is a thread on another forum that gets into details. the only negative is there is a wait time as the demand for the Extreme is.....well.....extreme.

https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/

then spend a few dollars to upgrade your network to fiber optic (also covered in this thread).....get rid of any copper Ethernet. there are a few good choices for that.
 
aKnyght said:
overall, i am exceedingly happy with the t+a -- notwithstanding the dsd / OS thing... [begin rant] why should customers be precluded from a mac or linux OS to access what is the recognized strength of the dac8 dsd for the simple want of a firmware update? t+a's indifference on this issue sure feels like the middle finger. this is the single reason i would hesitate to continue recommending the dac8 dsd to others [end rant].
Click to expand...

Does mac or linux support Native DSD? I know it did not use to but maybe it does now??? I do not see any issue using a Windows machine, but again, I guess this is a personal preference. It certainly isn't any more difficult to use then either of the others in my view.

T+A is definitely a DSD expert and they make their own 1-bit DSD converters.
 
Mike Lavigne said:
I'm going to go a different direction; keep your nice dac, take your $20k budget limit and get the Taiko Extreme server. the Extreme is so much better than other servers that it makes a larger difference than dac differences. I've had my Extreme for 2 months now and it's a revelation.

here is a thread on another forum that gets into details. the only negative is there is a wait time as the demand for the Extreme is.....well.....extreme.

https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/

then spend a few dollars to upgrade your network to fiber optic (also covered in this thread).....get rid of any copper Ethernet. there are a few good choices for that.
Click to expand...

Mike, have you eliminated all Ethernet from your system, or just after the network switch?

Thanks
 
Randy Myers said:
Does mac or linux support Native DSD? I know it did not use to but maybe it does now??? I do not see any issue using a Windows machine, but again, I guess this is a personal preference. It certainly isn't any more difficult to use then either of the others in my view.

T+A is definitely a DSD expert and they make their own 1-bit DSD converters.
Click to expand...

initially, i was only sending PCM to the dac8 dsd due to an upstream digital configuration that limited me to s/pdif inputs.

after a year i added a transport that runs roon optimized core kit (ROCK) -- roon's linux based operating system. it is purpose-built, extremely lightweight and specifically tailored for running roonServer which is itself an optimized version of roon core using less computing resources than the full version of roon.

personal preference: other than the (admittedly potential) hassle/frustration of installing windows OS, configuring as a headless server and running roon on top of it, i am also reluctant to add an OS that runs myriad other processes completely unrelated to roon and generating unnecessary electrical noise... so much so, there is actually an audiophile product (fidelizer) that does nothing but shut down such superfluous processes in an effort to reduce this noise.

anyway... the transport is connected directly to the dac8 dsd via usb. so, given that roon can upsample/convert PCM all the way to dsd512, i should be able to access 100% of that t+a 1-bit dsd converter goodness... except for the lack of a firmware update which would allow it to accept a native dsd stream under linux.

all that being said, PCM on the dac8 dsd sounds quite terrific; absolutely nothing to sneeze at. if this were all it had, it would still be a tremendous dac -- dsd128 via DoP, my current mode, is equal to or somewhat better than PCM depending upon who is evaluating -- native dsd256 or dsd512... guess i will never know.

users of the roon nucleus(+) will have the exact same issue with t+a DACs. also, i believe roon running on a mac can upsample/convert to dsd512 but, again, same issue w/ t+a DACs.
 
back to a potential dac upgrade: i would love to hear from anyone on the brinkmann nyquist and how it would compare to not only the t+a dac8 dsd but also the msb premier and the lumin x1.
 
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