Computer Audio is Dead and Streaming has killed it

I spin all my discs one time for the most part, to rip them to my computer/music server. I have directly compared the SACD rip to spinning the SACD and the rip sounds better in my view. Granted I only have a Oppo BDP-105 so I know there are better spinners out there that may sound better.

However I do believe that locally stored files are better than those streamed across my network from a NAS, or certainly then anything streamed from the "cloud" (I hate that term by the way, it just means your data or files are stored on someone else's computer which could be anywhere in the world). There are too many points in a network that can interfere getting the signal to the DAC... that is my view, and I'm sticking with it :).

High resolution downloads are my favorites... and yes SACDs do sound wonderful, but the rips are better in my view and several of our audio club members who have came over and compared. If I had a mega daddy warbucks spinner maybe the spinner would sound better :)...

I am also planning on comparing Roon playback straight without HQPlayer versus going through HQPlayer. Jussi has frustrated me from HQPlayer. I purchased HQPlayer a little over a year ago and like it, and have recommended it. However he recently came out with version 4. I asked him what is improved with version 4 and how can a licensed version 3 user get 4.

First and foremost as appears to always be the case, his reply is very hard to decipher. Similar to many other programmers I have worked with. Many on teams I have worked on I would insist on locking them in the back room and not allow them to talk to other departments ;). He would definitely be locked in the back, back room.

He just directed me to a feature list and did not in any way shape or form talk about what has been improved/changed and why I should consider version 4. And then he said that version 3 users get a small discount on 4. Then I noticed that he raised the price to $250 so an upgrade will be over $200 when a full version of 3 was $160. he also stated that each version will have to be re-purchased going forward.

HQPlayer is not the most user friendly software and making changes is quite a pain and hard to compare because of how it works, therefore if it is not night and day better the price may not make much sense going forward.

So I have decided to compare the most updated Roon (I have heard it has improved) versus using HQPlayer as the playback engine. We will see how it all plays out. I am also going to play around a bit with not up-sampling and seeing if I enjoy playing the files straight is enjoyable to up-sampling.

I am also excited about some of my favorite high resolutions albums coming out in higher resolutions... check out Vanessa Fernandez albums on Native DSD... her new one in DSD512, her other albums in DSD256!!!
 
The trend I see is integration. Plex, Bubble, and most streamers now integrate Tidal & Qobuz into their server and control apps. I find I will queue local and streamed files into my playlist on a given evening. If I find a great recording on Qobuz or Tidal, I'll often buy a copy. These services aren't making a ton of money and could go away at any time.

Annoyingly, both services have different gaps in classical and jazz, so I can't narrow it to one. I ditched Spotify, and I haven't picked up the new classical-dedicated Hi-Res service, Primephonic. Seems still sketchy.

I have all sorts of old recordings that never seem to have made it to streaming services, so I suspect I will always have my ripped local library. Internet streaming was inferior to local on my old streamer/DAC, but I don't find that to be the case with the new one (Cambridge Audio 851N --> Cambridge Edge NQ), I couldn't tell you why.
 
Agree with Mike. CDs definitely sounded better than my Sooloos no doubt. Even my kids could hear the difference. Only problem is no way in hell am i finding space to put 8000 cds in my house. Also picking a cd (which is not an experience like spinning a record) is now like watching TV without cable to me. I guess i got too used to being able to jump albums.
 
Mike said:
https://twitteringmachines.com/computer-audio-is-dead-and-streaming-has-killed-it/

For the record, I don’t agree that streaming sounds as good as CD/SACD or even rips/downloads, and I have gone to great lengths and continue to go to great lengths to optimize my network.

My personal ranking is:

CD/SACD from a great Transport to the same DAC - 10/10
CD/SACD rip or high res download - 9/10
High res streaming on Qobuz or Tidal - 8/10
Redbook streaming with Qobuz - 7.5/10
Redbook Streaming with Tidal - 7/10
Click to expand...

Can definitely agree with Mike that a top notch mechanical CD Transport feeding a top notch DAC is better than rips or downloads feeding the same top notch DAC. They’re close, but the difference provided by the transport is palpable, especially as the system’s noise floor is reduced.


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I agree as well, the nudge goes to physical media, but in my case I would knock a point off OP Mikes numbers bringing things a tad closer.

It takes a lot of work to get your network squared to support streaming as well as NAS playback - if this is not done, your numbers may differ greatly with OP Mike and my comment.

All formats will exist well past our lifetime, and components to support them will as well.

Despite physical media taking a modest gain, when I sit down to listen to music, I have greater enjoyment with the ability to bounce around tracks and this is where the tablet surpasses the nudge - ease of operation and I’m in shape running 650 calorie 5Ks.

Gentlemen, It’s a great time!



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My experience is that considerations about format or physical media or networking are all buried by the original quality of the recording/mastering

That being said, it seems to be that networked audio has a bright future with continuing advancements in network switches, servers, and knowledge about how to configure everything optimally. I wouldn’t be surprised if networked audio surpasses the best cd transport in the near future.
 
Willco said:
My experience is that considerations about format or physical media or networking are all buried by the original quality of the recording/mastering

That being said, it seems to be that networked audio has a bright future with continuing advancements in network switches, servers, and knowledge about how to configure everything optimally. I wouldn’t be surprised if networked audio surpasses the best cd transport in the near future.
Click to expand...

Without a doubt “the original quality of the recording/mastering” is paramount.

But the point that several of us have made in this thread about a quality CD transport being superior to a CD rip or streaming is based on comparing the same recording/mastering version on all three options as well as the same downstream system. That way the variation on the recording/mastering (as well as thebdoenstresm system) is removed and it’s only the playback method response that is being compared.


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I think it's more advantageous now that we have streaming services. We won't have to worry about adding more storage just to compile our playlist, right?
 
Check out one of Paul McGowan's latest videos about CD Players still being relevant. Its ok for the first few minutes ; until he goes into plugging his book so, you've been warned :|

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMGs5aVGsJA

He has mentioned in the past that one of the reasons they (PS Audio) haven't released their "Octave" Networking music player is that they can't get it to sound anywhere near as good the DMP/CD transport.

I also believe PS Audio is releasing a rebook only successor to the DMP (Directstream Memory Player ) soon.

Many great and upcoming options to spin and enjoy the compact disc.
 
It would seem to me, a good way to go is to add a nice transport to your audio setup. Bryston, PS Audio, SimAudio, NAIM, etc. all make reasonably priced transports. Then, when you buy that new CD or play a favorite old one, you can enjoy it at the highest level. First look at your DAC manufacturer to see if they offer a compatible transport that may even get you SACD.

If you can’t get one with SACD, not to worry, ripping is easy. If you have the right Blu-Ray player, you’re up and ripping in 15 minutes or less and all the software is free (thank you Sonore!). I’m plowing through a stack of my SACD’s now with my Oppo 105-D. The latest 2x Oppo’s won’t work, however, there are many $25 on eBay Blu-Ray players that will.

If you don’t have a digital input, I guess you could look at a network capable transport, although, none come to mind at the moment.

Something like this would look awfully nice in the rack:

d93f25d062580e47697e068dc521cb90.jpg


https://www.accusticarts.de/en/products/drive-ii/
 
Mike said:
If you have the right Blu-Ray player, you’re up and ripping in 15 minutes or less and all the software is free (thank you Sonore!).

If you can’t get one with SACD, not to worry, ripping is easy.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this is the key. The right players are no longer sold, and there were only a couple models that could work in the first place. You happen to have one :) (so do I).... Sony was not very happy when Oppo made these machines. (I know there were a couple random models by other manufactures but I never heard of anyone using one to rip with.)

It does work but it is important to create the correct USB key to boot the machine off. I also find that sometimes I have to re-find my spinner on the network from the Sonore software. But to me it is worth it to put every new SACD I buy on to my server.

Your second quote cracks me up Mike. Ahhhh, to rip you would need a machine with SACD capability... the only ones that can rip can also play SACDs :D....

Not sure I would consider a $12,000 spinner as reasonably priced :).... Another good machine, in my view are the Marantz spinners... I thought the Marantz I had sounded slightly better than my Oppo (for $100 less).... but the Oppo had that one other function that means it will always remain in my system...
 
Randy Myers said:
Unfortunately, this is the key. The right players are no longer sold, and there were only a couple models that could work in the first place. You happen to have one :) (so do I).... Sony was not very happy when Oppo made these machines. (I know there were a couple random models by other manufactures but i never heard of anyone using one to rip with.)

It does work but it is important to create the correct USB key to boot the machine off. I also find that sometimes I have to re-find my spinner on the network from the Sonore software. But to me it is worth it to put every new SACD I buy on to my server.

Your second quote cracks me up Mike. Ahhhh, to rip you would need a machine with SACD capability... the only ones that can rip can also play SACDs :D....
Click to expand...

Below is a list of reported working/compatible with SACD ripping brands and models, hopefully there will be additional discoveries and this list can someday be revised once again, just like it was in both February 2018, and again in February 2019 with the addition of various Sony units listed below.

Sony brand compatible Blu-ray players:
BDP-S390 (also sold as BX39 in some markets)
BDP-S490
BDP-S590 (also sold as BX59 in some markets)
BDP-S4100
BDP-S5100 (also sold as BX510 in some markets)
BDP-S6200 * (also sold as BX620 in some markets, requires Sony ARMv7 AutoScript version developed Feb. 2019)
BDP-S7200 * (requires Sony ARMv7 AutoScript version developed Feb. 2019)
BDP-S790 * (requires Sony ARMv7 AutoScript version developed Feb. 2019)

Pioneer brand compatible Blu-ray players:
BDP-80FD
BDP-160
BDP-170

Oppo brand compatible Blu-ray players:
BDP-103 and 103D
BDP-105 and 105D

Cambridge brand compatible Blu-ray players:
Azur 752BD
CXU

Arcam brand compatible Blu-ray & CD/SACD players:
FMJ UDP411
FMJ CDS27

Primare brand compatible Blu-ray player:
BD32 MkII

Electrocompaniet brand compatible Blu-ray player:
EMP3

Link: https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/rip-sacd-with-a-blu-ray-player.3652/

A brand new ripping player has been found, the Sony BDP-S590.

Full list here:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...ts-true/page/176/?tab=comments#comment-940992

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Randy / Mike

I’m aware of SACD ripping but never looked into it and agree getting this onto a server makes things easier and if the SACD quality is there a no brainer.

Are you saying specific Blue Ray players can be connected to a computer and with software can copy a SACD onto its drive?


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UltraFast69 said:
Randy / Mike

I’m aware of SACD ripping but never looked into it and agree getting this onto a server makes things easier and if the SACD quality is there a no brainer.

Are you saying specific Blue Ray players can be connected to a computer and with software can copy a SACD onto its drive?


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Click to expand...

Yes. Easy as pie. And free. Just need the right blu-Ray player - list above. With an Oppo 103/105 it’s a snap.


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Yes, the rip is identical to the SACD playback. Some people in our audio club believe it is better because unless you have one of the certain spinner/DAC combos (McIntosh, Esoteric, PS Audio, etc.) then from your server you can use your dedicated DAC which is usually much better than the one in your spinner, or at least on the level of gear that I play in. Also, a huge plus is I can then run it through HQPlayer and up-sample the rip to DSD512/48!!!

I knew about the Pioneer and Cambridge. I also thought there was one Onkyo machine.

I was not aware that Sony had machines that would work! I knew the original PS3, but if it was ever "updated" then it no longer could.

I know it has something to do with a chip on the motherboard; not 100% sure so don't quote me... and the USB key booting sets the machine up to be able to pull the files off the SACD. The Sonore package that I have can create this USB key to boot the machine. I have a dedicated key that I reserve to boot the Oppo from whenever I get a new SACD.

Then your computer running the Sonore software can access the machine across the network and rip the files. In my experience this works most of the time. The only time I have had any issue was on certain classical albums that the software could not identify. Maybe 5% of the classical discs I have tried. All others appear to work fine for me. I have ripped all of my SACD to my server and helped a few members in our audio club rip theirs for their servers.

The only machines that I have heard people using and searching out for this particular purpose are the Oppos. It is nice to know that others are out there also since the last generation Oppos (203/205) can not.
 
Mike said:
Yes. Easy as pie. And free. Just need the right blu-Ray player - list above. With an Oppo 103/105 it’s a snap.


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Click to expand...

So, Can these Blu-ray players rip red book CDs as well?

And, with the right software from Sonore And a digital input on your server, you can rip direct to your servers storage?
 
Willco said:
So, Can these Blu-ray players rip red book CDs as well?

And, with the right software from Sonore And a digital input on your server, you can rip direct to your servers storage?
Click to expand...

No (just use a regular CD drive on your computer for that) and yes.


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cmarin said:
Without a doubt “the original quality of the recording/mastering” is paramount.

But the point that several of us have made in this thread about a quality CD transport being superior to a CD rip or streaming is based on comparing the same recording/mastering version on all three options as well as the same downstream system. That way the variation on the recording/mastering (as well as thebdoenstresm system) is removed and it’s only the playback method response that is being compared.


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Click to expand...


I don't have any direct experience comparing cd transport to local files, so I can only defer to those who have.

But it does seem to me possible, if not likely, that the advancements that are pushing forward in server tech and network optimization will eventually eclipse the best transports.

For what it's worth, on a What's Best thread, a user has reported that the PCie storage on the Taiko Audio Extreme server is "much better" than their Metronome T8 ($17k) transport.

Just reporting info off the internet...:S
 
Willco said:
...you can rip direct to your servers storage?
Click to expand...


I assume you can, however I do not really see this as an advantage. I make multiple copies as backups so the few extra minutes not having to copy it to my server makes no difference, and I would then have to copy it back off the server.

It is a fairly time consuming process. Each disk seems to take 10-15 minutes in my experience, so copying them to the location I want on my server is fairly irrelevant.

Oh, as far as I know this is a Windows program, unless other versions have come out.
 
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