Component stands

mep said:
Glad you "flew over" it and are laughing about it. I'm glad I could bring some joy into your life. I stand by every word I said with regards to the "triple bonus." Should you choose to think it's funny is your prerogative. It doesn't change the facts though. You also flew over the facts of your system even though I asked and you don't list your gear so that could help put things in perspective.
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thx yes, it was some god fun for a minute.....although rack-reviews are sounding always the same (thats the thing that makes me laughing the most).
about "the list", what could that put into perspective?
list-dependent, there is less than a tripple bonus?
 
I wrote this review for people who are looking to step up from a cheap rack and do believe that racks make a difference. I'm not looking to convert non-believers. However, I do want to understand the basis for their comments in relation to the system they are using which includes their room if they think good racks make no difference at all. For instance, if you live in Chicago in an apartment next to the L train tracks and you have a $300 system that you bought from Best Buy, I would understand.
 
I've had 3 stands over the last 20 years. A Arcici Suspense Rack, then a Finite Elemente Master Pagoda and now Grand Prix Audio SilverStone F1.

The Arcici seemed better. Didn't notice a lot before and after...but didn't hurt anything. The Finite was clearly better and surprised me about what a good rack can do for a good hi fi system. It began to change my thinking that a good rack is just as a important as cables, power, sound treatments etc etc etc. It's part of a good sound recipe.

The Grand Prix Audio Silverstone F1 frankly is out of this world. It will improve your system (mostly noise removal due to vibrational energy changes) as much as a new amp. You simply have to hear it. You can laugh...call me names. Just before you do, stop by my home. I'll take one component off the stand...put it on the floor...and in the first 3 notes of the song...you'll hear it.
 
u-sound said:
thx yes, it was some god fun for a minute.....although rack-reviews are sounding always the same (thats the thing that makes me laughing the most).
about "the list", what could that put into perspective?
list-dependent there is less than a tripple bonus?
Click to expand...

Uncle. Time to move on from you.
 
Beyond safely holding the equipment, what do you want a stand to do?

Micro vibrations are a reality - true. Some equipment is affected by this, digital sources for example. Tube amps too. Stillpoints or similar work very well to counteract these negatives.

However, using the wrong product, you can trap the energy in the component and negatively affect the sound too if you're not careful. You have to be careful which components receive isolation. Some benefit. Others do not. Not all benefit from it and in many cases can be negatively affected.

So I go back to my original question, beyond safely holding the equipment, what do you want a stand to do?

You need isolation for SOME devices, but dissipation for others. It's a delicate balance.

I've had in depth technical discussions with HRS and if I was going with a top tier rack, they would be high on my list. For now, I use a modest rack from Quadrasphire and Stillpoints under my DAC, Aurender/Lumin and SET amps.


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Best stand is no stand at all...or at least between your speakers. I can't tell you how many audiophile systems I've seen/heard with a gigantic shrine between the speakers, often with zero directivity control speakers:facepalm:. Speakers radiate in 3 dimensions!! Giganto shrines reflect...a lot.
If you must have a shr...excuse me, stand between the speakers, make it low, long/wide if needed. Or put it or some of it away from the front stage (yes Mike, like yours).
My 2c.

cheers,

AJ
 
Mike said:
Beyond safely holding the equipment, what do you want a stand to do?

Micro vibrations are a reality - true. Some equipment is affected by this, digital sources for example. Tube amps too. Stillpoints or similar work very well to counteract these negatives.

However, using the wrong product, you can trap the energy in the component and negatively affect the sound too if you're not careful. You have to be careful which components receive isolation. Some benefit. Others do not. Not all benefit from it and in many cases can be negatively affected.

So I go back to my original question, beyond safely holding the equipment, what do you want a stand to do?

You need isolation for SOME devices, but dissipation for others. It's a delicate balance.

I've had in depth technical discussions with HRS and if I was going with a top tier rack, they would be high on my list. For now, I use a modest rack from Quadrasphire and Stillpoints under my DAC, Aurender/Lumin and SET amps.


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Click to expand...

I don't want the rack to be a source of vibration or ringing and I want the rack to help isolate my gear from vibration.
 
Here's the rub: speakers emit vibrations that can get into amps, back into the speakers, back into the amps and go into a vicious cycle. True. However, electronic components emit energy at 50-60 cycles per second. If that energy is not allowed to escape and dissipate, then it goes back into the component and really affects the sound (essentially making it sound lifeless). So in isolating electronics from speakers, we need to be careful not to do more harm than good in isolating the electronics from themselves prohibiting proper energy to escape.

I've found that digital devices REALLY benefit from isolation. Microvibrations can have a terrible affect on jitter for example.

It's a delicate balance and experimentation is your best bet. My experience has been that, except for digital devices and tube amps, the difference is not noticeable immediately. Some devices take a long while before you hear the benefit or whether it sounds worse due to too much isolation and the energy remaining stored in the component. I like Stillpoints for this because they are not an "all or nothing" approach like a massive stand. That being said, HRS has some nice features to control the amount of isolation.

Here is an interesting article:

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2011/04/micro-vibrations.html
 
I'm going to do a bit of experimenting that way myself. my success with the sound anchor speaker stands has led me to try sound anchor component stands. I'm going to place an order next week. I hope it works but I'm doubtful. Sometimes we just have to be brave.
 
A good stand...is just good...

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Mike said:
Here's the rub: speakers emit vibrations that can get into amps, back into the speakers, back into the amps and go into a vicious cycle. True. However, electronic components emit energy at 50-60 cycles per second. If that energy is not allowed to escape and dissipate, then it goes back into the component and really affects the sound (essentially making it sound lifeless). So in isolating electronics from speakers, we need to be careful not to do more harm than good in isolating the electronics from themselves prohibiting proper energy to escape.

I've found that digital devices REALLY benefit from isolation. Microvibrations can have a terrible affect on jitter for example.

It's a delicate balance and experimentation is your best bet. My experience has been that, except for digital devices and tube amps, the difference is not noticeable immediately. Some devices take a long while before you hear the benefit or whether it sounds worse due to too much isolation and the energy remaining stored in the component. I like Stillpoints for this because they are not an "all or nothing" approach like a massive stand. That being said, HRS has some nice features to control the amount of isolation.

Here is an interesting article:

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2011/04/micro-vibrations.html
Click to expand...

Mike-Energy is always going to go somewhere. A stand will not cause energy to stay within a component. Good stands help isolate components from external energy and help dissipate energy from the components place on the shelves.
 
Try this for the non-believers! Put your source on a cardboard box for a week/month. Then put your source back on the isolation/footers/stand etc, "then",... tell me I'm wrong that a good stand doesn't make a difference.
 
mep said:
Mike-Energy is always going to go somewhere. A stand will not cause energy to stay within a component. Good stands help isolate components from external energy and help dissipate energy from the components place on the shelves.
Click to expand...

Many isolation stands do not allow the energy to dissipate properly and therefore, the energy goes BACK into the component instead of out through the stand. Many uber expensive stands force that energy to go back into the component(s). The best at dissipating energy is good old wood.


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bzr said:
Try this for the non-believers! Put your source on a cardboard box for a week/month. Then put your source back on the isolation/footers/stand etc, "then",... tell me I'm wrong that a good stand doesn't make a difference.
Click to expand...

No one uses cardboard boxes. But compare a solid wood stand to something costing 20 times more. Over the long term, you might be surprised.


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Mike said:
The best at dissipating energy is good old wood.
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My experience (and wallet) tends to agree, Mike.

Do you think wood finishes, in particular the thickness of the finish on a given wood base (e.g., multiple layers of polyurethane vs. a thin lacquer vs. oiled finish) would or could make a difference?
 
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