Cleaning up dirty power...What's your flavor?

Mike

Mike

Audioshark
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There are a lot of different ways companies have found to tackle dirty power and there are those who are staunch believers in one technology over another.

The more traditional way, is something like the AudioQuest Niagra 7000, Torus and others. These often incorporate the use of a large transformer.

Others, such as PS Audio, believe in power regeneration.

Some like Stromtank believe in battery power.

Yet others, prefer to take a more passive approach such as Shunyata, Nordost and Ansuz. And even these differ fundamentally in how they treat or handle dirty power. Shunyata uses technologies such as NIC, CCI and QR/BB to tackle high frequency power line noise. As I understand it, the Ansuz products operate with noise cancellation and shifting the noise into a higher band.

Finally, the last group doesn't believe in power conditioning at all or at least only partial (maybe for preamp/digital).

What is your take? What's the clean power solution that has worked best for you?
 
What works best for me is buying components that have well built power supplies that were designed to filter normal household electricity and cleanly convert ac to dc and regulate the voltages.
 
I started with the Niagara 5000, then moved to the PS Audio P10, liking the idea of steady clean power, plus the ability to see what it was doing on the touch screen.

Being more paranoid than anything, I had my amps plugged into the P10 whereas I should have plugged them into the wall, but that would have meant longer power cables.

One night music was coming out on a great recording, and we had the volume pushing 75% and the system tripped not causing any issues other then turning things back on. One of the local gurus always said the P10 was holding back and you should try a simple distribution bar with star earth grounding.

After that, it was a full on conversion to the Nordost QRT line giving more a push, less restriction with an across the board benefit. I learned about Ansuz after all this and would have drifted in that direction - but for now I’m happy with everything and no turning back.




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After hearing my friends system with Tripoint, if I had the level of equipment as you, I would go with them. Before the Tripoint he had PS Audio & Synergistic Research which it replaced.
 
Oh, he has had the Troy for about 4 years. He just got the Orion last year. I'm not sure what flavor of ground wires he's using.
 
Mike.......I have been a believer in power conditioning for many years, although I am fortunate to have relatively clean utility power for my home from a dedicated power transformer that is not shared. That is one of the advantages of living on a large enough piece of property that the power company had no choice but to provide me with my own transformer. Typically the incoming THD on my AC utility service is in the range of 1.6%.

Initially I got into power conditioning when I built my home by installing 20 amp dedicated outlets for my audio system. The living room sound system has three dedicated circuits, one each to PS Audio Soloist Premier SE outlets, two for the audio rack and one for the subwoofer. In the years that followed I installed two power conditioners, PS Audio Power Plant Premier's, choosing to go the AC regeneration route over totally passive. The living room system now uses a single PS Audio P10 AC regenerator powered by one dedicated 20 amp circuit that supports all source components and the preamplifier. The power amplifier is powered through a Furutech Flux 50 directly into the second dedicated 20 amp circuit. The PS Audio P10 does a better job of lowering THD and regulating output voltage than the Power Plant premiers managed. I just checked the P10 and see that incoming THD is 1.6%, and the 120 volt regulated output shows 0.2% THD. The living room sound system definitely benefits from clean power.

When I built the two room addition to my home for my recording studio I installed a dedicated 100 amp sub-panel and provided two dedicated circuits for my two channel sound system and two dedicated circuits for my home theater system. The home theater processor and source components are powered through a PS Audio Power Plant Premier. The two channel sound system is powered from a PurePower 2000 AC regenerator with battery backup that is itself fed power from a PS Audio Soloist Premier SE outlet through a Furutech Flux 50.

Between having relatively clean incoming utility power that is further enhanced with AC regeneration, dedictaed 20 amp circuits, high quality receptacles, along with whole home commercial surge protection installed at my service panel, I am comfortable knowing I have clean AC power for my audio components. The sound from both systems is excellent, dynamic, and dead quiet. In addition, all source components, AC regenerators, and power amplifiers are powered using 2 meter Wireworld Silver Electra power cables. I am pleased with the results and consider the expense and effort worth it.
 
matt_zak said:
After hearing my friends system with Tripoint, if I had the level of equipment as you, I would go with them. Before the Tripoint he had PS Audio & Synergistic Research which it replaced.
Click to expand...

I have never heard Miguel's power conditioner but I use the Troy Elite with Thor SE & Emperor mkii grounding cables which I highly recommend. My system always sounded good to my ears before Tripoint was introduced but what it does in terms of musical immersion is second to none IMO.

Dave
 
Like Dan and I have said this for years, if you can depending on where you live and what you live in, get the incoming utility power cleaned first. FPL and my electrician took care of mine not to mention corrected a ground fault at my home. Once thats done, add dedicated lines from a separate breaker panel to your listening room. Then if needed add more power conditioning.
 
mep said:
What works best for me is buying components that have well built power supplies that were designed to filter normal household electricity and cleanly convert ac to dc and regulate the voltages.
Click to expand...
Exactly!
Well designed hi-fi components can deal with dirty electricity and also not be the cause of dirty electricity.
 
Been using a Torus RM20 for years. In the current house, I have 50 amps (of the 300 amp home service) dedicated to the main system (which is an integrated AV system). One 20 amp circuit, where the Torus is plugged into and the two channel stuff is run through. I also have two 15 amp dedicated circuits.

I have other conditioners that I own too but use in secondary systems. I have a couple of Richard Gray units in one system and an old Vansevers in another, among others.

The first time I got a demo of the Torus, I had a friend helping out in a local audio store. He hated amps plugged into conditions. They had Ayre monoblocks plugged into the Torus in one room. He told me I had to hear it. So he played something and then unplugged the amps from the conditioner and played it again. Sold me.
 
Dan - have you ever compared the regeneration unit to the conditioner? It's interesting to see the journeys, many of you have tried different types and methodologies of conditioners and then moved on to something else.

I'm curious, how many of you use a device to measure the results? Do you believe the measurements clearly align with what you're hearing?
 
This is an interesting thread for me. I have had numerous electrical issues since moving into this home 12 years ago and have tried many different type power conditioners. All with limited sucess until recently.
A crew from my electrical Co. was doing some work down the street and I approached them concerning the noise I am experiencing on my line. They came down to my house and found the "drop" from the pole was very old and frayed, had several splices and was run to a pole across the street.
They ran a new drop from a closer pole eliminating the splices and providing new wire. However when doing so they noticed some abnormalities in the supplied power. This led them to a local sub station that was used many years ago by a now defunct mfg plant. It had been upgraded several years back but for whatever reason (unknown to me) it was passing or generating the noise. The crew put in a work order to correct the problem and recently did so. This was a noticeable improvement on my system.
So as several of the above posters have reported, start with your incoming power first.
Now I am going to retry several power conditioners to see what they do now that my incoming power is up to snuff.
As a side note, I've noticed that the German magazine "Stereo" identifies the electrical phase of the power plug at the end of each review. If you notice, they are all different.
As a builder and tweaker of equipment, checking and correcting the input transformer for proper phasing and lowest noise, is one of the things that is commonly done.
Which leads to the question as to why don't any of the power conditioners have a "phase" switch on each receptacle? (remember inverting cheater plugs to reduce hum and noise?)
 
Mike said:
Dan - have you ever compared the regeneration unit to the conditioner? It's interesting to see the journeys, many of you have tried different types and methodologies of conditioners and then moved on to something else.

I'm curious, how many of you use a device to measure the results? Do you believe the measurements clearly align with what you're hearing?
Click to expand...

Mike.......Yes, I have made a couple of comparisons of passive power conditioning to active AC regeneration. I tried PS Audio's Dectet, as well as using the PS Audio Soloist Premier SE receptacles at the wall with no other conditioners. I have also used the SurgeX FX2 power conditioner and still have it powering my widescreen TV, Oppo UDP-203, and DirecTV satellite receiver in the living room. I borrowed a used McIntosh MPC1500 over a weekend that was traded in to my McIntosh dealer and tried it in the studio system in place of the PurePower 2000. The MPC1500 was disappointing. I could tell no difference with the system plugged directly into the wall versus plugged into the McIntosh power conditioner. I chalked it up to the fact that I already have low THD on my incoming utility power. I wanted to like the MPC1500 but it did not impress me. I have found my best results for improved low noise backgrounds come from AC regeneration. The PS Audio Power Plant Premier's, which I owned four at one point, produced an immediate and audible improvement in being able to hear more clearly the micro details. The newer PS Audio P10 is even better and I prefer its passive cooling. The PurePower 2000 has always been impressive in the studio system helping to deliver an inky black background and no restriction to dynamics. The battery backup is icing on the cake and ensures my Aurender N10 doesn't loose power during occasional utility power interruptions.

I have always been interested in the Torus Isolation Power Conditioners. When I built the studio addition on my home I gave consideration to the Torus wall mount 60 amp model, but ultimately decided on the PurePower 2000 with battery backup. There are so many different routes that can be traveled when it comes to power conditioning it can be dizzying to make a choice on which way to go. I have been quite satisfied with active AC regeneration. It not only allows me to have extremely low THD on the AC to my components, it also affords me automatic voltage regulation. My utility transformer delivers a steady 124 volts to my service panel. Being able to control the voltage at a steady 120 volts to my equipment despite the incoming voltage level is advantageous to me.
 
They all have plusses and minutes, but the proof is in the listening. I have had Richard Gray (I use this for my router and modem in a separate circuit. I just got rid of my Synergistic Research Galleleo power cell 10 in favor of my Audioquest 1000. I will be greeting the 5000 or 7000 though as they are each a step up from each other. They work in my system. I've had Shunyata in the house as well as Nordost, but in the end the AQ is better for my ears. Tonality is spot on and it gives me the blackest background, which to me is very important. I have noticed a shift into the middle of the soundstage when I went from SR to the small AQ. It's tighter, but plenty wide when the music calls for it. Bass also tightened up in my room.

Teh SR is not slouch either and the Shunyata would be my second choice as I loved it in my room.
 
I am using a Topaz Isolation Transformer straight out of a 20 amp dedicated line. Look for a discussion introduced by John Swenson (Uptone Audio) about the correct way to use these. They are available only on Ebay (cheap) and you have to get the right model with an ultra low capacitance rating of .0005. These are unique for that. I believe Swenson stresses these should not be used with a conditioner! See his posts on this for the particulars of how to set it up.

I then run the power from the Topaz to a 12 outlet Richard Gray 1200c which has two large parallel chokes to provide on demand high current and load impedance matching. In comparison to using a conditioner like the Denali and Niagara, I found the RG to provide more dynamics. (I did like the Niagara a lot though.)

I am only running my server, switch, dac and subs through the RG and Topaz as the amps produced too much hum from the Topaz for me. Instead the amps (both speaker and mono's) go to dedicated 20 amp lines.

My wall outlets measure up to 600 mV noise before the Topaz and 70 mV after. Curiously, that figure is 120 mV before turning on my amps. Anyone have an idea why turning on amps would lower the measured line noise?
 
I use a Purepower 1500+ regenerator with battery backup. Where I live in the summertime there are a lot of brown-outs and the unit keeps everything powered up seamlessly when I lose power. I run all my equipment through it even my amps with no loss of dynamics.

You can also run it on pure battery power which gives a little blacker background but leading edges are a little rounded and is less dynamic.
 
I’m using sound apllication conditioner, older model. Not sure which club this brand belong to, i guess passive approach group.

It sound most musical and no dynamic restriction than past conditioners that i tried to.

They may not popular compare to other brand that we used to discuss here, if you have a chance to try, highly recommended to get listen.
 
Symmetrical Power Balanced Transformers by 512 Engineering/Tim Marutani.

This product reduces the noise floor to a value that is lower than any other noise reduction and grounding method I’ve tried before by a significant order of magnitude.

The resulting musical improvement is greater than any other audio component change that has been installed in my system.

With the balanced transformer, music comes alive and as close to a real musical event as I’ve ever heard in my room by far.

Currently have a (demo) 5KVa unit for sources and a 10kVa unit for amps. Awaiting delivery of a high current 10kVa unit that will be used on the amps, and the existing 10kVa unit will be switched to sources.


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What works for me is fixing the nasty power before it gets into your home. Once you and your power company and electrician are satisfied that your ground is proper and the power into your home is clean, then you can start working on wiring , and fancy power conditioners and regenerators. . In my case FPL found a bad transformer feeding my block, my home is the first house on that leg and my ground was not sufficient enough for the sandy soil. Cost FREEBIE
 
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