Brinkmann Nyquist DAC - technical jewel with marvelous sound

[Kuoppis]

Did you ripped this CD ? Do you need any specific software or CD reader to RIP MQA CD's ?

This is the very point: ripped the same way as always, no special SW, no special reader.

I find it pretty cool.


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[Kuoppis]

What I did not know though is that even in MQA CD’s are 16 bit, while streaming and downloads typically are 24 bit.


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[Kuoppis]

Another ripped MQA CD played back via the Nyquist:

Tidal thinks it is 44.1 AIFF, but the DAC decodes it to 176K.

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[Kuoppis]

When observing discussions around MQA, very soon you’ll make an interesting discovery: there is a lots of real anxiety around MQA.

These come mostly from older men who have their system preferences figured out and who do not wish any change. This is as change is uncomfortable, would potentially cause shifts to one’s preferences, require system modifications and take away that ability of riding on a high horse saying been there, did that in 1982, done that. In other words, having the confidence of being in the know.

Because people often genuinely fear change, there is this brutality in the MQA discussion, taking away reason and rational argument. It is fear of loss of control, insecurity about which decisions to make, concern about the long-term value of existing investments or the risk of having to adjust one’s own propositions. I have been there myself as well.

Maybe you remember my postings only a quarter or so back, when I was trying to identify MQA DACs that would be suitable for testing the format. At that point one of my tongue-in-cheek statements was ‘my best MQA option is a new cart’.

About the insecurity perspective, two interesting letters from readers to the editor of the TAS magazine in the current Feb issue: First one stating that streaming is kids stuff, and hence MQA is no good as real men listen to high-res files. And the second one suggesting that because his hearing is getting bad and together with his buddies they do enjoy vinyl, MQA should please focus on the youth with portable devices only. In both cases a somewhat confusing attempt at logic, and not linked to actual qualities, benefits or lack thereof in the MQA encoding scheme.

What the readers describe appear to be different perspectives to the fear of change. Very human, just not very easy to see as an overarching logic why MQA should not be any good. There might be other valid points though, such as if hi-res would be available only in MQA, then everyone planning to enjoy hi-res would need to have an MQA capable DAC. This is similar with DSD, which was equally demonized at the beginning. But an MQA-only world is not foreseeable at this point and there is no indication of such happening. An MQA employee uttering that sort of desire does not yet quite constitute a shift in the industry.

But as stated earlier, I do not see MQA as the holy grail or an absolute superiority in it. As tested and documented, there are albums that sound really good and may even be better than other formats, while there are others which clearly are not. And I am still an absolute vinyl lover, nothing has changed in that respect. But for me as the happy owner of a superior-quality, MQA capable DAC, it is another option. Especially as I am already a Tidal Hi-Fi subscriber anyway.

But the Brinkmann Nyquist is not a MQA DAC per se. It is a reference quality DAC that has made digital in all formats palatable to me again. This is important, as I don’t want to listen to formats, but to music, artists and compositions. The fact that the Nyquist has one of the most comprehensive MQA implementations in the industry, is just an additional benefit and a function of its stunning level of engineering perfection.




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[Kuoppis]

Based on popular demand, another shoot-out of a different kind:

Left corner: Vpi Prime/ Ortofon Cadenza/ Grandinote Celio/ Eagle Engineering PSU motor control.

Right corner: Brinkmann Nyquist.

Conditions: Same material, parallel play via the same system (phono system still with a bit lesser cabling).

Goal: addressing the fact that last time I used a re-master of a 50’s jazz recording. Hence this a 2017 vinyl recording from the ECM label, 180g german engineered, high-quality pressing. For me high a quality vinyl does not equal to a 45 rpm Mo-Fi issue, as I find that to be more of a marketing trick and the 45 rpm LPs with two songs per side in general very annoying. That said, this is also a double LP with two tracks per side, by played at 33 rpm.

Playing the album’s opening track, Opening Day and second piece La Nuit. Reasons for selecting the tracks were that the fine nuances of oud play, piano reproduction, bass lines and cymbal rides allow for characteristic observations.

Vinyl contender today:

PCM 16/44.1 kHz version on Tidal:

MQA 24/96 bit version on Tidal:

Smoothness of sound:
- pretty similar, no glare in either format

Clarity and separation:
- maybe a bit better separation on PCM vs vinyl
- slightly better ambiance and reverberation on vinyl
- best clarity on cymbal ride in MQA, then vinyl, then PCM
- piano definition with similar results compared to cymbal
- testing piano on vinyl vs. MQA on 2nd track confirms the above

Details and resolution:
- very similar on PCM an vinyl
- MQA with slight advantage

Sound coloration
- tonality very similar on PCM, vinyl and MQA

Mids and highs:
- not much difference between PCM, vinyl and MQA

Bass extension:
- a bit better differentiation and depth on vinyl vs. PCM
- still a bit better on MQA

PrAT:
- equal on PCM, vinyl and MQA

In a conclusion, very similar and surprisingly close results. With the Meitner it would not have been anything like this, as its sound signature was much more digital. Also, MQA results could be a result of higher resolution and not MQA encoding as such.

While I preferred vinyl only to PCM, I still think vinyl could easily be on par with or even better than MQA. Let’s keep in mind that while the Nyquist is a top level hi-end DAC, the Vpi is a very good but not top-level vinyl spinner and the Ortofon Cadenza Bronze a very good but not-top level cart.

Therefore it would be interesting to do another shoot-out against a Brinkmann turntable at some point, as those have been used as a reference for voicing the Nyquist. E.g. my secret crush, the Bardo.


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[Kuoppis]

Did see this only today in the Feb 2018 TAS digital issue:

ANDREW QUINT'S BEST OF SHOW

Best Sound (Cost No Object): Sometimes the familiar names are the best—especially when they keep getting better. The Audio Alternative room featured Vandersteen Audio speakers—Model Seven MkII plus Sub Nine subwoofers—VTL amplification, a Brinkmann turntable and DAC, and AudioQuest wires and power conditioners. The retail value of the complete system was headed towards $500,000 when I put down the calculator.

To have the Nyquist being part of the best of show system in the ‘cost no object’ category is of course nice.


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[Kuoppis]

So, about trying out the network side of connections with the Nyquist...

Getting Roon implemented seems like the way to go these days. This is of course given that I don’t want to touch my PC/ Mac when listening to music. I do not want to depend on it or use it in any way. For me networked music needs to come from a NAS or a service like Tidal for it to make sense. While e.g. Audirvana supports MQA as well, I used it in an earlier setup but abandoned it due to regular SW glitches, constant incompatible upgrades etc. and again PC/ Mac involvement would be necessary. Streaming with Roon from a NAS it is then to see how it affects the sound. Not so fast.

Looking into it I learned that the NAS requirements for Roon are almost laughable: getting Rooned-up with a NAS is not as easy as some make appear. This is as you will need almost a semi-professional NAS with a powerful CPU (preferably i5, i7), a 64-bit architecture, min. 2 GB RAM and the Core installed on a separate SDD to ensure good performance. Btw, Synology only released their 64-bit architecture (6.0) in end of last year. This is not your mom & pop NAS.

But I will do it anyway, just the current NAS won’t suffice.


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[aKnyght]

great thread and i will be very interested to hear your experience with network connectivity for the nyquist and what solution you end up choosing.

in thinking about how i would configure a networked connection... for the Roon Core i would be tempted to simply use a headless mac mini upgraded to the i7 chip and 1TB of PCIe flash storage. probably overkill but it somewhat future proofs the box and it could always be used as a nice desktop computer if one decided to take it out of the audio system.

if one is pc rather than mac, then the NAS (QNAP TVS-471) might be the best choice as it can be used as a pc, effectively giving it the same functionality as a mac mini. plus it has 3 other drive bays for on-board storage. however, i would certainly explore the possibility of using the microsoft surface for the Roon Core -- core and mobile control device zone in one pice of equipment.

 

[Kuoppis]

great thread and i will be very interested to hear your experience with network connectivity for the nyquist and what solution you end up choosing.

in thinking about how i would configure a networked connection... for the Roon Core i would be tempted to simply use a headless mac mini upgraded to the i7 chip and 1TB of PCIe flash storage. probably overkill but it somewhat future proofs the box and it could always be used as a nice desktop computer if one decided to take it out of the audio system.

if one is pc rather than mac, then the NAS (QNAP TVS-471) might be the best choice as it can be used as a pc, effectively giving it the same functionality as a mac mini. plus it has 3 other drive bays for on-board storage. however, i would certainly explore the possibility of using the microsoft surface for the Roon Core -- core and mobile control device zone in one pice of equipment.

Thanks, appreciate it.

I had a Mac Mini before and won’t go back at least to a directly connected PC/ Mac solution anytime soon, as the Aurender sounds so much better.

But let’s see how a server based approach works and sounds.


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[Kuoppis]

So here we go: NAS with quad core 2.3 GHz CPU, 4 GB RAM, 64-bit architecture, 275 GB SDD module, 18 TB for storage and RAID 1 setup. Roon Core installed on the NAS SSD, Roon app on the iPad, Nyquist connected via Ethernet to the network with an AudioQuest Vodka.

4 TB DSD and hi-res FLAC from a friend added to my previous AIFF and DSD collection. Roon hooked up to Tidal for MQA + the couple of MQA CDs I have added to the NAS.


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[Kuoppis]

Now a Roon based setup has been added as well: Roon Core installed directly on the fairly high-spec’d NAS to minimize IT between music and playback, library access via Roon iPad client, the Nyquist acting as a streamer and Roon Endpoint, being fed through Ethernet.

Roon setup was ok, but a bit tricky as the instructions were not always clear for the NAS part. This is probably because the Synology Core has been programmed by an external engineer. But once the Core was in place, setting up Tidal and adding own libraries was a breeze. Adding the Nyquist was really easy, as all my devices that could act as Endpoints were automatically displayed in the setup menu. I just named the Nyquist after itself and selected the Endpoint I want to use. The Roon SW even displays a lookalike picture of the Nyquist in the iPad client menu [emoji3].

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[aKnyght]

nice! very straightforward implementation: roon core on external NAS with the the nyquist a roon endpoint. i have not been able to understand why more dacs do not have network capability.

i will be interested to hear how you like this setup. how are you administering the NAS roon core?

 

[Kuoppis]

Here’s an early attempt at a sound comparison: Roon with Core installed on NAS vs. Aurender via USB with Curious silver USB cable. Both playing Tidal MQA.

First up Imelda May:

The Aurender sounds slightly warmer, but also a bit congested, the sound image is more condensed. Roon in comparison sounds more open and spacious with a significant increase in image size. With certain music it feels almost like a surrounding imaging. Both have similar detail level and extension into both frequency extremes, and a very nice mid range.

Second, Pinchas Zukerman:

Again the slightly warmer sound from the Aurender, while that does not mean Roon streaming would be in any way cold, sterile or digital.

I find the streaming to sound more open. It is more spacious, playing against a blacker background. Or there actually is no background, just music. Detail retrieval is also more effortless, bass more clear. Deep frequencies also emerge clear and with great dynamics. Overall it sounds somehow more authentic.

However, the solo violin has maybe very slightly better structure via the Aurender.


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[Kuoppis]

Same setup, but now both playing from the NAS HDD (streaming, Ethernet) and Aurender HDD (direct USB into the DAC):

- Dagefoer, Butterflies, 44.1K AIFF in both cases

While characteristics on both are pretty much the same, Roon from NAS sounds more open and slightly more detailed. Maybe a tad of an advantage for the Roon NAS approach.

- Copland, Saturday Night Walz/ Detroit Symphony Orchestra in DSD64

Not very much difference IMHO, also sound-staging very similar.

What is interesting tough, is that while the same files played from NAS and Aurender do sound very similar and also imaging and sound-staging do not differ much, in Tidal streaming there is a noticeable difference in both sound and imaging. Here the streaming produces better results. Going through the Aurender leads to imaging contraction and slight loss of transparency.

That said, a major minus in Roon is the lack of an ability to identify MQA files, even in my preferred albums. DSD, AIFF, FLAC are tagged correctly, but the MQA tag is omitted. I have understood though, that Roon announced a change in MQA support last week.

Overall I would say there is a lots of additional info in Roon, but the way of organizing needs a bit of getting used to. I don’t like the vertical browsing either, as it takes long to get through 6 GB of albums. Searches also return a bit confusing results, especially when looking for your own physical files.

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[Kuoppis]

nice! very straightforward implementation: roon core on external NAS with the the nyquist a roon endpoint. i have not been able to understand why more dacs do not have network capability.

i will be interested to hear how you like this setup. how are you administering the NAS roon core?

Exactly, just makes it easier and I would assume improves sound quality as well.

So far I don’t see any good reason for having any more boxes in between content and playback than absolutely necessary. In most cases any additional element is causing sound degradation or at least adding of some sound signature.

Have a look at the comparison results in case interested, so far it looks promising.


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[Kuoppis]

After a few days it appears the NAS has settled in and I have the impression the sound is a bit smoother. Need to test it again with more content added to the storage.

The overall first impression with Roon is quite good and will hopefully be improve as soon as they have figured out the MQA integration. I’m not too particular about the unfolding, but tagging of the media would be quite important.


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[bmichels]

The comparaison between AURENDER and ROON is very interesting. I never thought that ROON could beat an AURENDER !


If someone is interested, with 2 other "audio friends", this sunday we tested the Nyquist against the NAGRA HD DAC and the Merging Technology NADAC, and... the results were very different between Speaker and headphone listening.



For headphone, we used mark levinston pré & Amp + B&W800 D3 system, with bi amplification. For headphone, we used my BHSE + Stax 009

Speakers :
-------------

first we compared A/B the Nyquist and the NAGRA. On MQA streaming Nyquist was better than NAGRA, they were equivalent with DSD, but with PCM (IMO) the NAGRA was better. The Nyquist offer al lot of details, but the NAGRA somehow is more pleasing with a larger and more airy presentation.

Then we tried the NADAC, and it was a good surprise, puting it 2 place between the NAGRA (1st place) and the Nyquist. The NADAC is even more detailed than the Nyquist but also offer a better presentation. This leaved the Nyquist 3rd place. But, it is a very very tight results, so when one consider also the Price of the Nyquist, then the Nyquist becomes 1st place in performance/price ratio !

The dealer, which is very experimented, told us that there is no development so far to implement MQA into the NADAC and also recommended to use the original NADAC instead of the new NADAC Player to kept the server processing out of the box, and to use instead a NAS that has enough processing power to run Roon core. He also confirmed that an external clock in in the work.


With headphone
---------------------

we only compared A/B the Nyquist and the NAGRA, and it was much more simple results.... : when switching the input on the BHSE between the 2 dacs, we... could not hear any difference. First we thought that we has wrong cables connection, but... everything was correct. Our conclusion was that, when you reach this level of quality, the only difference between 2 DACs is the positioning of the instruments which is almost negligeable with headphone where the sound is "in the head". Very interesting result...


So...


My final thougt it is that NAGRA is the way to go... if I can find a good 2nd hand unit, otherwise, the Nyquist is so far the best price/performance ratio (expecialy when using headphone) with some valuable added features like MQA, LAN connection and upgrability.

I am however considering now another solution : I have since 2 years the original Auralic Aries which please me a lot, expecially their software management that is very powerfull and offer booth Tidal and Qobuz integration. (their Lightning DS software was very unstable first year, but now it is solid). You can even have a playlist with inside some local files, some streaming from Tidal and some streaming from Qobuz. And they have their own MQA decoding (un-licenced). The aries can either use the Auralic software or... can be used as a very good Roon ready end-point.

So... I am considering their STACK : ARIES G2 + VEGA G2 DAC + LEO G2 External clock ( + may be if I find it usefull their "soon to come" SIRIUS G2 " upsampler + Room correction). The whole stack uses a proprietary " Lightning Link' connection between the G2 elements to avoid USB. The ARIES G2 + VEGA G2 DAC is around 10 K€ and you have a server + a DAC for that price. You can even insert a 2,5 " HD or SSD inside the ARIES G2 if you do not want to use external USB HD or a NAS.

I will need to have a listening at the ARIES G2 + VEGA G2 DAC combo.... has anyone listened to them already ?



PS : here is what AURALIC support just answered me about my questions : " The main purpose of Sirius is for very high resolution DSD upsampling. The measured performance will be way ahead of any other DSD upsampling software on the market today ( PCM has its own flaw and low rate DSD has its flaw as well. PCM to DSD conversation request huge CPU power to do it right. Once you have done it right, it will make DAC working in a more ideal condition and that will improve the sound quality a lot. If VEGA G2 is feed by high resolution DSD then it will sound better. The ideal DSD rate that VEGA G2 works best is DSD256 and DSD512). SIRIUS also handle room correction which is a function we are right now working in progress.

The LEO on the other hand will be available very soon and this product work only with VEGA G2. It will bring VEGA G2’s sound quality to next step due to the very high resolution internal clock.

ARIES G2 has internal storage bay that allows you to install HDD or SSD by yourself. No special tool is required to add the storage. The current capacity is 2TB for internal storage and we are moving the limitation to 16TB by next firmware release. The maximum 2.5TB HDD you can get from the market today is 5TB. I think SSD will be better but it is way more expensive."

 

[Kuoppis]

The comparaison between AURENDER and ROON is very interesting. I never thought that ROON could beat an AURENDER !

For headphone, we used mark levinston pré & Amp + B&W800 D3 system, with bi amplification. For headphone, we used my BHSE + Stax 009

Speakers :
-------------

first we compared A/B the Nyquist and the NAGRA. On MQA streaming Nyquist was better than NAGRA, they were equivalent with DSD, but with PCM (IMO) the NAGRA was better. The Nyquist offer al lot of details, but the NAGRA somehow is more pleasing with a larger and more airy presentation.

Then we tried the NADAC, and it was a good surprise, puting it 2 place between the NAGRA (1st place) and the Nyquist. The NADAC is even more detailed than the Nyquist but also offer a better presentation. This leaved the Nyquist 3rd place. But, it is a very very tight results, so when one consider also the Price of the Nyquist, then the Nyquist becomes 1st place in performance/price ratio !

The dealer, which is very experimented, told us that there is no development so far to implement MQA into the NADAC and also recommended to use the original NADAC instead of the new NADAC Player to kept the server processing out of the box, and to use instead a NAS that has enough processing power to run Roon core. He also confirmed that an external clock in in the work.


With headphone
---------------------

we only compared A/B the Nyquist and the NAGRA, and it was much more simple results.... : when switching the input on the BHSE between the 2 dacs, we... could not hear any difference. First we thought that we has wrong cables connection, but... everything was correct. Our conclusion was that, when you reach this level of quality, the only difference between 2 DACs is the positioning of the instruments which is almost negligeable with headphone where the sound is "in the head". Very interesting result...

So... my final thougt it is that NAGRA is the way to go... if I can find a good 2nd hand unit, otherwise, the Nyquist is so far the best price/performance ratio (expecialy when using headphone) with some valuable added features like MQA, LAN connection and upgrability.

Thank you so much for sharing, this was a super-interesting line-up you guys assembled! Pretty tough competitors.

The Nagra HD and the Merging have been on my radar as well, both superb products. But with the Merging I was not too sure about their tech roadmap (no MQA so far) and the Nagra is yet another 10K more expensive than the Nyquist. The Merging Nadac was also very positively reviewed in the 2/18 Stereoplay issue. They’re not cheap any of them, but I guess if you want hi-end you have to pay for hi-end.

It is also interesting that the results were so close, just shows how tight the race is in the top-end. I could frankly speaking live with any of the three candidates.

Also the Nagra/ Nyquist headphone A/B comparison is interesting, just showing that the differences in sound characteristics can be a result of a number of factors.

I have an Aries Mini as well, but that is not in contention here. Unfortunately I have not heard the Aurender G2/ LEO yet.

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[Kuoppis]

The comparaison between AURENDER and ROON is very interesting. I never thought that ROON could beat an AURENDER !

The Roon setup is pretty much following HW requirements on the Roon website. Setting it up on a NAS you just happen to have available will most likely not even work, as it will require a strong processor, a 64-bit architecture and a SSD to run the core.

As described, file playback from NAS and Aurender were pretty much comparable, but Tidal was better via the NAS. Might have to do with better streaming connectivity from the NAS over Ethernet.


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[bmichels]

The Roon setup is pretty much following HW requirements on the Roon website. Setting it up on a NAS you just happen to have available will most likely not even work, as it will require a strong processor, a 64-bit architecture and a SSD to run the core.

As described, file playback from NAS and Aurender were pretty much comparable, but Tidal was better via the NAS. Might have to do with better streaming connectivity from the NAS over Ethernet.


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I was thinking using using the sonictransporter-i7 with ROOM pre-installed. Do you think it is a good solution ?

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/...ansporter-i7-for-roon-dsp?variant=35324041615