Big changes at Audio Research (again)

ggdudeabides said:
The mystery of the hi end audio industry. Given the numerous positive reviews of Acora, Val may have been tempted to sell when the departure is timely and profitable. If they did increase prices, it would not be surprising. Seems to be the current trend in hi end audio. Maybe someone can provide the rational for such action. Greed? Higher manufacturers costs? They think their market will not be disouraged from adsorbing the price increase? Another reason?

In any event, this trend is very dubious ( I think arrogant and self defeating) to expand their market and only cater to the uber wealthy. The death knell of this industry in my view. Why can't companies follow the Magnepan pricing model? Are their other hi end companies that have a similar philosphy?
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I needd to check some current info, last I saw they did introduce a new integrated that was supposed to sell around $5k. They also introduced a solid state amp and preamp, if memory serves they were in the $10k range give or take. Also a tube preamp in the same price range. That's not exactly entry level pricing but it's more accessible than the Reference stuff. Again I haven't seen pricing in a long time at the time the 160m was introduced those were $30k and IMO they were a comparative bargain at that price. They aren't the only company going for the 1%.
 
ls3 ss preamp about $7500.00
ls2 Tube preamp about $8500.00
s100 100x2 200x2 into 4 ohms about $9500
s200 200x2 into 8 ohms 400 into 4 ohms this amp has VU meters and differentially balanced about $13k
The s100 I believe is also balanced.
There is also the i70 integrated I didn't get a price.

Imo these are competitive products and prices. I'd love to hear the ss gear to get a feel. The tube pre with a ss power could be a nice combo.
 
Thanks for the pricing info. The i70 is $10K. The i50 is $6,500. Appears AR is market sensitive creating products at a more affordable price point. Unfortunately, still a 1% price tag for many folks. I also question their desired market segment. But I understand why given AR's sound qualtity / design standards and manufacturing costs. Certainly a step in the right direction and I really hope it increases sales / profits and long term company viabilty.
 
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ggdudeabides said:
Thanks for the pricing info. The i70 is $10K. The i50 is $6,500. Appears AR is market sensitive creating products at a more affordable price point. Unfortunately, still a 1% price tag for many folks. I also question their desired market segment. But I understand why given AR's sound qualtity / design standards and manufacturing costs. Certainly a step in the right direction and I really hope it increases sales / profits and long term company viabilty.
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ARC has never tried to compete in the entry level. They have historically offered an integrated. They aren't the only one. It just depends on where a company sees their product in the market.

Many companies who get down in the entry level area face difficult with respect to their higher end products. May not be right but it's fact. Brands like Onkyo, Yamaha and others struggle with higher end products due to the lower end products. Marantz seems to navigate this about as well as anyone I think it's due to their Reference branding. Other brands try to distinguish products apart like Pioneer Elite or Sony ES. My guess is most high end brands also don't have the resources for a broad line of products like some of the larger corps.

Yamaha offers integrated amp starting around $399.00. I was very impressed by their $8k integrated driving their own speakers. IMO that system playing beyond its class. I don't know how sales are for those products my impression they don't get the respect they deserve because of the Yamaha name and consumers knowing of the entry level offerings.

That's my take FWIW :)

I haven't found any statement from Acora or ARC on the purchase, change, whatever happened. I can only assume it wasn't amicable.
 
Mr. Peabody. Thank you for your interest and input on my posts. Much appreciated. Do u know how AR going to market and sell their lower cost products given the limited number of dealers? Open a website and sell direct? Wouldn't that be an interesting concept to sell hi end audio products.
 
ggdudeabides said:
Mr. Peabody. Thank you for your interest and input on my posts. Much appreciated. Do u know how AR going to market and sell their lower cost products given the limited number of dealers? Open a website and sell direct? Wouldn't that be an interesting concept to sell hi end audio products.
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I suspect AR will continue supporting a dealer network.

Off the top of my head Cary Audio used to have dealers, I think they still have some, they went to a direct to consumer model. There are a number of companies who sell direct Cary is different in that they switched.

Some other companies allow sales through internet retailers. You can find brands like Mark Levinson, McIntosh and others online. More specialized online retailers like musicdirect have even more high end brands.

Interestingly Sound Advice bought a established local store and made it their own. I wonder if B&M stores could be making a comeback. Something to watch.
 
ggdudeabides said:
The mystery of the hi end audio industry. Given the numerous positive reviews of Acora, Val may have been tempted to sell when the departure is timely and profitable. If they did increase prices, it would not be surprising. Seems to be the current trend in hi end audio. Maybe someone can provide the rational for such action. Greed? Higher manufacturers costs? They think their market will not be disouraged from adsorbing the price increase? Another reason?

In any event, this trend is very dubious ( I think arrogant and self defeating) to expand their market and only cater to the uber wealthy. The death knell of this industry in my view. Why can't companies follow the Magnepan pricing model? Are their other hi end companies that have a similar philosphy?
Click to expand...
I had an interesting discussion about the ever higher pricing strategy with a manufacturer friend at the last THE show in LA. Essentially he told me that pricing high end gear is a tricky business. If one puts too low a price on the product, the consumer believes that the product lacks merit, regardless of quality or ability! Since there is a very small consumer base in this hobby, it is therefore required to place a very high price on each product...as this not only insures that the piece will be well thought of and desired, but also that each piece sold will garner maximum return! Price to desirability are therefore connected. This would seem to me to be very shortsighted, as the old economic idea of selling high volume and lower prices vs. lower volume at higher prices ( and thus less potential for overall sales growth and return), is not a factor in the current high end strategy. A couple of reasons my friend expanded on: One, the small manufacturer cannot meet high demand due to manufacturing restrictions and Two, the small manufacturer does not have the capital required to ramp up to large capacity.
Therefore, we now see a continuing upward spiral of prices that will essentially limit the market to just a few very well heeled consumers. The products will be less and less available to the less well heeled, unless they are interested in mass market type goods.
Not a great situation, but one that does make some sense.
 
It does make sense from an illogical, perverse perspective. Not yours, theirs. It assumes there are enough one percenters to maintain company viability. Some examples that don't interest the well off. One company that comes to mind that keeps prices competitive (affordable to most) but have enough volume to survive is Magnepan. Luxman is another that offers a very hi price / point value given the outstanding product quality. Hegel is another example. And many small cable companies when compared to the silly priced hi end variety. My point is it can be done without an exorbitant pricing structure. Seems like greed and prestige may be a major driving factor for some (most?) brands that cater to the well off.
 
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ggdudeabides said:
It does make sense from an illogical, perverse perspective. Not yours, theirs. It assumes there are enough one percenters to maintain company viability. Some examples that don't interest the well off. One company that comes to mind that keeps prices competitive (affordable to most) but have enough volume to survive is Magnepan. Luxman is another that offers a very hi price / point value given the outstanding product quality. Hegel is another example. And many small cable companies when compared to the silly priced hi end variety. My point is it can be done without an exorbitant pricing structure. Seems like greed and prestige may be a major driving factor for some (most?) brands that cater to the well off.
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I think many high end audio consumers do not use their ears, instead they shop with their eyes and believe that the higher the asking price, the better the product. This is essentially what the manufacturer was relating to me at the show. I think he is correct in his belief.
Magnepan are well respected, but they are also generally not considered as among the best speakers available regardless of price ( even if that might be the case!) Their pricing policy probably keeps them from some sales, but also puts them within reach of a wider audience.
 
Pearce Harrison said:
I think many high end audio consumers do not use their ears, instead they shop with their eyes and believe that the higher the asking price, the better the product. This is essentially what the manufacturer was relating to me at the show. I think he is correct in his belief.
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Agreed Pearce. Taking this to is illogical conclusion, mid fi companies like Marantz should raise their prices to attract hi end buyers.
 
I've noticed a couple of high end European brands try the 'raise price' strategy without adding value, and watched dealers drop them, because (a) all of a sudden, they found themselves in competition with more formidable brands/offerings at the new price level and (b) it was making prospects interested in buying at the old price level angry (no added value). In the end, the market decides.
 
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Both very good reasons. I wish there was more "value" crtiteria that you mention above used by US high end retailers. The issue, I believe, is that some large stores are "committed" to carry certain well established manufacturers (and can't or won't sell others) so the decision of "dumping" a brand and going elsewhere becomes more nuanced. Whatever you think of him, that is one positive aspect of Jay's Audio Lab.
 
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GSOphile said:
I've noticed a couple of high end European brands try the 'raise price' strategy without adding value, and watched dealers drop them, because (a) all of a sudden, they found themselves in competition with more formidable brands/offerings at the new price level and (b) it was making prospects interested in buying at the old price level angry (no added value). In the end, the market decides.
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Most of the price increases from European brands are due to two major factors. I am not defending anyone just ttrying to explain as I am an importer and distributor as well as a delaer.
The value of the dollar versus the Euro has fluctuated a lot since I got involved from 1.06 to 1.22 over the last few years. FOr those who's math skills are not great that can be huge swings 5-15 percent is huge. Since Covid shipping costs have gotten crazy and now with the situation in Ukraine and the Middle East its gotten worse. Then there are tarriffs.
I am not making any statement politically or what's right or wrong only that these are bigtime factors in price not only for the US importing but for these manufacturers buying parts and supplies from all over the world.
Are there bad actors? I am sure there are some that take advantage but the facts are the facts. Most companies , the good ones, want to be fair and competitive.
 
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