Best Pure Musical Amplifiers (power not important)

[MPW]

Doubt the distortion spectra is anything like Ralph's OTL amps , just saying .........

The sound of a well designed amp is determined mostly , by ( simply put) the load its driving and clipping characteristics ( lack thereof or recovery ) so not surprised when one beats another since most not really level matching when comparing..


Glad you are enjoying them




Regards ..

Don’t want to put words in Ralph’s mouth, but he has described the Class D’s as having nearly identical distortion spectra as his OTL’s.

 

[rbbert]

...I am most interested in what you believe are the most musical amplifiers that you have heard... the ones that pull you in and make you loose track of everything else but the music...

...So just curious if other people have any amps that gave them that special something that helped them forget the world for a while; again, watts per channel is not a criteria here.

Since this thread has been resurrected I am giving in to my gadfly inclinations and will ask: how is this (the OP excerpted above) significantly different from just asking "what are your favorite amps"?

I also notice that Randy's signature does not include some of the amps he mentioned as liking, earlier in this thread. Any updates on that?

 

[a.wayne]

Don’t want to put words in Ralph’s mouth, but he has described the Class D’s as having nearly identical distortion spectra as his OTL’s.

Would love to see some bench measurements on both ..!

 

[Feanor]

It's puzzling to me to understand what "musical" actually means, (though I have my suspicions). It's a purely subjective term -- not that there's anything wrong with subjectivity except that it provides no basis for comparison amongst people's preferences.

My preference run to detail, "air", transparency, and crisp dynamics. (Hope that's a little more descriptive that simply "musical".) IMO, that invariably means that what I hear is maximum fidelity to the sound as recorded. The unfortunate downside is that poor recordings are starkly revealed as such.

My best amp in terms of my own criteria is my current VTV Purifi Stereo amp with VTV I/O buffers with Sparkos SS3602 op amps installed.

 

[mep]

It's puzzling to me to understand what "musical" actually means, (though I have my suspicions). It's a purely subjective term -- not that there's anything wrong with subjectivity except that it provides no basis for comparison amongst people's preferences.

My preference run to detail, "air", transparency, and crisp dynamics. (Hope that's a little more descriptive that simply "musical".) IMO, that invariably means that what I hear is maximum fidelity to the sound as recorded. The unfortunate downside is that poor recordings are starkly revealed as such.

My best amp in terms of my own criteria is my current VTV Purifi Stereo amp with VTV I/O buffers with Sparkos SS3602 op amps installed.

View attachment 32272

Please define "crisp" dynamics. Is the opposite of crisp dynamics soggy dynamics?

 

[Kingrex]

I think its a different question to ask what is your favorite and what is musical. I have an 845 SET smp that has ground issues. If I listen to long to it or an 805 amp I have on loan, I get Enough of them and turn them off. I'm not fatigued, I have just had enough. I also have my Dartzeel that can just play and play and always sounds great.

If you played the 845 and Dartzeel back to back. There is no way you would not immediately notice the 845/805 is shocking more natural and true to the sound of a piano, stringed instrument, reed insteument. It's very apparent. In my book, musical had some basis in being true to the sound of a non amplified musical instrument. Its not all, but a big piece.

Hence, the big bottle tubes are musical, but not necessarily my favorite.

 

[Feanor]

Please define "crisp" dynamics. Is the opposite of crisp dynamics soggy dynamics?

Haha! :happy: Well yes actually, pretty much non-soggy dynamics -- not dull, not inarticulate, not just loud, not lacking in detail. Does that help?

I'm into the realm of what some have called "micro-dynamics", not the loud stuff, but the fine details of dynamics. I think this related to what the Brit used to call "PRaT", (pace, rhythm, and timing); though mind you, I've always considered the term to be silly: pace, rhythm, and timing are attributes of the music and performance, not playback.

Now back to "musical": what's your personal definition?

 

[a.wayne]

I think its a different question to ask what is your favorite and what is musical. I have an 845 SET smp that has ground issues. If I listen to long to it or an 805 amp I have on loan, I get Enough of them and turn them off. I'm not fatigued, I have just had enough. I also have my Dartzeel that can just play and play and always sounds great.

If you played the 845 and Dartzeel back to back. There is no way you would not immediately notice the 845/805 is shocking more natural and true to the sound of a piano, stringed instrument, reed insteument. It's very apparent. In my book, musical had some basis in being true to the sound of a non amplified musical instrument. Its not all, but a big piece.

Hence, the big bottle tubes are musical, but not necessarily my favorite.

They would be if they were not clipping ......

 

[Mr Peabody]

Musical to me is not the most accurate. I've heard amps that I'd consider accurate but was not involving when listening. Maybe the opposite of "musical" is "sterile".

In the amps I've heard Conrad Johnson is my poster boy for musical. The presentation has a way of reaching me emotionally and I hear the PRAT, I like to say it breathes soul into the music. Why don't you have CJ? See above. I listen to Rock, Metal and fusion amongst other things, some call CJ "romantic", romance doesn't render the best Metal presentation. I had a similar experience with Pass. I like both CJ and Pass just not as my mainstay. The Levinson amp by comparison made my Pass amp sound polite and some sluggish. Not to get of topic but to be fair the Pass had attributes the Levinson was lacking, less texture, less density and the like. Come to preference.

For now Levinson is my sweet spot delivering both the speed and dynamics of what I look for and smooth with enough PRAT to be considered musical by me, it has a foot on both sides. The newer amp more so than my prior ML.

I used the above as example and my taste, anyone can take the same sentences and insert other names to fit their experience and likes.

I think most listen to music as some type of emotional experience, whether love of the music or something else. This should mean the system you use for playback should accentuate that experience.

 

[rbbert]

It is still not clear to me why someone would want to listen to music using an amplifier that is not "musical"

 

[mep]

It is still not clear to me why someone would want to listen to music using an amplifier that is not "musical"

It all depends on how people define the term and that's one of the problems with communication in this hobby.

 

[Mr Peabody]

Maybe they have yet to hear any amp that touched them in a way that inspired them to pursue anything that sounds better. People also listen at different depths, I was surprised on a thread here how many admit to doing something else while listening. I say that because I am between my speakers when listening, with full attention.

And, I agree, describing sound is a moving target. One of the magazines had a audiophile dictionary of a large group of words. Unfortunately it was in my favorites on a computer that I no longer have.

It is still not clear to me why someone would want to listen to music using an amplifier that is not "musical"

 

[Feanor]

Harley Lovegrove posted a really interesting video the other day on the Purifi amplifier by VTV.

Part 1: The perfect power amplifier? - YouTube

I'm intrigued by this amp; has anyone any experience with these?

Oh, oh, I have :hey:

Lovegrove nails a number of key points:

• Yep, the Purifi 1ET400A is just about perfect on its own.
• The necessary I/O buffer will influence the sound.
• Perfection isn't what very many people actually want.

Or to say the same thing a different way, what a lot of people what is a bit of distortion added to the inherent sound of the recording. Ultimately it isn't mysterious: moderate 2nd and/or 3rd order distortion sounds pleasant. It may also mask other, nasty forms of distortion in the playback change, and even imperfections in the recording itself.

Certainly 2nd/3rd harmonics are the core issue, but just how much and how much of each, etc., are a matter of personal choice. In the case of the Purifi amp, Lovegrove suggests correctly enough that choice of buffer could be the way to tune the distortion products to one's taste.

Personally I think the way and place to "tune" distortion to taste is the preamp stage. And a way to look at that is that I don't believe in layering distorting components in the playback chain. Put 'em in one place: the preamp.

So in case of my own VTV Purifi amp, I chose VTV's own buffer without the tube and rolled a few op amps to find which I preferred. In my case it was the Sparkos SS3602 op amps. I won't get into the characteristics of each op amp I tried, but in the end I felt that that Sparkos was the cleanest and most neutral. Upstream I have my Sonic Frontiers Line 1 SE+ preamp which does add some "tube goodness", (i.e. friendly distortion). I rolled a few tubes there and settled on my preference.

BTW, Warren Coleman of VTV is a really stand-up guy when it comes to customer service.

 

[a.wayne]

System expectations and Load being driven will determine if Lovegrove got it right, aside and considering the very colored and high distortion speakers he is using in the video , to pair with the VTV, hard to say ....




Regards

 

[Feanor]

Maybe they have yet to hear any amp that touched them in a way that inspired them to pursue anything that sounds better. People also listen at different depths, I was surprised on a thread here how many admit to doing something else while listening. I say that because I am between my speakers when listening, with full attention.

And, I agree, describing sound is a moving target. One of the magazines had a audiophile dictionary of a large group of words. Unfortunately it was in my favorites on a computer that I no longer have.

I think that's a very good point about listening depth. Like you, I seem to listen with a good deal of attention and I can see that it might affect one's equipment preferences. Listening more attentively would seem to ask for more detail, more accurate instrument harmonics, and the like.

The other big factor, IMO, is one's taste in genre. Personally I listen to mostly Classical music including orchestral music and large-scale choral music. This sort of music demands the maximum in detail, transparency, and large- and small-scale dynamics.

 

[a.wayne]

Interesting , we found class D amps to be least effective on classical music, good on electronic music and Jazz ..

 

[Feanor]

Interesting , we found class D amps to be least effective on classical music, good on electronic music and Jazz ..

No doubt personal preference play a big role. What class D amps did you try? Which aspects of the class D sound made the good Electronic and Jazz, and not so great for Classical?

As I mentioned, for Classical, especially orchestral & choral, I like the detail, air, transparency, and micro-dynamics I'm getting from my Purifi amp. Bass too is the best I've heard in terms of depth and articulation.

 

[pietpara]

I also agree that equipment preferences and describing quality of sound depends on your method of listening or experiencing music, including genres. I guess everyone, also audiophiles, do this differently due to all kinds of reasons, like education, experiences, the wiring of your brain etc. Even your emotional state makes a difference in your perception. Also, how trained your ears are to hear subtleties makes a difference; e.g. comparing to my son, wife or brother, whom I need to explain what to listen for before they start to have a "aha" experience.
Personally, I enjoy music most intensely and appreciate the high-end being of the equipment most strongly, when I listen for a while, not interrupted, able to get into a, I described it as, almost meditative state. That's when the engagement with the sound, the music the artist created, all details of the recording and its translation by the equipment are blissful. The auditory senses take lead over the others.

I would also like to add that it’s not only with the classical music genre that the maximum of dynamics, transparency and detail are demanded. There's plenty of electronic or rock music that you experience at a different level with such characteristics of your equipment.

Cheers

 

[Feanor]

I also agree that equipment preferences and describing quality of sound depends on your method of listening or experiencing music, including genres. I guess everyone, also audiophiles, do this differently due to all kinds of reasons, like education, experiences, the wiring of your brain etc. Even your emotional state makes a difference in your perception. Also, how trained your ears are to hear subtleties makes a difference; e.g. comparing to my son, wife or brother, whom I need to explain what to listen for before they start to have a "aha" experience.
Personally, I enjoy music most intensely and appreciate the high-end being of the equipment most strongly, when I listen for a while, not interrupted, able to get into a, I described it as, almost meditative state. That's when the engagement with the sound, the music the artist created, all details of the recording and its translation by the equipment are blissful. The auditory senses take lead over the others.

I would also like to add that it’s not only with the classical music genre that the maximum of dynamics, transparency and detail are demanded. There's plenty of electronic or rock music that you experience at a different level with such characteristics of your equipment.

Cheers

Thank you, pietpara. I think we're on the same page in terms of the various factors that determine our equipment priorities.

Classical is my thing, but I don't doubt that at least some other genres benefit from "the maximum of dynamics, transparency and detail". But equally I believe that these qualities are less critical for others, at least depending on listening habits.

 

[Feanor]

System expectations and Load being driven will determine if Lovegrove got it right, aside and considering the very colored and high distortion speakers he is using in the video , to pair with the VTV, hard to say ....

Regards

I certainly agree about Lovegrove's speakers.

As load I assume you mean speaker impedances across the FR. In that respect the Purifi 1ET400A module is highly load tolerant which could not be said for all early class D designs. As I understand, the Purifi will handle down 2 ohms for moderate periods, overheating being the main constraint. Also the output impedance is ridiculously low: less than 65 micro-ohms @ 1 kHz according to specs. This means 'damping factor' is absurdly high, >100,000 (-- which won't be to everyone's preference though).