Best High Efficiency Speaker for the Money ?

I'm dying to hear the Spatials...the Holograms. I don't like the ones with the built in sub-woofer. I don't like any speakers with built in sub-woofers. I'm not a big bass guy. I like tight, musical, clean bass where it should be at the right quantity. I want to hear the notes not a bunch of rumble.
 
Built in sub does not equal a bunch of rumble, especially from a dipole!

Well, I had a hell of a time fighting with the Golden Ear Tritons I tried out at first. Even with the sub all the way down it was still a bit much. I finally discovered that the subs can be unplugged separately, but when I did that the speakers sounded lifeless. That of course led me to like them better with the sub turned all the way down.

I just don't want to have to fight with speakers to get them to sound half way decent, especially at that price point, so that left a sour taste in my mouth.
That said though, you may be right as there are far too many different speaker designs out there and one is bound to work.
 
I'm dying to hear the Spatials...the Holograms. I don't like the ones with the built in sub-woofer. I don't like any speakers with built in sub-woofers. I'm not a big bass guy. I like tight, musical, clean bass where it should be at the right quantity. I want to hear the notes not a bunch of rumble.
When you get the chance to audition the Spatial Audiograms I think you will be surprised at how good the bass of these speakers is.
In my opinion the bass of the Spatial Holograms is one of their very best features. It is very tight and very musical. Nothing boomy or one note about it. And, to my ear, the timbral accuracy is excellent. This is the type of bass that I have been seeking for quite a long time now.
 
When you get the chance to audition the Spatial Audiograms I think you will be surprised at how good the bass of these speakers is.
In my opinion the bass of the Spatial Holograms is one of their very best features. It is very tight and very musical. Nothing boomy or one note about it. And, to my ear, the timbral accuracy is excellent. This is the type of bass that I have been seeking for quite a long time now.

If I ever get a chance to hear them and it is how you describe, I will be surprised and/or like it.:)
 
When you get the chance to audition the Spatial Audiograms I think you will be surprised at how good the bass of these speakers is.
In my opinion the bass of the Spatial Holograms is one of their very best features. It is very tight and very musical. Nothing boomy or one note about it. And, to my ear, the timbral accuracy is excellent. This is the type of bass that I have been seeking for quite a long time now.

I heard the Spatials at RMAF and they were truly one of the best bangs for the $ there. Shamed many of the grossly overpriced big box designs. 100 db efficient, tube friendly, room friendly, wallet friendly and inviting to all genres of music....not just girl and guitar. I'm strongly considering their in- home audition in the near future.
 
If I ever get a chance to hear them and it is how you describe, I will be surprised and/or like it.:)

I hope you get the chance to hear them at some point and then share your impressions. Because of the way you describe your preference with respect to bass reproduction, I am interested in seeing if your impression matches mine.
 
I heard the Spatials at RMAF and they were truly one of the best bangs for the $ there. Shamed many of the grossly overpriced big box designs. 100 db efficient, tube friendly, room friendly, wallet friendly and inviting to all genres of music....not just girl and guitar. I'm strongly considering their in- home audition in the near future.

I find them to be very room friendly. In my room I have tried them in several different positions and they never fail to sound really good. Adrian feels that in his room they need to be some distance from the walls. But in my room I have them very close to the walls and they sound great that way also.
Did you also hear the Emerald Physics speakers? I think they were showing two different models. If you did hear them, how do you think they compared to the Holograms?
 
I think I could live with either, but didn't spend nearly as much time listening to the Emeralds. The Emeralds that were being played came in at a much higher price point I believe. Not sure they match the efficiency specs of the Spatial either. The Spatials just seemed to check all the right boxes plus a 45 day in-home audition sounded very attractive. This all said, there's still a few issues that have to be clarified. First being the 4 ohm nominal impedance statement in their specs. I really wanted to see " 4 ohm minimal" as I use tube amplification. Maybe they have a tube friendly impedance curve as Clayton stated, but I've got to verify for sure. Also I believe there is a restocking fee if you return the speakers. I don't think I'd ever return them based on what I heard at RMAF, but one never knows until they're actually in your room. I have a very small listening room ( 11 x 11) and the only speaker that has 100% worked in that room has been an Ohm 1000. The Soundfield Monitor 1's also do fine in this small setting, but not quite the equal of the 1000's. When I spoke with Clayton about room size, he felt they would work fine in a small room, but.....? Research continues and your thoughts would be appreciated.
 
Mick

You do need to clarify with Clayton what the restocking fee consists of as that was not there before. Kind of contradicts the statement of "experience the Hologram in your own home without risk" statement. If Clayton is not careful he is going to "kill off" a good idea before it takes hold with his "conditions" and price increases. I would really like to take advantage of the "in home" audition, but his website pricing and policies have kind of become a moving target lately. To my way of looking at it not a good think for a "new" company. Having dealers and ID at the same time is a tricky thing.
 
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I'll investigate the restocking fee this week when Clayton returns. If it's something like 15%, that would be rather brutal combined with two or three hundred bucks in shipping charges coming and going. Not without risk for sure. The impedance statement lurks as well, so there's still work to do before my credit card heats up.
 
Mick

You do need to clarify with Clayton what the restocking fee consists of as that was not there before. Kind of contradicts the statement of "experience the Hologram in your own home without risk" statement. If Clayton is not careful he is going to "kill off" a good idea before it takes hold with his "conditions" and price increases. I would really like to take advantage of the "in home" audition, but will not "play games" with a new company trying to make a quick buck.

And folks wonder why I don't do in-home demos? Shipping + restock fee can really add up just to try something that may not work out for you and then have to return it. In this case, for me it would be around $80 to $90 shipping one way + $250 to $600 restock fee (assuming 10% to 20% restock fee which is standard practice) so that's $410 minimum to try them in home.
Now, in my opinion there is nothing wrong with doing this if you can afford it as it is the very best way to check out gear, but I can't even dream of affording this and it would not be worth doing anyway if one was not in the market for said gear.
 
And folks wonder why I don't do in-home demos?

Because you told us previously that you weren't in the market to purchase them and you couldn't afford them anyway? Or was it because you inflated the cost of shipping the speakers to your house from $80 to $1000 to make it seem totally unreasonable?
 
I think I could live with either, but didn't spend nearly as much time listening to the Emeralds. The Emeralds that were being played came in at a much higher price point I believe. Not sure they match the efficiency specs of the Spatial either. The Spatials just seemed to check all the right boxes plus a 45 day in-home audition sounded very attractive. This all said, there's still a few issues that have to be clarified. First being the 4 ohm nominal impedance statement in their specs. I really wanted to see " 4 ohm minimal" as I use tube amplification. Maybe they have a tube friendly impedance curve as Clayton stated, but I've got to verify for sure. Also I believe there is a restocking fee if you return the speakers. I don't think I'd ever return them based on what I heard at RMAF, but one never knows until they're actually in your room. I have a very small listening room ( 11 x 11) and the only speaker that has 100% worked in that room has been an Ohm 1000. The Soundfield Monitor 1's also do fine in this small setting, but not quite the equal of the 1000's. When I spoke with Clayton about room size, he felt they would work fine in a small room, but.....? Research continues and your thoughts would be appreciated.

Hi Mick,

My listening room is 12 ft. wide by 16.7 ft. long by 9.9 ft. high (approximately 1980 cubic feet). According to some sources I have read, this would be considered a small medium sized room.
I live in Italy where very little is made of wood so this room has stone/marble floors and plaster walls and ceiling. The wall to the left of me (as i face the speakers) has, in the last 3rd of the wall (the part farthest from the speakers), a 7.8 ft. by 6.9 ft. picture window. The wall to the right of me has a door made of wood frame and large glass panels... much more glass than wood. This door is at the same relative position as the picture window and is just about the same size. On the wall behind me there is, way to the left of me, a smaller door which is one third wood (the lower third) and two thirds glass (the upper two thirds).

As you can imagined, when this room was devoid of any furniture or rug it was a sonically a very live room, to say the least.

Other than just furnishing the room I have done no specific acoustic treatments. I have a large leather armchair and a two seat leather divan (where my listening position is located). On the floor I have placed a largish persian rug (which still leaves a relatively large space... 2.6 ft... of stone floor exposed on every side). I have rather thick drapes on the picture window and much thinner drapes on the entrance door (and I hardly ever close them).
I have not covered the door going out to the terrace at all.
In each corner of the front wall (the ones behind the speakers) I have placed a CD holder which is 6.5 ft. tall, 8 inches wide and 8 inches deep (these are the ones that IKEA sells). These CD holders are not placed flush with either wall but rather are set kitty corner. I have them set this way to help attenuate any possible bass issues. On the wall behind me i have hung a small persian rug (33 inches by 50 inches).

The room, set up this way... without any other treatments... has served me through 4 different speaker systems and the sound was actually pretty good in that I seemed to have no significant issues.
Then a couple of years ago, when I was running my Gallo Reference 3.5 speakers (the ones I was using prior to purchasing the Hologram M2s) I decided to try the Spatial Audio HD room correction and I discovered that it was indeed needed. The improvement was really significant and I was able to hear, for the first time, just what my system was capable of. The sound went from good to really great.

Although the intention is to have Clayton do the room correction for the M2s up to now no correction has been effected. The correction that was done for the 3.5s is useless with the M2s, so I am totally bypassing Spatial HD.

And the point of all this is:
The M2s without any room correction outshine the Gallo 3.5s with room correction by a considerably WIDE margin. The difference is NOT subtle. It is significant. And this is true no matter where I place the M2s in my listening room!!

Given the M2s ability to integrate and play so well in my room no matter where I position them, I am going to go out on a limb and say that i am pretty sure that they will also work very well in your room. But as you so aptly pointed out, you will not know until you try them in your environment.

If you have read the various previews written by reviewers who have experienced the Holograms at the HiFi shows where Clayton was showing them, you probably are aware of the fact that the Holograms' room friendliness is one of the things that was noted. At the Axpona show in Chicago (where Clayton was showing the base model M2, not the Turbo version) one reviewer was particularly impressed with this feature.

Here is the link to that preview:
AXPONA 2014: Spatial has got your skinny | Confessions of a Part-Time Audiophile

While I can't help you with the restocking issue i can tell you this:
Unless you happen to get a pair of Holograms which have been considerably broken in, these speakers, out of the box, will sound ''hot'' ( a hard edgy sound in the highs) and they will need a lot of run-in time to really smooth out. This is probably the reason why Clayton offers a 45 day trial period rather than the usual 30 days.
 
By the way, at the San Francisco show, Clayton coupled the Hologram M1s with an Audion Tube Audio 300B tube amplifier which, I believe, maxes out at 8 watts. According to Clayton it was one of the best amps he has ever heard and the control it had over the bass was amazing and totally unexpected given that it was a low watt tube amp.
So, I guess that, at least in this one case, a tube amp had no problem with the 4ohm impedance.
 
Thx for the very informative reply. I was only able to speak with Charles.( the tech support guy ) Despite the 4 nominal statement, the speakers never drop below 4 ohms according to him. And yes, I heard the report of excellent results achieved with the 300B amps. I think I've put the impedance issue to bed. The restock fee is 15% from what I gather. If one were to audition the 15" driver version at $4000 and it didn't work out, you'd be looking at a $1000+ "no-risk" adventure figuring in shipping both ways. Seems like "no risk" favors the manufacturer, not the buyer at that point. With this all said, one has to make up his or her mind if the risk is worth the reward. Some would go for it without hesitation, others surely will not. Since the 12" version is a better fit for my needs, the above "return" scenario would be a bit less painful. I believe when the time comes, I'll be willing to take the risk based on what I heard at RMAF.
 
I don't know what prompts such high restocking fees. Actually I don't even know what 'restocking' means. What exactly is entailed in the act of 'restocking?' And does it take more work effort and time to restock a DAC which costs $6000 that it does to restock two speakers which cost $4000 and which are considerably larger than any DAC?
Size doesn't seem to be the determining factor... only the price of the item is.

If restocking is essentially the same action for both, then why isn't the charge just a flat fee rather than a percentage?

At the end of the day, we are not being offered a potentially free trial period, we are being charged a rental fee which will be deducted from the purchase price if we decide to buy the product.
 
I don't know what prompts such high restocking fees. Actually I don't even know what 'restocking' means. What exactly is entailed in the act of 'restocking?' And does it take more work effort and time to restock a DAC which costs $6000 that it does to restock two speakers which cost $4000 and which are considerably larger than any DAC?
Size doesn't seem to be the determining factor... only the price of the item is.

If restocking is essentially the same action for both, then why isn't the charge just a flat fee rather than a percentage?

At the end of the day, we are not being offered a potentially free trial period, we are being charged a rental fee which will be deducted from the purchase price if we decide to buy the product.

I agree.
A lot of companies charge restocking fees if you return an item even unopened. I don't get the charging a fee for an unopened item because that would be a easy resell and all they do is hit a couple of keys on the PC and throw it back on the shelf.
I think part of the reason for restock fees in some cases at least is due to storage space or having to hold an item in limited if any inventory space both physical and on the books. I think there is a general fear that once an item is returned, because it legally can't be sold as "new" in the case of an opened item (even if it never was out of the box), that said item will be harder to move (sell).
I think it's a somewhat unwarranted fear in my opinion when it comes to audio gear. There are many who would snap up a piece of open box gear at a reasonable discount for both seller and buyer in a New York minute.
There may be other factors and reasons of course.

Now in the case of specific open offers of "free trial", it doesn't make sense at all. In fact, I think it would benefit the seller if they had perhaps a couple of specific "demo" units they could loan out and then just hold something on collateral (such as a temporary hold charge on a credit card) in case and just charge shipping or something (and disclosing that of course). This type of thing may work with high-end stuff like this, but I would not see places like Best Buy or whatever doing this, it would not make sense for them.
I don't know, just a thought and may not be a very good one at that.
 
I can somewhat see what might prompt a "restock" charge, but it has nothing to do with actual restocking. If the manufacturer sends a speaker out for audition and it's returned within the trail period, I would think that speaker would then have to be sold as a "demo".... at a reduced price of course. Hence the restock fee is just a way to somewhat recoup the disparity between the original "new" price and what is now the "demo" price. Now my little rambling is truly just a guess with no inside information whatsoever. Regardless, "no risk" would only apply if you happily kept the speaker. Time for a glass of wine.
 
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