Best digital you've ever heard (to date)

Mike Lavigne said:
the best PCM (redbook to 192/24) I've heard so far is the Trinity dac in my system fed by the 24 terabyte NAS -> CAPSv4 Pipeline with Lampizator Komputer mods + Teradak and Uptone LPS -> Totaldac USB cable with Regen. the Trinity sit on a Herzan TS-150 active isolation shelf.

astonishing sound from PCM. forget any 'PCM' ness you might imagine. it fits in with my analog vinyl and tape.

the best dsd up to Quad dsd I'd say is a tie between the Merging Technologies NADAC at RMAF and David Robinson's room, and the Lampizator Golden Gate with Elrog ER300b's in my room fed by the same CPU as above (excepting no Regen). the GG sits on Wave Kinetics A10 U8 decoupling footers.

I suspect if I had the NADAC in my room I would 'prefer' the GG/Elrog but they have different presentations so hard to choose short of having them side by side. I did hear the GG in David Robinson's room but it was not optimized for various reasons.

cool thread idea, btw.
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I need you to try Jriver upconversion to DSD256 feeding BHE and also just plain upconversion and playback using HQP to see what you like best. You will be able to compare against full out R2R playback from your master tapes.

The upcoming high-end bespoke Sound Galleries Server (maxxed out clocks and purpose designed/optimized power supplies) will be a treat to try, if its as good as my pals tell me.
 
madfloyd,

IIRC, you had the Lampizator (which model?) and at first there was a technical (tube?) problem. After you got it resolved, what was your main issue with the Lampi, when compared to the Berkeley & MSB?
 
Jim Smith said:
madfloyd,

IIRC, you had the Lampizator (which model?) and at first there was a technical (tube?) problem. After you got it resolved, what was your main issue with the Lampi, when compared to the Berkeley & MSB?
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Hi Jim,

My experience with the Lampi was a bit strange. I had the B7. Due to a tube supply problem, I received it without the tubes I ordered (which I had done some research on) and even though the supplied tubes were vintage (and technically an upgrade over the other tubes) it was a thick and syrupy sound (more of a typical 'tube' sound) - whereas I like fast, nimble and extended.

I eventually got the tubes I wanted and while the treble was nice, the bass was light & fluffy (no weight). I also found it pretty soft - for example, cymbals had a nice full sound, but the transients of a drumstick on a ride cymbal were so muted that it was unsatisfying.

I then learned that using JRiver to convert to DSD was not a great route and started to just test the PCM DAC when a tube died and my trial period ended.

So all in all, while I can't help but have some impressions, I can't profess to have heard the B7 in it's full glory.

Ian
 
You guys are killing me. I'm gunna have to find some way to get my hands on an MSB product.
 
Zero said:
You guys are killing me. I'm gunna have to find some way to get my hands on an MSB product.
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I have the MSB Analog on its way to me (with an Aurender N10) to compare to the Lumin A1. Should be interesting. No Quad USB module though, that's coming later (will use the Regen until then). Mentioned before, but why not again: the MSB Signature V with UMT+ over I2S is amazing. I can't begin to imagine how good the Select DAC sounds.

Edit: I'm after an audition of the TAD DA1000. Heard some great things, including someone who preferred it over the dCS stack...
 
I look forward to your reading your impressions Yoga.

The Lumin is an excellent sounding streamer. As of this moment, it's the only streamer that I could see myself living with. Hopefully the MSB Analog will give it a run for its money - or more.. :D

As for dCS. I dunno. I've tried the Debusy DAC and the Paganini stack. It's good, but I preferred the significantly more affordable AMR gear. Maybe it was a synergy issue (albeit across two wildly different system types).
 
Sean - AMR makes great sounding stuff, but they are soooooo sloooooow to come out with new products that keep up. I heard about their reference DAC 2 years ago. I haven't seen it out yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Zero said:
I look forward to your reading your impressions Yoga.

The Lumin is an excellent sounding streamer. As of this moment, it's the only streamer that I could see myself living with. Hopefully the MSB Analog will give it a run for its money - or more.. :D

As for dCS. I dunno. I've tried the Debusy DAC and the Paganini stack. It's good, but I preferred the significantly more affordable AMR gear. Maybe it was a synergy issue (albeit across two wildly different system types).
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I'm hoping it doesn't ;¬)

The single box A1 is considerably cheaper than an Analog + N10 + interconnects.

From memory, I prefer the Lumin A1 + 600i over the Signature + UMT through an Eddie Current 445 amplifier. The 600i is a killer amp for the Abyss headphones. That may be different over speakers.

Regarding dCS, it was the TOTL stack I'm talking about. Serious money! The TAD DA1000 is £12K here, a lot cheaper.

Mike said:
Sean - AMR makes great sounding stuff, but they are soooooo sloooooow to come out with new products that keep up. I heard about their reference DAC 2 years ago. I haven't seen it out yet.
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I had the AMR 777SE in my sights for some time, but there was so much delay in both supply and upgrading current equipment that owners all over the world were getting very frustrated. Quite a few sold their units for that reason. Not a good show from AMR unfortunately.
 
Mike - Dude, you're absolutely right. I think it's obvious that AMR is and has been a lot more focused on their iFi product line than on their premium high-end line. In a way, I can't blame them. It's where the money is. Still, you're right. AMR has dropped the ball numerous times when it comes to delivering on promised goods. As Yoga more or less said, it ain't a good look.

Yet on the flip side of all this, I think we both know that there aren't too many digital products out there that can mimic the sound of a *GOOD* analog setup. While the aforementioned issues are a legit concern - especially to those who play in the dealer/distributor side of the business, I'm a consumer who cares a lot more about having a kick-ass sounding unit than worrying about how soon I can upgrade it to the next whatever.

As an aside: I believe the AMR 777SE DAC is already available in the US.
 
Yoga said:
I have the MSB Analog on its way to me (with an Aurender N10) to compare to the Lumin A1. Should be interesting. No Quad USB module though, that's coming later (will use the Regen until then). Mentioned before, but why not again: the MSB Signature V with UMT+ over I2S is amazing. I can't begin to imagine how good the Select DAC sounds.
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Hi Yoga!

Congrats on the Analog DAC :) Perhaps your Analog DAC will come with the SPDIF module installed? I'd try that with your Aurender N10, and compare it with the regular USB. I'm going back and forth on both ports, on the MSB SELECT we have here, and also using the Aurender N10.

For the folks used to the lovely Lumin app, and are willing to try an MSB (or any other UPNP-based streamer), let me offer a little tip, that I don't know if it's common knowledge already, but here goes: install BubbleUPNP Server on your NAS/server. That will allow the MSB Renderer (or any UPNP-only streamer really) to act as an OpenHome-compatible unit. That means you'll be able to use the gorgeous Lumin app, or the very nice Linn Kazoo as well. Pure UPNP control points are crude at best, at least on the iOS/iPad platform...
 
My Esoteric K-01X gives me everything I want playing downloads through its DAC and playing CDs/SACDs through its amazing transport. Wonderful musical density and layering, terrific bass and treble extension, a huge soundstage with holographic imaging, powerful dynamics and tremendous detail and nuance that is delivered with amazing refinement and ease.

Since I purchased the K-01X, I no longer have the desire to audition the new latest/greatest DACs, which I'm sure are all amazing in their own right. It's a question of finally getting the sonic performance I was seeking and being fully content with it. I will say that it makes me want the G-01 Master Clock even more because I know it will deliver even greater performance from the K-01X with no downside other than its hefty price tag.

Ken
 
Zero said:
You guys are killing me. I'm gunna have to find some way to get my hands on an MSB product.
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The Analog is a great product & for the money would have to be a great bang for the buck product that MSB released realising that they needed a more generic product for the masses, they didn't realise just how good they made that "generic" dac though, it is really good for what you pay. Once you start to get into the flagship creations of MSB you are paying for that last 10% of all of their knowledge, although I will mention that I knew the Select was coming 3 years ago, "but", decided I needed to ground myself for the reality of a time where digital was supposed to answer all questions of quality, it didn't so I bought a vinyl rig eventually. I will say the MSB line is the most true to sound that I expect out of a well heard system of mine, in so saying, I haven't lived with dcs. I have to admit Berkley has my attention, then again, so does Siltech , Wilson Benesch & Woo Audio so I'm guessing another mortgage will suffice.....
Yoga said:
I have the MSB Analog on its way to me (with an Aurender N10) to compare to the Lumin A1. Should be interesting. No Quad USB module though, that's coming later (will use the Regen until then). Mentioned before, but why not again: the MSB Signature V with UMT+ over I2S is amazing. I can't begin to imagine how good the Select DAC sounds.

Edit: I'm after an audition of the TAD DA1000. Heard some great things, including someone who preferred it over the dCS stack...
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asiufy said:
Hi Yoga!

Congrats on the Analog DAC :) Perhaps your Analog DAC will come with the SPDIF module installed? I'd try that with your Aurender N10, and compare it with the regular USB. I'm going back and forth on both ports, on the MSB SELECT we have here, and also using the Aurender N10.

For the folks used to the lovely Lumin app, and are willing to try an MSB (or any other UPNP-based streamer), let me offer a little tip, that I don't know if it's common knowledge already, but here goes: install BubbleUPNP Server on your NAS/server. That will allow the MSB Renderer (or any UPNP-only streamer really) to act as an OpenHome-compatible unit. That means you'll be able to use the gorgeous Lumin app, or the very nice Linn Kazoo as well. Pure UPNP control points are crude at best, at least on the iOS/iPad platform...
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Hey buddy! It's only a loan for the time being - no purchase yet :¬)

It only has the basic USB module installed, although I've heard from another Analog owner that the Regen does wonders with it.

I wanted the Network Renderer for that reason - I2S too - but in the UK it's not available. In fact one of the dealers here said it's not even completed and released yet. Then I see people in the US owning and talking about its performance. Very confusing!
 
bzr said:
The Analog is a great product & for the money would have to be a great bang for the buck product that MSB released realising that they needed a more generic product for the masses, they didn't realise just how good they made that "generic" dac though, it is really good for what you pay. Once you start to get into the flagship creations of MSB you are paying for that last 10% of all of their knowledge, although I will mention that I knew the Select was coming 3 years ago, "but", decided I needed to ground myself for the reality of a time where digital was supposed to answer all questions of quality, it didn't so I bought a vinyl rig eventually. I will say the MSB line is the most true to sound that I expect out of a well heard system of mine, in so saying, I haven't lived with dcs. I have to admit Berkley has my attention, then again, so does Siltech , Wilson Benesch & Woo Audio so I'm guessing another mortgage will suffice.....
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Yes indeed, it's those last few percentages that we raid our wallets for :¬)

Have you heard the Lumin A1/S1 by any chance? It sounded more analogue than the Analog to my ears, although a direct comparison soon will be far more accurate (going from memory).
 
CPP said:
Well started out with a 2012 Mac mini running Audirvana > Mytek DSD192 > W4S STP or a Quicksilver tube LS pre. Got tired of the Mytex sound, changed over to a TEAC UD501, then heard a Chord Hugo, went with that now I just say stream it with my Lumin. No PC issues, drivers etc. etc.. Just music that sounds really nice.
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What was the "Mytek sound" that you grew tired of? Are you talking about PCM, DSD, or both that you grew tired of from the Mytek? I can tell you that I never play PCM through the Mytek which says something about how I feel. At it's price point, I do think the Mytek Stereo 192 does a great job with DSD. The Lampi Level 4 DAC that I reviewed for PFO some time back sounded better, but not enough to make me want to dig into my wallet. Especially when I'm an analog first-digital second kind of guy.
 
Wow, three pages and no pissing contest. Amazing. No Monday Morning quarterback going on a rant that DAC A can't be as good as DAC B, because the designer screwed up when he put the USB port next to the AES/EBU port. No one saying DAC B can't be as good as DAC A because it doesn't measure as well.

Respecting others opinions. Such a novel idea. Frankly, my take away from this thread is this: I love my Lumin and so happy to read all the positive comments from others who love theirs too. Next, I need to audition the MSB products and finally, I need to keep an eye on AMR (they may have woken up from their multi-year hibernation).

Oh, and one more....the Cary digital products are real sleepers.
 
A mini-consensus that I'm starting to see with regards to DACs is that if you want the 'best' sound from either PCM or DSD, you need to buy a dedicated PCM or DSD DAC and one of each if you listen to both formats. When you think about the technology differences between the formats, it makes sense to dedicate a DAC to one or the other so the DAC isn't compromised because it's doing both.

For me, it gets to be a real estate issue with digital. I know I need a new and bigger rack (I need the stretch model), but having a bunch of RF producing gear on the same rack as my analog gear doesn't excite me. I know from experience that phono stages don't like being next to DACs and you won't like it either unless you want noise and hum injected into your phono stage. I actually have my laptop server, DAC, and hard drives on the floor of my room on wooden platforms well away from my analog gear for just that reason.

Back to the separate DAC issue.. I just reviewed a PCM setup from Mojo Audio and you can read the review here: http://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/mojo-audio-glimpse-pcm-promised-land/
This is the first time that I have ever heard PCM sound this good in my home. It was a revelation in many ways because it actually made PCM listenable for me. I know that many people fell in love with PCM in the 1980s and the love has only grown stronger over the years, but I wasn't in that crowd. Even up until very recently, people were telling me that I just hadn't heard what PCM is capable of and I was beginning to think the price of admission to that show started somewhere in the 5 digit range. The Mojo gear has proven to me that you can hear a slice of it in the 4 digit range.

What it boils down to with digital for me is that when I do listen to digital, it's normally 100% DSD because that is my format of choice and it's what my Mytek sounds best at reproducing. I'm not interested in streaming an all you can stand digital buffet of music into my room. That might be OK for a system that was upstairs in my house and I wanted background noise while I was doing something else, but not in my dedicated stereo room.
 
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