BlueFox
New member
Okay.
Berkley Alpha Reference DAC (mini) Review
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
Okay.
After your first fire, you may be a bit more concerned. We had DJ equipment burst into flames, and caused substantial damage to our night club. Also had a amplifer catch on fire. It can happen. So this scenario is always in the back of my mind.
The Sandman
Member
"Mostly" the same? So you don't hear any improvement with warm-up at all, or you find that it does improve but doesn't take the 12 hours Berkeley recommends? If it's the latter, how long does it take to full warm-up in your estimation?
I actually don't believe it made a difference. At first I thought maybe there was a microscopic bit of improvement . But after 3 hours of listening to my favorites, I honestly do not think it made a difference. I will usually ignore an impression of improvement that is short lived, as I believe we sometimes anticipate better sound quality when making changes. I am not trying to convince anyone my impressions are correct. I am just sharing what I have experienced in my humble opinion. Folks ask for comparisons, and I offer what I can.....through my imperfect filter (me and my ears).
I have on several occasions swapped in a piece of crap gear in a top notch system..........and everyone proclaimed OMG, THAT'S AWEFUL. The only problem was, I changed nothing at all. It was perceived that the crap gear would ruin the sound......and so it did. That's why I like A/B comparisons. We all listen to "A" compared to "B", and make an absolute statement which is best. So we all do A/B comparisons continually. We make our audio buying decisions via A/B comparisons. But when we make the test blind (not disclose what we are listening to), the whole process is flawed ?? I believe it embarrasses way too many people, when they are subjected to these scenarios. Try it sometime. Give folks all the time they want to listen to each piece of gear. It can really open up your eyes, if you give it a fair shot.
The Sandman
Member
Interesting! I can't argue with you - since mine is always on I don't hear the warm-up. I was going by the manufacturer's recommendation on that. I did notice the unit sounded wonky when I first added it to my system but it improved rapidly over a couple of hours. I'm assuming that was break-in and not warm-up.
I definitely experienced an improvement in SQ over a three week break-in period. I've had the Berkeley in (3) totally different systems in the last 6 weeks, so I've heard all sorts of changes. I have been running it direct (no preamp) since day one, so there could be a lot more quality to be realized w/ a preamp. But I am trying the direct route first. Besides, I have no dedicated preamp for the Pass XS-150's at this time In a couple of days I may swing the D'Ag preamp inline with the Berkeley/Pass amps, and see what effect it has. I hope it doesn't make a big difference though, otherwise I will be in the market for th XS preamp (ouch !!).
I have to quit going to Mike's house, which causes more audio purchases. Hey....that's my New Years resolution !! Stay away from Mike's house, and avoid bankruptcy, lol.
Julot
New member
For some reason (and no one seems to quite know why from my survey), warming up with digital is not a matter of hours, but days. On Linn streamers it is known that at least 48h are needed before they sound their best, and that is staying constantly plugged. Even changing the plug or the power chord sets you back. I heard the same about Lumin.
Calling it "warming up" or "breaking in" may be misleading, as this is clearly not related to thermal equilibrium (it is perfectly stable in a few hours), even less to mechanical effects. Cables are part of the equation, as is the whole system. When I compared my server to my CD player, physically unplugging the CD player (that was on the same strip) was essential to the server standing a chance.
On my Antipodes server, the first couple of hours is brilliant, then it gets kind of tamed, almost boring for a couple of days before sounding awesome. As I said just plugging and unplugging essentially restarts a cycle. Some say it shouldn't be so, and some say it can't be so, but in my experience it is unavoidable in the current state of gear. This is why I don't take a computer audio source with me when touring, unless I know the host can keep the machine strictly plugged for a whole week (and then that makes for very long tours, obviously...).
It's bad for DACs, but worse for digital transports. Indeed there is a reason why most high end one don't even a power switch (or it doesn't actually shut down the power supply).
From my experience with computer audio, it can be great but a good turntable is easier, more reliable and more affordable in terms of getting great music, and a CD player is in-between.
Calling it "warming up" or "breaking in" may be misleading, as this is clearly not related to thermal equilibrium (it is perfectly stable in a few hours), even less to mechanical effects. Cables are part of the equation, as is the whole system. When I compared my server to my CD player, physically unplugging the CD player (that was on the same strip) was essential to the server standing a chance.
On my Antipodes server, the first couple of hours is brilliant, then it gets kind of tamed, almost boring for a couple of days before sounding awesome. As I said just plugging and unplugging essentially restarts a cycle. Some say it shouldn't be so, and some say it can't be so, but in my experience it is unavoidable in the current state of gear. This is why I don't take a computer audio source with me when touring, unless I know the host can keep the machine strictly plugged for a whole week (and then that makes for very long tours, obviously...).
It's bad for DACs, but worse for digital transports. Indeed there is a reason why most high end one don't even a power switch (or it doesn't actually shut down the power supply).
From my experience with computer audio, it can be great but a good turntable is easier, more reliable and more affordable in terms of getting great music, and a CD player is in-between.
I have noticed this same exact effect. A piece of gear will sound awesome for a couple of hours, and then work its way to average. I always attributed this to my ears adjusting to the sound. But I am beginning to think there is more to this effect. I also notice a change in the sound of power cords being unplugged, after a long periods inline.
But I am going to leave my digital sources on for several days, and hope for an improvement. Thanks for the replies !!
Audioseduction
Active member
Then you need to turn off your refrigerator, hot water heater, smoke detectors, unplug your oven, microwave and many more electrical/electronic equipment. May be best to just turn off all your main breakers.
To be perfectly forthcoming, this comparison was totally flawed (IMHO) in every way. We did not compare the Diresct Stream dac to the Lumin dac. We compared the Lumin to an Apple Mini server / Direct Stream dac / digital cabling (compared to no digital cabling for the Lumin) / two different ac cables / and different interconnects. We should have connected the Direct Stream to Lumin's digital output, for a more faithful A/B comparison. But I believe we left it that way for quick comparison. So nothing could be further from a direct comparison than this was.
I do not say this to create favor for either piece of gear. But rather, I bring attention to the problems I think any new piece may face.....when being demo'ed. We have our perfectly balanced systems that we all work hard (months or years) to perfect, via numerous try-outs of amps, preamps, ac cables, IC's, speakers, room treatments, etc. Then we bring in a new piece of gear to try and de-throne our reference piece. What kind of fair comparison can the new piece of gear get, without going through the same careful process ?? It's doomed from the start, in many cases.
That's why I go through at least a couple of months of trial and error, trying every combination of cabling/gear combos I can come with. Even then, I cannot necessarily declare a winner. I can proclaim that I have found a synergy between certain pieces of gear that work well together. Now if a piece of gear craps on everything it is paired with, I will then label it an unworthy contender.
So I do not necessarily find auditions/demo's/shootouts very helpful to determine what might work well in someone else's system. It must be done in each person's own system, with an immense amount of experimenting. Of course, these are my own mindless/crazy methods to find audio satisfaction. Just thoughts for mull over, if you wish.
Then you need to turn off your refrigerator, hot water heater, smoke detectors, unplug your oven, microwave and many more electrical/electronic equipment. May be best to just turn off all your main breakers.
I knew that was coming....lol. But I do unplug everything that doesn't have to be left on. And I have a boat load of smoke of smoke detectors in place. But my "bad back hurting" therapy is helping me over this phobia. I may soon be cured !!
- Thread Author
- #92
I have a proper bnc cable on order. Bring it back for round two.
I'm surprised you've found the DirectStream firmware upgrade a step backwards with Redbook. I wonder what is going on there? Maybe the Berkley's superb Redbook has spoiled you?
I have a proper bnc cable on order. Bring it back for round two.
I'm surprised you've found the DirectStream firmware upgrade a step backwards with Redbook. I wonder what is going on there? Maybe the Berkley's superb Redbook has spoiled you?
I didn't have the Berkeley when PS Audio did their software upgrade. I miss those nice crisp highs it had. But the Berkeley is definitely delivering. I had about a 3 hour listening session last night, and there is no denying how good DSD can be. WOW. Even with J River doing the conversion on the fly, it's a major step up in SQ on many DSD recordings. It could be that they take much more care in recording some of these, I don't know ?? But I do not want to be without DSD right now.
I am trying to get the speaker placement right on the MBL's. The soundstage is not as good as I had it before, and it is causing a lot of distraction. So the Berkeley is not getting my full attention at this point. I also haven't found a good match on the BNC/BNC cable yet either. I will go to the BADA USB box next, but one thing at a time.
What's really bothering me is how well the Spatial's are sounding. That system was thrown together in about 30 minutes.....odd ball cables....etc. And it's kicking my better system's butt BIGTIME. The Direct Stream is in that system. Go figure.
The BNC cable will allow you to easily A/B the two. I'm looking forward to round two. The Lumin will stream through its DAC and its digital outputs simultaneously. I did this with my AMR DP-777, Lumin S1 into #2, the AMT into #3. I could just switch back and forth between the preamp's inputs seamlessly.
My only question was if the AMR was better fed by the Mac Mini via USB, or the Lumin via BNC.
My only question was if the AMR was better fed by the Mac Mini via USB, or the Lumin via BNC.
I have a proper bnc cable on order. Bring it back for round two.
I'm surprised you've found the DirectStream firmware upgrade a step backwards with Redbook. I wonder what is going on there? Maybe the Berkley's superb Redbook has spoiled you?
jdl,
my buddy AL made Exactly the same observation. Indeed, he kept both firmwares and rolls them for different formats and genres. It takes 2 minutes to roll via usb stick. Quite cool and PSA is quite silly not to support with a memory buffer and offering other firmware that they have
By the way Mike (Ritmo), I'm using the BDP-2/Direct Stream combo and it's dynamite !! Just thought you might appreciate that info since you own one. The Bryston continues to impress me. Now I need to get off my but and figure out the BDP-2/Manic Moose software/DSD output situation. I need to get in touch with James to get a copy of that on a USB stick. I want to get DSD going on the Bryston !!
Great to know! The BDP-2 is such a great sounding server. Are you using the digital balanced into the BADA? If so, what brand cable?
Funny enough, I have yet to do the Manic Moose (MM) upgrade as well. With MM the BDP-2 will play DSD via USB. Maybe I need to do the same and get the stick from James and Bryston.
Main system as currently configured: MBL 101E's / Pass XS-150 Monos / Brekeley Reference DAC / Bartis Server / PS Audio P-10's / (2) REL 528se Subs / Stealth Audio and Dave's Cables
Secondary System: Spatial Master Speakers / D'Agostino Mono's and preamp / Direct Stream DAC / Bryston BPP-2 / PS Audio P-10 / Nordost and Dave's cables