Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference

Winson...I have a self built CAPs ready to roll. I've even got lead sheeting in it. I can lay down W2012 R2 CORE, no problem. It has a SoTm USB. Are you saying that JRiver can be installed on a core & does not need the Windows GUI & can run as a service?

I'm not across JRiver yet & typically thought that it needed a full blown Windows OS to run. Obviously I am mistaken. If it can run on a core only, that is awesome & I am keen to try this out.
 
Hi Steve,

Its all discussed here: Who's used the Audiophile Optimizer for Windows 2012 Server or Windows 8?

Ted_B, ALRainbow and K6Davis seem to be the most advanced power users. Audiophil is a Swiss Guy from Zurich who developed the AO software . His website is www.highend-audiopc.com

There he has instructions (pdf file) on how to proceed and the AO software is like $150 or so. I think you have to ensure that your processor is fast enough and that the motherboard is optimised for this, but all can be tested with th demo software.
 
wisnon said:
I have heard JRiver decimation..I have it. NOWHERE near native DSD playback on a Lampi.That is not even debatable for people who hear it...and I have even had this debate with Thorsten. Once you hear REAL DSD, then no amount of marketing spin will sway you.

And I can tell you that a filter box in a Faraday cage in now way compromises PCM playback, especially as it would be bypassed when PCM is playing, so unpowered.

That said, the RS should be a great PCM Dac and I am not putting it down in terms of SQ. I reserve judgement.
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I haven't heard the Lampi or JRiver in my system so I can't comment on either. With that said, I don't doubt your listening experiences with them. I did a bit more reading on the Lampi, however, and this caught my attention (the ALL CAPS are their's, the bolding is mine):

"THE LAMPIZATOR DSD DAC HAS USB PORT BUILT IN, SOLID STATE DIGITAL FILTER, PASSIVE DISCRETE ANALOG FILTER AND ACTIVE DISCRETE TUBE FILTER. IT DOES NOT MANIPULATE THE DATA IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM, IT DOES NOT CONVERT IT, UPSAMPLE, RECLOCK OR DOWNSAMPLE. IT DOES NOT GO THROUGH PCM PROCESS EITHER. IT IS PUREST NATIVE DSD WE KNOW OF. WE PRACTICALLY ONLY GENTLY REMOVE THE CARRIER FREQUENCY FROM THE RAW DATA AS IT COMES FROM HARD DRIVE. NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS."

I don't know if this is unique to Lampizator or not, but other DSD DACs do in fact either convert (Benchmark, Mytek), process (Chord, CH Precision, TechDAS, Wyred4Sound), or upsample (EMM, Meitner) DSD. In addition, Schiit also believes decoding both PCM and DSD in the same DAC would compromise performance, just as Berkeley does. In fact, this is what Schiit says about its DSD-only DAC:

"Because Loki is a DSD-dedicated design, with no PCM decoding, we were able to optimize the output stage and filtering to the unique requirements of DSD. The result is cleaner output, from a stage that isn’t compromised to try to accommodate both DSD and other digital sources."

Whether Schiit and Berkeley are correct in saying such or are just saying it for marketing purposes is beyond my expertise to reasonably scrutinize. I just know that less than 0.1% of the music I want to buy is available as DSD download (I wish it wasn't so). If I was to buy a Playstation 1 to rip SACDs, that number 'might' climb closer to 1%, but I seriously doubt it would be more than that. With that in mind, I'm not concerned about my DAC handling DSD. When I do upgrade my current DAC, I might buy one with DSD capability but that won't be a deciding factor for me.
 
asindc said:
I respectfully disagree. I think they just decided to focus on PCM sound quality without compromise. They believe having the DSD processing inside the DAC would unnecessarily degrade the signal and that software like JRiver does just as good a job of it anyway. I'll leave the technical debate to the experts, but given Berkeley's track record, they have earned the benefit of my doubt.
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My hypothesis on this is that when they started the design DSD was a very tiny blip in the market. As the design became solid and was frozen, all of a sudden DSD started to take off. Now they have a dilemma, do they start over and add DSD, with a least a year or two delay, or come up with a work around. I suspect that in order to finally get to market they chose the work around.

I agree Berkeley has an excellent track record with PCM, and I wish I could buy this DAC since I do not have any DSD files. I also suspect we will see a new model in a year or so with DSD built in.
 
Asindc,

The following Dacs treat DSD in native or near native form: Lampi, Meitner, EMM (upsamples all to DSD2x, still 1 bit), Ifi iDSD (BB1793 with DSD bypass pathway implemented), and a few others like the DSD-s from Alex. Some other use Sabre chip and other implementations that run in multi-bit SDM like the directStream, etc.

Schitt, Ayre, Benchmark, BA and even iFI/AMR are openly opposed to DSD on SQ principles. I strongly disagree, after hearing DSD done right.
I think there is some resistance and marketing positioning going on. I have tons of DSD myself, as I do have my own PS3 and so download when stuff goes on sale, but that is irrelevant! I want the choice and DSD is the ONLY way at present to get the path in one format from recording to playback. 99.99% of all ADCs are Delta sigma, so pure PCM pathways are stillborn. Mani in the UK has a vintage Pacific Microsonics 2 ADC (made by the guys from BA when they were PM) and he will be doing needle drops to playback via his Phasure NOS1A Dac....Pure PCM pathway and let us know. BTW, he thinks thet Phasure has the BA RS beat by 3 years and costs $10K less!

BTW, Ifi is a non-beleiver and still gave DSD their best shot and its very very good. Schitt DSD does not seem to be in the same league.

I have heard the Lampi B7 for 6 hours in NYC with quailty Woo/Sennhesier amps and quality HPs like the HE6, Stax Electro-Statics and the HD800. No compromise on PCM or DSD to my ears. Lampi is 2 Dacs in one box... and yes, Lukasz did test PCM only, DSD only and DSD/PCM combined Dacs for ANY dimunition in SQ. I am moving from a setup with a Lampi box just for PCM and another just for DSD to a combined setup. i would not do this if I sensed any SQ compromise.
 
BlueFox said:
My hypothesis on this is that when they started the design DSD was a very tiny blip in the market. As the design became solid and was frozen, all of a sudden DSD started to take off. Now they have a dilemma, do they start over and add DSD, with a least a year or two delay, or come up with a work around. I suspect that in order to finally get to market they chose the work around.

I agree Berkeley has an excellent track record with PCM, and I wish I could buy this DAC since I do not have any DSD files. I also suspect we will see a new model in a year or so with DSD built in.
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Fair enuff. I also think they are "camps" too. Andreas Koch/Meitner vs the BA crew....gunfight at OK Corral! LoL

None will give an inch, but we know they are all top gunfighters!
 
wisnon said:
Asindc,

The following Dacs treat DSD in native or near native form: Lampi, Meitner, EMM (upsamples all to DSD2x, still 1 bit), Ifi iDSD (BB1793 with DSD bypass pathway implemented), and a few others like the DSD-s from Alex. Some other use Sabre chip and other implementations that run in multi-bit SDM like the directStream, etc.

Schitt, Ayre, Benchmark, BA and even iFI/AMR are openly opposed to DSD on SQ principles. I strongly disagree, after hearing DSD done right.
I think there is some resistance and marketing positioning going on. I have tons of DSD myself, as I do have my own PS3 and so download when stuff goes on sale, but that is irrelevant! I want the choice and DSD is the ONLY way at present to get the path in one format from recording to playback. 99.99% of all ADCs are Delta sigma, so pure PCM pathways are stillborn. Mani in the UK has a vintage Pacific Microsonics 2 ADC (made by the guys from BA when they were PM) and he will be doing needle drops to playback via his Phasure NOS1A Dac....Pure PCM pathway and let us know. BTW, he thinks thet Phasure has the BA RS beat by 3 years and costs $10K less!

BTW, Ifi is a non-beleiver and still gave DSD their best shot and its very very good. Schitt DSD does not seem to be in the same league.

I have heard the Lampi B7 for 6 hours in NYC with quailty Woo/Sennhesier amps and quality HPs like the HE6, Stax Electro-Statics and the HD800. No compromise on PCM or DSD to my ears. Lampi is 2 Dacs in one box... and yes, Lukasz did test PCM only, DSD only and DSD/PCM combined Dacs for ANY dimunition in SQ. I am moving from a setup with a Lampi box just for PCM and another just for DSD to a combined setup. i would not do this if I sensed any SQ compromise.
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DSD vs. PCM does not interest me, as I tend to be agnostic with all things audio (analog vs. digital, Redbook vs. SACD vs. HDCD, etc.). The interest here for me is whether or not the BADA DAC RS is a viable solution despite the fact that it does not do DSD. I'd be more interested in DSD if it was more widely available. Since it is not, however, it won't factor into my decision about what DAC to get next. I say this with the understanding that I might generally find it to be superior to PCM if not for the lack of titles. By the way, I have been following the thread at computeraudiophile in reaction to Chris' review and I read Mani's comments. Mani didn't say whether or not he has heard the BADA DAC RS, so I'll leave it there.
 
BlueFox said:
My hypothesis on this is that when they started the design DSD was a very tiny blip in the market. As the design became solid and was frozen, all of a sudden DSD started to take off. Now they have a dilemma, do they start over and add DSD, with a least a year or two delay, or come up with a work around. I suspect that in order to finally get to market they chose the work around.

I agree Berkeley has an excellent track record with PCM, and I wish I could buy this DAC since I do not have any DSD files. I also suspect we will see a new model in a year or so with DSD built in.
Click to expand...

It would not surprise me either if they introduced a DSD-capable DAC at some point. How it would be implemented is the question.
 
asindc said:
DSD vs. PCM does not interest me, as I tend to be agnostic with all things audio (analog vs. digital, Redbook vs. SACD vs. HDCD, etc.). The interest here for me is whether or not the BADA DAC RS is a viable solution despite the fact that it does not do DSD. I'd be more interested in DSD if it was more widely available. Since it is not, however, it won't factor into my decision about what DAC to get next. I say this with the understanding that I might generally find it to be superior to PCM if not for the lack of titles. By the way, I have been following the thread at computeraudiophile in reaction to Chris' review and I read Mani's comments. Mani didn't say whether or not he has heard the BADA DAC RS, so I'll leave it there.
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Dont get me wrong, I LOVE DSD but also well recorded PCM as well, so we are not far apart.

I dont think Mani has heard the BA RS as its very new. His point is that the characteristics described (making RBCD sound thele Hirez) is what ALL The Phasurites claim, ie GLORY, Anthony, Mani, Alain, etc. If this is indeed the case, then Mani is right, the BA got beat by 3 years!!!!
I unlike you have enuff DSD to make it a big factor in MY decision. We all must suit ourselves.
 
Mike said:
Since buying a Lumin, I've stopped reading about DAC's....they are inferior in every way to a network streamer IMO. I've owned 20 DAC's like the DAC2X, MA-1 and demoed many more. It just seems that every month there is a new DAC, then, people try it and become disappointed. Why? Because there is no constant!! Everyone has different USB cables, different computers, different software, different everything. All of these front end items negatively affect the sound. Computers do no belong in high end audio systems. Period. Yes, and I've even owned modified MAC's, CAPS 3.0, etc. Companies like Lumin, Linn, Bryston, etc. are on the right track IMO.

NOW, the exception to this for me would be to use the Lumin as the player/controller and run BNC out into a separate TUBE DAC to experiment. But buying a DAC, USB cable, windows or Mac computer, JRiver, no thanks.

As for DSD files, I'm the wrong guy to be asking that question in hopes of a low number. The number is north of 10,000 (from more than 1000 SACD's plus downloads). I've been promoting DSD for years.

As I said, I would love to hear the Berkely DAC and it's accompanying USB gizmo combo in my system and be convinced. And if Jerry is getting one (he is the undeniable king of DACS), then I may get a chance since he is local to me. And if it beats the Lumin S1, I will be happy to say so. I'm not married to anything except my wife.
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Mike,

Your Lumin is just a computer and a DAC in a very nice box with a linear psu. Don't know about the Linn, but the Bryston BDP-2 is also a computer in a nice box with a linear psu(just reviewed here: Bryston BDA-2 and BDP-2 | AudioStream).
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Didn't know you had so many DSD files.

How about a top ten list for those of us that would like to explore DSD.
 

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Mike's streamer is a purpose built computer, so that is the starting advantage.

Regarding a top 10 list, Matej from monoandstereo.com has been promising this since the start of Summer. Try pushing him to do it, why dont ya? He must be ignoring me by now after my multiple requests. LoL

If you are new to DSD, try the Opus 3 samplers.

For me its complicated, as I have DSD128 needledrops and I love all things DSD128.

Here are a couple of other reccs. Elvis 57 DSD64.HajimeMizoguchi 13, Joe Holland Quartet- HDTT Vol 2, Luther Vandross albums, etc.
 
I am currently beta testing out Bob W.'s (HDTT) first DSD256 files on my E28. Should have a listen by this weekend. One thing he can do is DSD from tapes, so no problems with editing.

Wisnon, I see you are doing needledrops with DSD128. How do you edit scratches and clicks out? Do you have a pro set up?

I started my big ripping project five years ago, before DSD, so all my rips are 192/24PCM and I edit using my Pyramix software and Izotope RX2 Advanced to do declicking.

Larry
 
I think so too. Windows 2012 server also is "lighter" than commercial/consumer versions.

Astertoy, I dont do the needledrops, i got a few from a friend. Not sure what his technique is.
 
BlueFox said:
I suspect it isn't based on Windows or Mac, but probably Linux. Linux appears to be better at optimizing for a specific task.
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I'm sure your right, but it's still just a computer in a very nice box. The Bryston BDP-2 is also Linux based just like the Auraliti file players.

BTW, I just talked to someone who was involved in the Alpha REF's development, there's no Native DSD playback in BA's future.
 
wisnon said:
Hi Steve,

Its all discussed here: Who's used the Audiophile Optimizer for Windows 2012 Server or Windows 8?

Ted_B, ALRainbow and K6Davis seem to be the most advanced power users. Audiophil is a Swiss Guy from Zurich who developed the AO software . His website is www.highend-audiopc.com

There he has instructions (pdf file) on how to proceed and the AO software is like $150 or so. I think you have to ensure that your processor is fast enough and that the motherboard is optimised for this, but all can be tested with th demo software.
Click to expand...

Winson...Thanks. My box has an i7 3770T (IvyBridge) & Gigabyte Sniper m3 Z77 Board. I went with this config b/c of the board's build quality & I can easily adjust the voltages even with the low TDP CPU. So there is room to underclock & overclock a little. Also, the design allows you to disable pretty much everything on board that is not required.
 
Steve said:
Winson...Thanks. My box has an i7 3770T (IvyBridge) & Gigabyte Sniper m3 Z77 Board. I went with this config b/c of the board's build quality & I can easily adjust the voltages even with the low TDP CPU. So there is room to underclock & overclock a little. Also, the design allows you to disable pretty much everything on board that is not required.
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Cool, I trust you found the setup guide useful: http://www.highend-audiopc.com/PDF/audiophile_optimizer_setup_guide.pdf
 
wisnon said:
Cool, I trust you found the setup guide useful: http://www.highend-audiopc.com/PDF/audiophile_optimizer_setup_guide.pdf
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Excellent! Much of my own planning has been reconfirmed in the document & more. Very helpful.

I was planning on installing just a single Samsung 1TB SSD, but now I will install another SSD dedicated for OS based on the advice.

BTW, I have been using SOtM SATA filters in my cable satellite STB for quite some time. In addition, to lead lining its internal switch mode PSU & covering ICs with 1mm EM adhesive shielding, it makes a huge performance difference!!!! This is for cable television. So you could imagine what these sorts of little tweaks would do for a CAPs build. I'm in the camp that all digital boxes are just purposed computers. Building a silent Wintel box is no different as long as you can wind it down to essentials.
 
Steve, you should start a thread for this topic here. I think many will be interested.
TedB says he will write an article on digital transport options in a week or so.
 
OK Winson, will do. I will post my work to date which has essentially been some assembly with a little preliminary concept testing to ensure I was on track with hardware choice. Given time constraints, my attention to this project has been lacking. Nevertheless, there has been substantial progress in the CAPs community over the past 12 months since I started building a Zuma inspired machine. Needless to say, many garage grown products emerging like Paul Pang, HDPlex linear PSUs & Emile's "-E-" low grunt Silenzio.
 
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