Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference

A little fuel for the fire.....

From Soulution's web site regarding their new $35,000 DAC:


Audio data is buffered then upsampled to 24Bit/384kHz. We believe precision of inter*polation is more impor*tant than high clock rates. Our players and D/A converters use an algorithm from the highly regarded Anagram Technologies followed by Burr Brown D/A converters in a digital symmetric configuration. As we consider the PCM conversion technology as superior, the DSD signals get converted before its final D/A conversion.
 
I was reading the Berekely review in TAS, and they said they can only build two a day, and it takes a trained engineer, using $100k worth of test equipment and $100k worth of audio gear, to do the final alignment, whatever that consists of.
 
BlueFox said:
I was reading the Berekely review in TAS, and they said they can only build two a day, and it takes a trained engineer, using $100k worth of test equipment and $100k worth of audio gear, to do the final alignment, whatever that consists of.
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I was told the same information.
The final alignment is done on Magico Q3s.
 
mauidan said:
Mike,

Your Lumin is just a computer and a DAC in a very nice box with a linear psu. Don't know about the Linn, but the Bryston BDP-2 is also a computer in a nice box with a linear psu(just reviewed here: Bryston BDA-2 and BDP-2 | AudioStream).
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That's what I was thinking (all be it a very good computer and a very good dac in a very nice box).

This may not be the right place to ask this but a lot of you have a lot of insight.

Regarding the best digital to analog architecture, I am trying to figure this stuff out. As I understand it you gotta go from raw digital data to analog in the way that sounds the best (i.e., with as little added noise from required components, the lowest digital artifacts, time distortions etc.) To do this you need:

1) Storage to hold the raw digital data: a Hard Drive (loud) or Solid State (quiet).

2) A motherboard with a clock and a chipset to decode the raw digital data.

3) A DAC with it's own clock to take the decoded digital data from the chipset in the motherboard and make analog out of it.

So it sounds like keeping the raw storage separate from everything else and thereby isolating the hard drive noise through the an ethernet connection is a great start.

Next making a purpose built motherboard that runs the simplest, quietest software with a quiet, linear power supply is a good next step.

Then the question is whether you keep the DAC in that same box with the motherboard or you make it a separate unit. The benefits of it being in the same box is that you can easily synchronize the DAC clock with the motherboard decoding clock without having to go through an asynchronous usb which can sound less than optimum.

The benefit of putting the DAC in a separate box is that you avoid any noise from the motherboard and chip set, you can sell it and upgrade as DAC technology evolves and you have access to the higher end of the DAC market which all seem to be stand alone (msb, dcs, trinity etc.). You can use balanced interconnect for the best sound and you can still synchronize the clocks with a bnc or a buffer at the dac can be used for re-clocking.

So if I have something really wrong please comment but if this captures the essence of whats happening is there an inherently preferable approach that people prefer and why?
 
mauidan said:
Mike,

Your Lumin is just a computer and a DAC in a very nice box with a linear psu. Don't know about the Linn, but the Bryston BDP-2 is also a computer in a nice box with a linear psu(just reviewed here: Bryston BDA-2 and BDP-2 | AudioStream).
attachment.php


Didn't know you had so many DSD files.

How about a top ten list for those of us that would like to explore DSD.
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That's overly simplistic. My Lumin isn't running Windows or Mac OSX or any additional non-audio related functions. It may have some similar parts, but you are forgetting the most important difference. You still have to transfer your music via a USB cable - highly inferior to packs of data via CAT6.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Mike said:
That's overly simplistic. My Lumin isn't running Windows or Mac OSX or any additional non-audio related functions. It may have some similar parts, but you are forgetting the most important difference. You still have to transfer your music via a USB cable - highly inferior to packs of data via CAT6.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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It doesn't make any difference what OS it's running, you still have a computer in your S1.

Your S1's computer isn't transferring data to the DAC via CAT6.
 
mauidan said:
It does make any difference what OS it's running, you still have a computer in your S1.

Your S1's computer isn't transferring data to the DAC via CAT6.
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Again, overly simplistic. The data is coming from the NAS via Ethernet (cat6).

Have you even heard a Lumin S1?

I've had 20 DACS, Mac's, windows, CAPS 3.0, red wine PSU, WW platinum USB cables, you name it. I speak from experience.

If you're happy with a DAC and Mac setup, great. But sonically, you're missing the mark.
 
Mike said:
Again, overly simplistic. The data is coming from the NAS via Ethernet (cat6).

Have you even heard a Lumin S1?

I've had 20 DACS, Mac's, windows, CAPS 3.0, red wine PSU, WW platinum USB cables, you name it. I speak from experience.

If you're happy with a DAC and Mac setup, great. But sonically, you're missing the mark.
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Mike,

I'm sure the S1(haven't heard it) is a wonderful product, but it still has a computer inside it and it's not transfering data to the DAC via CAT6.

The "mark" is decoding the digital files, and that's all about the DAC and flavor of it's analog output stage.

I'm very happy with the performance of the CAT6 signal going into my Auraliti PK 90 w/linear psu and it's USB output into my Aesthetix Pandora Signature DAC.

Instead of spending $15K, for a S1, I ordered a Devialet 200.
 
I guess I am missing something here. Everything is a computer now. The issue is how well does the computer do its job. For example, the Bryston BDP-1/2 is an optimized Linux computer, with digital and analog power supplies, upgraded sound card, with no fans and spinning hard drives, and is designed to do one thing; take a file from an external drive and send it to an external DAC. You can't write an email, surf the net, play porno videos, or do anything else with it. You can just play digital music files.

Aside from doing that one task really well, it also looks great in the rack with the other audio gear.


Edit:

However, I wonder why the file reading from the USB drive couldn't be added at the DAC? That would eliminate a lot of electronics, and, hopefully, improve the sound.
 
asindc said:
I respectfully disagree. I think they just decided to focus on PCM sound quality without compromise. They believe having the DSD processing inside the DAC would unnecessarily degrade the signal and that software like JRiver does just as good a job of it anyway. I'll leave the technical debate to the experts, but given Berkeley's track record, they have earned the benefit of my doubt.
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ASindc,

This is the quality DSD I listen to, so I can only laugh at the DSD-phobes:

LampizatOr DSD DAC: First Listen (Updated & Revisited) | Confessions of a Part-Time Audiophile
 
mauidan said:
Mike,

I'm sure the S1(haven't heard it) is a wonderful product, but it still has a computer inside it and it's not transfering data to the DAC via CAT6.

The "mark" is decoding the digital files, and that's all about the DAC and flavor of it's analog output stage.

I'm very happy with the performance of the CAT6 signal going into my Auraliti PK 90 w/linear psu and it's USB output into my Aesthetix Pandora Signature DAC.

Instead of spending $15K, for a S1, I ordered a Devialet 200.
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First, the S1 is $12,500 MSRP (much less if ordered through me). The Devialet 200 is a terrific product, I've had one in my system, along with a 800 too. But first, no DSD, second, you must agree to live within the Devialet ecosystem or suffer as the A-D-A is bad at best (save for the Phonostage which I found to be quite good). And as for comparing the DAC in the Devialet with a Lumin (which I did), I still much preferred the sound of the Lumin.

Now, what you could do (and I did) is run digital out of the Lumin into the Devialet and at the Lumin stage, convert at DSD to PCM (not ideal, but it worked).
 
It occurs to me that many of my friends make judgements in the PCM versus DSD wars based on their personal listening experience which has more to do with the level of execution of the player/dac/anolog section than the digital format.

I have seen DSD people flip to PCM and vice versa based of execution of the system. Many strong PCM advocates will have a system (dac) designed for PCM first and use marginally compromised (i.e., sub optimum) DSD playback. When pushed to find out on what system they have based their negative views about DSD I find they haven't listened to DSD at its best.

Conversely, many strong DSD advocates will have a system (dac) designed for DSD first and use compromised PCM playback. When pushed to find out on what system they have based their negative views about PCM I find they haven't listened to PCM at its best.

Personally, when I have heard the best of DSD and the best of PCM I am not able to make a distinction across a wide selection of titles and recordings as to which format is superior.

Based on this view I see no reason to stray from PCM given title availability and the Berkeley RS has my attention.
 
I dont know many people who have a stronger DSD setup than PCM…maybe only the Mytek springs to mind. Most Dacs are PCM first.
I hear a clear diffrence in signature bteween DSD and PCM, both excellent, but DSD128 is untouchable.
 
Mike said:
I still must hear this Norman.

Ok, we've officially hijacked the poor Berkeley thread.

Now back to our regular scheduled programming....
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Not really, not enough people have one yet and reviews are still scarce. We are just running the clock down till we have more material to chew on. LoL
 
I think my Exasound E28 is stronger for DSD than PCM, I could be wrong, since I almost exclusively use the E28 for DSD, and almost all of that is mch DSD. I am playing my first 256DSD file (a beta of an HDTT album, not released yet - stereo, almost certainly from a prerecorded R2R tape). I don't have a PCM version of this album. It works fine with the E28. For PCM files (other than mch) I use my BADA2 +BADA USD.

Larry

wisnon said:
I dont know many people who have a stronger DSD setup than PCM…maybe only the Mytek springs to mind. Most Dacs are PCM first.
I hear a clear diffrence in signature bteween DSD and PCM, both excellent, but DSD128 is untouchable.
Click to expand...
 
wisnon said:
I dont know many people who have a stronger DSD setup than PCM…maybe only the Mytek springs to mind. Most Dacs are PCM first.
I hear a clear diffrence in signature bteween DSD and PCM, both excellent, but DSD128 is untouchable.
Click to expand...


Yes I am familiar with and respect your views on DSD. Regarding your comments, I was referring to top dacs that sound better playing DSD than playing PCM and vice versa. I was not making a distinction about their dac architecture (not sure why I would; the sound is the point). In one camp you have PD, EMM, Meitner, Mytek et. al. and in the other camp you have MSB, Trinity, CH Precision et. al.

My point is when I hear DSD on the PD MPS5 and PCM on the MSD Diamond I do not have a preference and so go for titles. At this level the recording makes much more of a difference to me than the format anyway.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Yes I am familiar with and respect your views on DSD. Regarding your comments, I was referring to top dacs that sound better playing DSD than playing PCM and vice versa. I was not making a distinction about their dac architecture (not sure why I would; the sound is the point). In one camp you have PD, EMM, Meitner, Mytek et. al. and in the other camp you have MSB, Trinity, CH Precision et. al.

My point is when I hear DSD on the PD MPS5 and PCM on the MSD Diamond I do not have a preference and so go for titles. At this level the recording makes much more of a difference to me than the format anyway.
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OK, understood. However, MSB Platinum does lovel DSD as well. Finally, no PCM sounds as good as DSD128…in my opinion.
 
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