Belt Drive Tables Stink

Myles B. Astor said:
You gotta be kidding. I’ve had both in my system. Have you?

Have you compared the same table, one with belt, one with direct, both with the same arm and cartridge at the same time? I have and you are sadly totally wrong.
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You do realize all the top SOTA tt's are BD , you should start reading Stereophile Myles or ask Johnny ..


Regards
 
a.wayne said:
You do realize all the top SOTA tt's are BD , you should start reading Stereophile Myles or ask Johnny ..


Regards
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So I take it the answer is no.

Perhaps you need to start investigating other sources.

The best I've had here is the VPI Vanquish and SAT arm. Top that off with an Atlas SL or vdh Colibri Signature and we are talking resolution, quietness, soundstaging, dynamics and low end up the wazoo. You can't believe LPs have tbat much info on them.

Most of all it is absurd to compare tables based soley on drive systems. You have to consider arm, cartridge, phono cable and phonostage, any of which can make or break the sound. Perhals the most underappreciated aspect is the cadtridge/arm interface and we are not talking resonant frequency. Perhaps the most overated is tracing error eg. see Viv arm with 8 pct distortion at skme pts along the arc. Not to mention setup.
 
Myles B. Astor said:
So I take it the answer is no.

Perhaps you need to start investigating other sources.

The best I've had here is the VPI Vanquish and SAT arm. Top that off with an Atlas SL or vdh Colibri Signature and we are talking resolution, quietness, soundstaging, dynamics and low end up the wazoo. You can't believe LPs have tbat much info on them.

Most of all it is absurd to compare tables based soley on drive systems. You have to consider arm, cartridge, phono cable and phonostage, any of which can make or break the sound. Perhals the most underappreciated aspect is the cadtridge/arm interface and we are not talking resonant frequency. Perhaps the most overated is tracing error eg. see Viv arm with 8 pct distortion at skme pts along the arc. Not to mention setup.
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Thats all academic Myles , anyway, Interesting watching you answer your own questions while ignoring my answers, bet you win all your arguments ..

:)


Read back , i said setup is King , you should compare the VPI to the much cheaper Technics SP10R , not to real superstar BD SOTA tables, BD rules at that level ...

So no BD doesnt suck and neither does DD ...


Regards
 
Myles B. Astor said:
So I take it the answer is no.

Perhaps you need to start investigating other sources.

The best I've had here is the VPI Vanquish and SAT arm. Top that off with an Atlas SL or vdh Colibri Signature and we are talking resolution, quietness, soundstaging, dynamics and low end up the wazoo. You can't believe LPs have tbat much info on them.

Most of all it is absurd to compare tables based soley on drive systems. You have to consider arm, cartridge, phono cable and phonostage, any of which can make or break the sound. Perhals the most underappreciated aspect is the cadtridge/arm interface and we are not talking resonant frequency. Perhaps the most overated is tracing error eg. see Viv arm with 8 pct distortion at skme pts along the arc. Not to mention setup.
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Thats why most went to digital , Analog setup is continuous and never absolute ...
 
I was a direct drive guy for a number of years, and still almost all of my personal experience is with direct drive. yet I've just committed 6 figures of my hard earned dollars to a high mass (550 pounds) belt drive turntable. why? because it did things I had never before heard done from a turntable. the music leaped from the grooves, and the sense of drive and flow and lack of any sort of artifact was spooky.....1/2" tape spooky.

i'm agnostic on turntable design dogma, and all in on what I hear. i think it's all about execution. i do think that direct drive does things at more modest price points which offer advantages over belts due to the lack of great sounding motors for belt drives. but the belt drives offer a bit more space and flow, at the expense of a bit less speed stability. so at mid price points there are choices to be made. but above the mid price all the tt's sound pretty good and there are few drive related compromises.
 
a.wayne said:
Thats all academic Myles , anyway, Interesting watching you answer your own questions while ignoring my answers, bet you win all your arguments ..

:)


Read back , i said setup is King , you should compare the VPI to the much cheaper Technics SP10R , not to real superstar BD SOTA tables, BD rules at that level ...

So no BD doesnt suck and neither does DD ...




Regards
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Answer the simple question. Yes or no. Stop obfuscating.

And I compare it to music and 15 ips tape. In the end, the true reference is the master tape.
 
What's interesting to me is that Brinkmann makes both DD and belt-driven TTs. Seems to me the tech isn't as important as the ultimate execution. For a belt-drive, it means a higher level of execution necessary presumably.
 
KeithR said:
What's interesting to me is that Brinkmann makes both DD and belt-driven TTs. Seems to me the tech isn't as important as the ultimate execution. For a belt-drive, it means a higher level of execution necessary presumably.
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You nailed it, its the execution along with quality parts in the design and assembly of the turntable. I've seen people take the best parts out there and slap them on a device just because they read it online with no regard for the design and the functionally of the device and it ends up functioning below the expectations of the owner. It all maters if you want the best out of your device, be it a TT, computer or a car. .
 
Myles B. Astor said:
Answer the simple question. Yes or no. Stop obfuscating.

And I compare it to music and 15 ips tape. In the end, the true reference is the master tape.
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Look up , I had already answered way back , more than once , so here goes again, i have all drive types and if thats not clear enough ,

1. DD
2. BD
3. Idler

There's also , Tape, yes 15ips , even a few of my own recordings, from the days when i actually designed playback systems in studios , then there's some digital , i still play shiny disc stuff (only1500 thou) there's two tuners , listen to FM jazz programs about twice a week , Toobs and SS gear , pre and power , A full assortment of loudspeaker testing gear as i still have my LMS/Leap testing suite , a few dynamic point source speakers , floor standers and stand ones , currently 7 ft tall Ribbon dipole/Hybrid occupies the listening space , a bigger 4 tower one is expected later this year, if i can wager the time, these use true Ribbons , not the quasi stuff others peddle as true ribbons, unfortunately they still suck over 20amps from the wall socket to power them ..

as well as but not least ,

A multitude of prototype stuff made by those still making "stuff" in the crazy business , some really really good , some so so , but i get to evaluate and give my 2 cents, ears not as golden as yours or your current prento , but i try ... :)

BTW, The only True reference is live music , you know like the ones you actually record yourself ..

Have any..?

Funny how you pop up every 5 yrs Myles with the same questions and absolute statements , i see not much has changed since your Audio Adventure days when you would come into my room , are you still listening to those 3 ft apart Logans ...


Anyway feel free to teach me "stuff" instead of discussion ..



Regards
 
asiufy said:
The latest 1200G already are game changers. We've replaced several Regas and VPIs for 1200Gs, and nobody complained about them not being dead quiet...
alex
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agreed and with that being said I will continue to use and enjoy my VPI Aries III with super platter and SDS unit.
 
My two cents:

RIM drives suck ass, especially if you have high efficiency speakers.
I love well designed DD tables. The key is proper isolation from the motor or the vibrations are transmitted back into the cart/arm. DD tables have excellent PRAT. This would be my preference because of speed perfection. In my opinion, speed perfection is paramount to world class vinyl playback.
Belt drives are a safe smart bet. They don’t have the micro resonance issues or risks associated with some DD tables and are generally speed acceptable.
 
a.wayne said:
Look up , I had already answered way back , more than once , so here goes again, i have all drive types and if thats not clear enough ,

1. DD
2. BD
3. Idler

There's also , Tape, yes 15ips , even a few of my own recordings, from the days when i actually designed playback systems in studios , then there's some digital , i still play shiny disc stuff (only1500 thou) there's two tuners , listen to FM jazz programs about twice a week , Toobs and SS gear , pre and power , A full assortment of loudspeaker testing gear as i still have my LMS/Leap testing suite , a few dynamic point source speakers , floor standers and stand ones , currently 7 ft tall Ribbon dipole/Hybrid occupies the listening space , a bigger 4 tower one is expected later this year, if i can wager the time, these use true Ribbons , not the quasi stuff others peddle as true ribbons, unfortunately they still suck over 20amps from the wall socket to power them ..

as well as but not least ,

A multitude of prototype stuff made by those still making "stuff" in the crazy business , some really really good , some so so , but i get to evaluate and give my 2 cents, ears not as golden as yours or your current prento , but i try ... :)

BTW, The only True reference is live music , you know like the ones you actually record yourself ..

Have any..?

Funny how you pop up every 5 yrs Myles with the same questions and absolute statements , i see not much has changed since your Audio Adventure days when you would come into my room , are you still listening to those 3 ft apart Logans ...


Anyway feel free to teach me "stuff" instead of discussion ..



Regards
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You still haven’t answered the question.

Funny, I see you are as big a troll �� as ever and as sloppy about your facts as you are your knowledge.
 
Mike said:
I love well designed DD tables. The key is proper isolation from the motor or the vibrations are transmitted back into the cart/arm.
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any specific examples meeting these requirements that you recommend? priced within "reason" is always nice too.
 
aKnyght said:
any specific examples meeting these requirements that you recommend? priced within "reason" is always nice too.
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I've been bugging Mat to create a sub-$10K VPI DD TT. Fingers crossed it happens. The Technics looks good.
 
Mike said:
I've been bugging Mat to create a sub-$10K VPI DD TT. Fingers crossed it happens. The Technics looks good.
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a < $10k VPI DD would be nice! and the new technics sl-1200gr does look good - a lot of nice enhancements in the new version.

the brinkmann bardo getting a lot of love in this thread as well.
 
Mike said:
My two cents:

RIM drives suck ass, especially if you have high efficiency speakers.
I love well designed DD tables. The key is proper isolation from the motor or the vibrations are transmitted back into the cart/arm. DD tables have excellent PRAT. This would be my preference because of speed perfection. In my opinion, speed perfection is paramount to world class vinyl playback.
Belt drives are a safe smart bet. They don’t have the micro resonance issues or risks associated with some DD tables and are generally speed acceptable.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with that statement. I currently have the Avenger with the rim drive and I think it's all about how you setup the rim drive. Mine is dead quiet. If you don't adjust the rim drive correctly, it will affect speed and noise.
 
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