beginner needs help!

O

Old Bob

New member
Joined
May 27, 2016
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good morning! I am upgrading my OLD system. i still have LOTS to learn. I just bought 2 bowers and wilkins CM6 S2 bookshelf speakers. a lot of quality sound from small boxes!
i am using my OLD SAE preamp and power amp.



i want to get an integrated amp, or, preamp and power amp. i have been reading that tube amps might be really good. that is really alien to my way of thinking! i welcome any advice! i do like reading and learning.
the speakers say:
[TABLE="class: specTable"]
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[TD][/TD]
[TD]sensitivity 88dB spl (2.83V, 1m) suggest 30-120 watts/8 ohms.
my room is 13 by 13 feet, 10 foot ceiling. i enjoy full orchestra classical music, think, Berlin Philharmonic, Beethoven's Fifth, also SOME Eric Clapton, Led Zeppelin,Mountain, but NOT at deafening levels, but loud. i want quality sound first and foremost.

dumb questions:
1.can you suggest an integrated amp, OR, preamp and power amp. i am NOT ruling out tubes, and am now reading about McIntosh, Prima Luna,
Rogue Audio, etc.
2. should i consider a used amp from audio classics.?

i may say, the idea of me buying a USED TUBE AMP in beyond belief!

i am open to any and all advice! i am not a billionaire. i would be wiling to buy a prima luna prologue premium integrated for $2400, or their power amp for $2200, and use my SAE preamp for a while.

the McIntosh integrated amp is 100 watts and $4500, i think that is solid state.
the McIntosh tube amp is $5500, pretty steep price for me.

thanks so much! would like any advice!
best,
Bob

[/TD]
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[/TABLE]
 
Welcome Bob. Audio Classics are great guys and Mike Sastra is the guy I've dealt with over the years. McIntosh is definitely high on the list. Did they mention what model it was? I'm trying to recall if there is a current tube integrated in the Mcintosh lineup.

PrimaLuna is also terrific and Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio is the guy to talk to. I like their KT150 based integrated - lot.

The other integrated amp to look is the Jadis I-50 (I think?) which also is KT150 based.

Audio Research (ARC) makes a great integrated as well.

There's a pretty cool integrated from Vinnie Rossie called the Lio you may want to check out. It's modular based. Pick the pieces you need. Not sure it has enough power for 88db.

IF you can find a good deal on a preowned VAC 160i or 160i SE, that's another worth considering that may come in your budget.

Happy hunting!
 
One more: Octave Audio makes a nice tube integrated amp as well. TheIr new KT150 looks nice. I have a customer who owns one and loves it.
 
THANK YOU Mike!

lots for me to learn. I checked your systems, and see that you are a real nut! ( I mean enthusiast!) ha!

I printed out your replies, and will look up your systems. I have heard good things about prima luna.

if I get a tube amp, is it hard to change the tubes? I am NOT an electrical engineer. it looks like your triodes are TUBE amps. I will look up all your components. how do I know WHEN to change tubes, which tube, and where to buy the tube>? I do like the name McIntosh, famous when I was a kid, and would consider a used Mac tube amp.

dumb question:
for my needs, should I look at tubes, or solid state amps? small room, not deafening loud.

thanks!
have a great day!
bob
 
Ha! Thanks (I think) [emoji6]. If you can change a lightbulb, you can change a tube, except you wiggle it in and wiggle it out (as opposed to screwing it in and out like a lightbulb). There is typically an alignment peg that juts out of the inside of the tube and corresponds with the alignment slot on the amp. Meaning, they will only go in one way.

You will need to change tubes when one is going or has gone. You will know because it will sound bad or not work at all.

There are benefits to both tubes and solid state. It depends on whether this is a system you are going to run 12 hours a day. If so, go solid state. If it's going on just for a few hours of listening a day (or less) go tubes. There are camps of fans of both. There are some Class A solid state amps which get close to the sound of tubes. The Pass INT-30a (older model) and Pass INT-60 (new model) come to mind.

If it was me and I didn't need to run my amp 12 hours a day, I would go with that Prima Luna HP Integrated with KT150's. It fits the budget and power requirements and the ever energetic and knowledgable Kevin Deal will help you. He's very knowledgeable about the PrimaLuna HP integrated and KT150's.

Once the tube amp warms up, say in 15-20 minutes, you will be back on this thread posting "holy sh!t, now I know why there's a fuss about tubes!"
 
The PrimaLuna HP Integrated is a seriously good integrated that punches way above it's weight. The tubes can be changed from EL 34, KT 88, KT 120, KT 150 & the int. will do all the bias work for you etc, thats right, they are plug & play, so easy.If you have a tube go bad there are lights on the tube base panel that light up & all you have to do is swap them out one by one to find it. The int is very kind on tubes & as such doesn't run at extreme hot temperatures that some tube amps do, as here, you have to remember that they are basically light bulbs so yes they get hot & put out heat. When I had one I paired Mullards with the KT 150's & really liked it, even the wife gave it her approval which is rare & mentioned it just made her want to dance.
If you have a small room with poor ventilation tubes can be a real pain unless you have an air conditioner, then it's better to go with solid state. Tubes bring something to the mix that very few audiophiles can live without once they have experienced them.

http://www.audioshark.org/amp-reviews-90/primaluna-dialogue-hp-line-magnetic-219ia-ayon-audio-epsilon-7682.html
 
THANK YOU BZR!!!!!

after all these years, i cannot believe i am going to buy a tube amp or integrated amp!

best regards,

Bob
 
Bob,

The tubes in the Primaluna should last many years. They are run very conservatively giving them a long life.
 
to Mike!

morning! I will try to call you at sun coast audio. it is VERY nice of you to recommend OTHER dealers, when YOU are a dealer! best regards! bob
 
Old Bob said:
to Mike!

morning! I will try to call you at sun coast audio. it is VERY nice of you to recommend OTHER dealers, when YOU are a dealer! best regards! bob
Click to expand...

First, thank you. Second, it's most important that you get the right product. As always, it's best if you can audition for yourself. We can only give you ideas, but if possible, go and listen.
 
a quick note to all about Mike from suncoast audio. mike spoke with me at GREAT length on the phone today, and answered all my beginner questions! most of his superb gear is beyond my price point, but he took great pains to recommend OTHER specific models and dealers. to my mind, this is unique in the audio world! he is definitely in this for the love, not the money.he convinced me that tube amps are the most economical way to GREAT sound! I would recommend that you all consider him first, for your high end audio needs! THANKS MIKE!

sincerely,
Bob:)
 
hi bzr! if you mean, what will i get, i likely will get a prima luna, either the integrated dialog premium hp with KT 150 tubes, or the dialog premium hp stereo power amp.mostly on Mike's advice! i guess i have talked with enough people that i want to try tube amps after all these years! ha!
i am looking up your equipment. the Ayon monos seem like great tube amps. never heard of them. maybe because i am still a beginner, or because in australia you have different brands? do you like the amps?
i believe i am going to get the OPPO 103 CD player on Mike's advice. your wilson seems like a subwoofer. do not understand the isotek, why do you need power "conditioning"?
your Solution seems like solid state preamp?

you have a GREAT system! have a good day!
bob


[h=2][/h]
 
Thanks Bob. The Ayon amps are Austrian, had a great run with them, love them. The Soulution 520 is a ss pre that is special, spelt very expensive, has a very good phono stage in it as well. The oPPo will sound great through a tube integrated like the PrimaLuna Dialogue HP. Wilson Benesch is very famous for the subwoofer/"infrasonic generator", as well as their speakers too. My advice is don't worry about power conditioning for quite some time if ever.
 
BZR: a dumb question. what speakers do you have? I think the wilsons were subwoofers, what regular speakers do you have? bob
 
Wilson Benesch Trinity. They were the actual passive speaker pairing for the design of the Wilson Benesch Torus Infrasonic Generator. With a bit of attention to the room,cables & set-up & if they are paired with the right components they are indeed a seemless & very good pairing.
 
Old Bob said:
a quick note to all about Mike from suncoast audio. mike spoke with me at GREAT length on the phone today, and answered all my beginner questions! most of his superb gear is beyond my price point, but he took great pains to recommend OTHER specific models and dealers. to my mind, this is unique in the audio world! he is definitely in this for the love, not the money.he convinced me that tube amps are the most economical way to GREAT sound! I would recommend that you all consider him first, for your high end audio needs! THANKS MIKE!

sincerely,
Bob:)
Click to expand...

Bob...I am happy you have gotten to get to know Mike like many of us do. His integrity is beyond reproach. So from another appreciative admirer's of Mike, I would definitely concur with your conclusions. Good luck as you re-enter this wonderful and crazy hobby. I have read all the comments and you have gotten some wonderful advice. One which Mike gives above I will strongly urge you to stick to and that is, if possible, try to listen to the gear before you purchase. It will be hard to find everything you were thinking of trying out at one dealer and you may not be able to match the components that you want to hear together, but it's better than nothing and in doing the demos in person and being attentive to the sound you are hearing, you will start formulating stronger ideas about what you like and don't like, which will be an invaluable insight to have as you progress down the rabbit hole :D

Good luck.
 
thank you cmalak!
my goal is to someday buy some equipment from Mike. in fact this Saturday I plan to go to a store in new Hampshire that has prima luna and also has my exact bowers and wilkins speakers. my goal, is to decide if I LIKE tube amps or not. I may say I am amazed at what audio equipment is out there, and the prices!! airtight tube amps of 80 watts for $13,000! new/used, solid state/tubes, common, rare. siltech speakers for $90,000. wow.
I think I am lucky that my room is 13 by 13, with 10 foot ceiling. I do not need 700 watts/side. I have listened to lots of music lately, volume control rarely even halfway up. probably a 40 year old SAE 50 watt power amp, SAE preamp, and my new bowers and wilkins.
"progress down the rabbit hole"! exactly! I took Mike's advice and saw, on you tube, Eva Cassidy singing over the rainbow. what a voice!



what music do YOU like?


this may be the golden age of stereos!
have a super day!
bob
I will look up your stereo equipment.
 
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