a.wayne
Well-known member
I read they (VSA) had 75K worth of tube traps and were running their subs out of phase in an attempt to control the bass ....
Axpona 2017 Best Of
- Thread starter Mike
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I read they (VSA) had 75K worth of tube traps and were running their subs out of phase in an attempt to control the bass ....
- Thread Author
- #22
$75k seems a little high, but there were a boat load of ASC tube traps. Not sure about the out of phase bit. Their speakers have bass adjustability in the back - I believe.
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It was a forest of Tube Traps in that room but their efforts were rewarded by some really fine sound. The VAC linestage, phonostage and monoblocks really shined in that system.
Ken
a.wayne
Well-known member
Heard the Vac's at Mike , i was impressed , their best effort todate .....
the professor
Well-known member
bthomas9
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- Jul 18, 2014
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- 419
I'll agree they they didn't sound the best of, especially Friday. The bass was bloated and flabby. They tweaked positioning Friday night and Saturday was so much better. I was in there at the same time as Fremer and he played 1 track, vinyl of course, from three different albums and said he would have liked to stayed and play more. Toe swinging most of the time. So, to say it wasn't best of...I'll agree, but it was still VERY good imo
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the professor
Well-known member
Probably not that many. But even if there were . . . so?
Anybody spending that much money on a system is probably be spending about that much on the room they are going to be in. And they take weeks/months/years running their system, not 2 hours. Anybody that writes off a manufacturer because a show room didn't sound as good as it could is CRAZY and frankly clueless of the reality of show conditions.
After 40+ years of going to audio shows - all you can do is say how a certain system in a particular room sounds. That's all.
On the real ugly side of a show and some manufacturers, there seems to always be at every show some "deception" by a manufacturer or two playing equipment that is not disclosed. It's scary what is behind the curtain in some of these rooms. All you can do is look at product and talk to the manufacture's rep. It gives you an idea if they are manufacture you want to do business with so you can do a proper demo.
Anybody spending that much money on a system is probably be spending about that much on the room they are going to be in. And they take weeks/months/years running their system, not 2 hours. Anybody that writes off a manufacturer because a show room didn't sound as good as it could is CRAZY and frankly clueless of the reality of show conditions.
After 40+ years of going to audio shows - all you can do is say how a certain system in a particular room sounds. That's all.
On the real ugly side of a show and some manufacturers, there seems to always be at every show some "deception" by a manufacturer or two playing equipment that is not disclosed. It's scary what is behind the curtain in some of these rooms. All you can do is look at product and talk to the manufacture's rep. It gives you an idea if they are manufacture you want to do business with so you can do a proper demo.
the professor
Well-known member
I really really liked the room with the "Destination Audio" $95,000 horns in it. I think that's probably my best room - price no object.
I'd probably give the Cambridge Audio room for best sound on a budget.
As far as individual components - no clue because it's a system/room and without taking a component out and putting another one in which is impossible under these conditions - no way to tell what it's doing.
I'd probably give the Cambridge Audio room for best sound on a budget.
As far as individual components - no clue because it's a system/room and without taking a component out and putting another one in which is impossible under these conditions - no way to tell what it's doing.
- Thread Author
- #30
The destination horns were great. Don't agree on the individual components. An Avenger will outperform a REGA RP1 all day.
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La Dolce Vita
New member
Depends on what you mean by outperform. A $10K or $20K table should (hopefully) outperform a $500 table. But... when you say outperform what are the metrics you are using? Perhaps price/performance ratio for example? This could change things. Also which cartridges are being used on each? All this comes into play I feel... not to mention phono stage pairings etc...
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They seemed to get better every day but the room/setup wasn't a standout sonically in my opinion. It did sound very good though.
Ken
It was a very good event. Lots of rooms, equipment and good/diverse crowd. Lots of good music for sale - bought quite a bit!
Below are my impressions:
- Best Rooms: MBL and Wilson Alexx/DAG Pre, Phono, Bridged M400s 4(!)/DCS/Transparent
- Enjoyable/Potential: Zesto/Marten, ELAC, ARC/Sonus, Avangarte, Spatial/Lampi, Esoteric/Canton altho a bit too bright at times (grandioso clock makes a huge difference), Vivid G1 has potential but the room did not help, Doshi/Wilson, Tidal/Bricasti, Constellation/ML (although room was too small), Joseph/Rowland
Revel Salon 2s are still making these shows. Kevin V was playing them with the new ML gear. Depending on the music, they sounded great or just good. Incredible they are still this competitive after 10+ years!
Lots of VPI, Aurender, Berkeley frond ends.
Marketplace had a lot of great music. I purchased a lot of vinyl.
Did not make it to the personal audio area.
Lastly, great catching up with friends and meeting people.
Below are my impressions:
- Best Rooms: MBL and Wilson Alexx/DAG Pre, Phono, Bridged M400s 4(!)/DCS/Transparent
- Enjoyable/Potential: Zesto/Marten, ELAC, ARC/Sonus, Avangarte, Spatial/Lampi, Esoteric/Canton altho a bit too bright at times (grandioso clock makes a huge difference), Vivid G1 has potential but the room did not help, Doshi/Wilson, Tidal/Bricasti, Constellation/ML (although room was too small), Joseph/Rowland
Revel Salon 2s are still making these shows. Kevin V was playing them with the new ML gear. Depending on the music, they sounded great or just good. Incredible they are still this competitive after 10+ years!
Lots of VPI, Aurender, Berkeley frond ends.
Marketplace had a lot of great music. I purchased a lot of vinyl.
Did not make it to the personal audio area.
Lastly, great catching up with friends and meeting people.
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- Thread Author
- #34
I'm not going to argue, I'm too tired. Through thousands of rooms and listening over 40 years I can get a good idea of what is doing what - especially when they change something out from previous years or like when I hear a product I know very well and hear what the amps are doing or the source. Have I been wrong? Of course. But usually I get a pretty good idea of what is doing what.
You want examples? I was the FIRST to rave about the Kronos and did so for years before anyone caught on. I remember posting on another site and getting razzed about how it was a gimmick and it would never put perform an SME, Avid or turntable of the day. I stuck to my guns. And now where's Kronos? Considered one of the best. I don't recall people saying "oh Mike, it could have been the speakers or amps". The superiority of the Kronos shined through.
I was the first to talk about how great the Chord DAVE sounded after hearing it at CES's debut. It was several months before anyone else noticed.
What about the Lumin? They weren't in business 9 months before I was the first to talk about how great it was (despite the poo-pooers from the Linn fans).
You learn characteristics of equipment and with experience you get a pretty good idea of what is doing what (you're not always right, but there is no substitute for experience).
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You want examples? I was the FIRST to rave about the Kronos and did so for years before anyone caught on. I remember posting on another site and getting razzed about how it was a gimmick and it would never put perform an SME, Avid or turntable of the day. I stuck to my guns. And now where's Kronos? Considered one of the best. I don't recall people saying "oh Mike, it could have been the speakers or amps". The superiority of the Kronos shined through.
I was the first to talk about how great the Chord DAVE sounded after hearing it at CES's debut. It was several months before anyone else noticed.
What about the Lumin? They weren't in business 9 months before I was the first to talk about how great it was (despite the poo-pooers from the Linn fans).
You learn characteristics of equipment and with experience you get a pretty good idea of what is doing what (you're not always right, but there is no substitute for experience).
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- Thread Author
- #35
I'm biting my tongue on this one. Let's just say it wasn't the speakers holding things back. The sound was very different when the TT and digital was played vs an old Sony R2R. I have some experience with old R2R's and trust me, they can sound pretty awful. A trip to John French, 6 months and a few dollars fixes that. With old R2R's, caps start to leak, electronics start to go, etc.
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the professor
Well-known member
Yes
But being devils advocate, you don't know how that Avenger is set up and the same about the Rega, if mister thumbs sets up the avenger - maybe a properly rega does sound better. Maybe a guy thats attending touching stuff screws it up mid day. You just don't know.
Or a tube goes out in the pre amp and all of a sudden there is no center - but the people running the room never have a chance to listen until the end of the day. Nobodies fault - but it happens in show conditions.
But being devils advocate, you don't know how that Avenger is set up and the same about the Rega, if mister thumbs sets up the avenger - maybe a properly rega does sound better. Maybe a guy thats attending touching stuff screws it up mid day. You just don't know.
Or a tube goes out in the pre amp and all of a sudden there is no center - but the people running the room never have a chance to listen until the end of the day. Nobodies fault - but it happens in show conditions.
- Thread Author
- #37
All true, and Aliens could invade, but we are left to judge the BEST OF, not the worst of - especially if someone f'ed with it. So if someone messed with it and it sounds bad, it's not in the best of list. So it's irrelevant. Mat set up the Avengers for the show. I presume he knows what he's doing.
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the professor
Well-known member
You absolutely get tendencies.
If every room you hear ABC amps it sounds great. Then they are probably pretty good. And the opposite is true too, if every room you hear ABC amps and it's awful then ya have a pretty good idea there too.
Also, when you have heard various products in your own room and are intimately familiar with, then you pretty much know what they are adding/subtracting from a particular system. So if you know everything in the room intimately except one item - then it's just how well they play together. Oh and then the room . . . . .
If every room you hear ABC amps it sounds great. Then they are probably pretty good. And the opposite is true too, if every room you hear ABC amps and it's awful then ya have a pretty good idea there too.
Also, when you have heard various products in your own room and are intimately familiar with, then you pretty much know what they are adding/subtracting from a particular system. So if you know everything in the room intimately except one item - then it's just how well they play together. Oh and then the room . . . . .
- Thread Author
- #39
Yes all true. Although I don't advise others to do this, I have purchased items based on show experiences alone. Rare, but I have.
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the professor
Well-known member
We both have bought things with no listening experience at all. Not the best way to purchase stuff for sure. But . . . . never said I was smart.
Like i say - I'm just being devils advocate. I certainly have my opinions after the few hundred shows I've gone to. But I really don't know - just educated guesses on how things will sound.
Like i say - I'm just being devils advocate. I certainly have my opinions after the few hundred shows I've gone to. But I really don't know - just educated guesses on how things will sound.