Auditioning amps

Today I started auditioning a rather accomplished integrated in my system: Boulder 865.

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150 wpc into 8 and 300 wpc into 4 Ohms should suffice for most purposes. Up to 10 wpc in Class A, the Boulder appears so efficient not sure how much more I need most of the time.

While this amp has been available for almost a decade now, it is still great. With Boulder entering the UK market again it has also gotten some attention lately from the reviewing profession.

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/boulder-amplifiers-865-integrated-amplifier/

In my system the first day, I must say I am quite impressed, it is a grown up amp. Overall on the neutral side, but with an astonishing bass and no hardness at all in the top range. Clearly bettering the Ayre AX-5/20 and T+A PA3000 HV integrated amps in the bass at least, I have had in my system for longer periods of time. In the mids and highs the others might be a tad more delicate and have more sparkle at this point, but let’s see when it is properly warmed up in a couple of days. At least Rodney Jones’ guitar sings nicely on Christian McBride’s new vinyl and the brass band sounds nice and smooth.

Somehow I have the feeling I am going to enjoy this.


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GSOphile said:
Stereophile did a review of the Boulder 810/860 December 2007 - available on their web site.
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Yes, and Wes Philips reviewed the Boulder 865 in ‘09 and quite liked it.

It has just now popped up again in Europe, as Boulder is relaunching in the UK. What I find surprising though is that it holds its ground against some of the best more recent integrated amps.

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Kuoppis said:
Today I started auditioning a rather accomplished integrated in my system: Boulder 865.

2d0f523f34119d8be9599674ff5c98c4.jpg


150 wpc into 8 and 300 wpc into 4 Ohms should suffice for most purposes. Up to 10 wpc in Class A, the Boulder appears so efficient not sure how much more I need most of the time.

While this amp has been available for almost a decade now, it is still great. With Boulder entering the UK market again it has also gotten some attention lately from the reviewing profession.

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/boulder-amplifiers-865-integrated-amplifier/

In my system the first day, I must say I am quite impressed, it is a grown up amp. Overall on the neutral side, but with an astonishing bass and no hardness at all in the top range. Clearly bettering the Ayre AX-5/20 and T+A PA3000 HV integrated amps in the bass at least, I have had in my system for longer periods of time. In the mids and highs the others might be a tad more delicate and have more sparkle at this point, but let’s see when it is properly warmed up in a couple of days. At least Rodney Jones’ guitar sings nicely on Christian McBride’s new vinyl and the brass band sounds nice and smooth.

Somehow I have the feeling I am going to enjoy this.


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Click to expand...

Having the Boulder 865 running for three days straight the highs have now caught up with the rest of the system, this baby is really good.

I don’t know whether it is the impact of running it in theater mode with the Ayre KX-5/20 as a pre, but the sound is just fantastic. Eva Cassidy/ Nightbird live recording puts you right into the venue.

Might just buy an 8-year old design [emoji3]. How about that.


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Today I auditioned the Soulution 710 power amp at a hifi dealer’s (711 was not available).

151eea693d0cc8cd3c00f21536eb04a3.jpg


I was looking forward to spend some 2 hrs of alone time with a Soulution apart from the trade shows and in a better acoustic environment. This is as I liked what I heard in Munich and because of the rave reviews.

The good, bad and the ugly:
- absolutely stunning bass grip
- superb details
- exceptional imaging
- rather dark sound overall
- no whatsoever harshness in the top end
- rather neutral, but I don’t mind that

So, any good? Surprisingly no. I felt like this is an amp you admire for what it can do, but not one you fall in love with.
- no Pass like sweetness in the top end
- sound is very dry, almost Class D flavor
- no bloom in the sound
- no toe tapping on my end

Listened to Malia, Charly Antolini, Joey Baron (with Arthur Blythe, Ron Carter and the wonderful Bill Frisell on guitar). Bill’s guitar sounded mechanical, at home it’s nothing like that. It’s almost like Bill forgot the phrasing when he played in the store. There was no real groove, I felt like doing home chores listening to it. I actually did not enjoy listening to the music and was just constantly thinking about the technically flawless performance. It felt a little bit like listening to a Devialet. The Soulution was doing everything absolutely right that it was doing (perfect measured performance), but it was not doing everything other amps are doing.

The Soulution is of course a technical marvel and a great amp, but it’s just not for me. I guess the speakers might have played a big part in the overall perception, they were some very expensive boutique transducers I was not familiar with. Maybe I need to hear a Soulution in my own system to get a better impression, maybe the 711.


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I could only wish for sub-optimal speaker placement during a dealer audition. I've spent a considerable amount of time building up the system I currently own and really took my time to listen to as many brands/models within a reasonable driving distance from my home (I once drove 6 hours to audition a speaker at a dealer). I can't tell you the number of times that left and right channels were switched or the speakers were wired out of phase. I mean, I get that if I walk into some place with low-fi or entry-level gear that the person demonstrating the system wouldn't know any better, but these were solid mid-fi systems (e.g., Magnepan 3.7i's with Marantz SACD front-end and Classe M600 monoblocks). I agree that the best way to audition is to get the gear in your own listening room.

Congratulations on the new Pass Labs X250.8. I've been happily enjoying my Pass Labs XP10 for the last year and a half and am considering whether to upgrade my monoblocks to X260.8's when the time comes. I'd like to hear the Sanders 10e system first, however, as that might dictate a change in direction in my system -- probably need to wait for AXPONA 2018 to do that!
 
tino27 said:
I could only wish for sub-optimal speaker placement during a dealer audition. I've spent a considerable amount of time building up the system I currently own and really took my time to listen to as many brands/models within a reasonable driving distance from my home (I once drove 6 hours to audition a speaker at a dealer). I can't tell you the number of times that left and right channels were switched or the speakers were wired out of phase. I mean, I get that if I walk into some place with low-fi or entry-level gear that the person demonstrating the system wouldn't know any better, but these were solid mid-fi systems (e.g., Magnepan 3.7i's with Marantz SACD front-end and Classe M600 monoblocks). I agree that the best way to audition is to get the gear in your own listening room.

Congratulations on the new Pass Labs X250.8. I've been happily enjoying my Pass Labs XP10 for the last year and a half and am considering whether to upgrade my monoblocks to X260.8's when the time comes. I'd like to hear the Sanders 10e system first, however, as that might dictate a change in direction in my system -- probably need to wait for AXPONA 2018 to do that!
Click to expand...

Speakers and room for sure had something to do with the sound. A real evaluation is only possible in familiar a system + environment and when only one component is switched at a time. But I think it is possible to get a feeling for the flavor.

And thanks, I really like Pass Labs. Hopefully the X260.8s will materialize for you.


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KeithR said:
Have always considered Soulution the Halcro of the 2010s...
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I think they are really, really great in some aspects and well, in some others maybe not.


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Have you auditioned any tube amps? I’m in the process of evaluating an Audio Research VT80SE amp and LS28 preamp. They sound marvelous ......the bass is the best I have heard in my 11x14 room, very defined more so than my Pass INT60. It’s a very different and lovely presentation for my system compared to solid state. Heat output might be the deciding factor for me. Ideally would like to have both....can’t have enough amps huh Joe! Lol
Larry
 
Dguitarnut said:
Have you auditioned any tube amps? I’m in the process of evaluating an Audio Research VT80SE amp and LS28 preamp. They sound marvelous ......the bass is the best I have heard in my 11x14 room, very defined more so than my Pass INT60. It’s a very different and lovely presentation for my system compared to solid state. Heat output might be the deciding factor for me. Ideally would like to have both....can’t have enough amps huh Joe! Lol
Larry
Click to expand...

Hi Larry, thank you for the suggestions. I have had a couple of tube amps earlier from Ayon, EAR, Octave and ARC and liked their sound. My three reservations are heat dissipation, need for tube adjustments and regular variations in sound. Of these the third one is the most severe for me. Thus I am focusing on SS amps for now, as they suit my user behavior better.

But there are of course also tube amps of interest, like the GS Series ARC separates or the largest Octave integrated amps. I have also heard VTLs are great. The VT80SE I have not heard yet, but will keep my eyes open at shows. Of course, this side of the pond auditioning US brands is more difficult.

Also, I am currently interested in the impact of head room in amps, i.e. the influence of larger amp power reserves on the sound. This is what I enjoy a lots with the Pass currently. Even if not listening at very high SPL, the power reserves allow for better speed, transient response and enable this sweetness in the Pass top end. The Soulution was also wicked fast due to its 1,000,000 μF capacitance, but I felt it lacked some PRaT and sounded more like a machine than an amp.


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Kuoppis said:
Today I auditioned the Soulution 710 power amp at a hifi dealer’s (711 was not available).

151eea693d0cc8cd3c00f21536eb04a3.jpg


I was looking forward to spend some 2 hrs of alone time with a Soulution apart from the trade shows and in a better acoustic environment. This is as I liked what I heard in Munich and because of the rave reviews.

The good, bad and the ugly:
- absolutely stunning bass grip
- superb details
- exceptional imaging
- rather dark sound overall
- no whatsoever harshness in the top end
- rather neutral, but I don’t mind that

So, any good? Surprisingly no. I felt like this is an amp you admire for what it can do, but not one you fall in love with.
- no Pass like sweetness in the top end
- sound is very dry, almost Class D flavor
- no bloom in the sound
- no toe tapping on my end

Listened to Malia, Charly Antolini, Joey Baron (with Arthur Blythe, Ron Carter and the wonderful Bill Frisell on guitar). Bill’s guitar sounded mechanical, at home it’s nothing like that. It’s almost like Bill forgot the phrasing when he played in the store. There was no real groove, I felt like doing home chores listening to it. I actually did not enjoy listening to the music and was just constantly thinking about the technically flawless performance. It felt a little bit like listening to a Devialet. The Soulution was doing everything absolutely right that it was doing (perfect measured performance), but it was not doing everything other amps are doing.

The Soulution is of course a technical marvel and a great amp, but it’s just not for me. I guess the speakers might have played a big part in the overall perception, they were some very expensive boutique transducers I was not familiar with. Maybe I need to hear a Soulution in my own system to get a better impression, maybe the 711.


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Click to expand...

Even if I admire what Soulution has accomplished with their amps, I could never fall in love with them. In fact, they seem to have no evident shortfalls, but imho they are not engaging, the tap factor - for me - is missing. Listening to music for me is a very emotional experience and I can hardly sit still with an engaging system.

If I like a system or a single component, honestly I don’t care much if it is completely neutral or not, I just have to like it’s sound.

It’s just like with a woman ;-)

So Kuoppis, if you like the Boulder just take it and don’t care about the age of the concept or the excellent fame of Soulution.




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Kuoppis said:
Hi Larry, thank you for the suggestions. I have had a couple of tube amps earlier from Ayon, EAR, Octave and ARC and liked their sound. My three reservations are heat dissipation, need for tube adjustments and regular variations in sound. Of these the third one is the most severe for me. Thus I am focusing on SS amps for now, as they suit my user behavior better.

But there are of course also tube amps of interest, like the GS Series ARC separates or the largest Octave integrated amps. I have also heard VTLs are great. The VT80SE I have not heard yet, but will keep my eyes open at shows. Of course, this side of the pond auditioning US brands is more difficult.

Also, I am currently interested in the impact of head room in amps, i.e. the influence of larger amp power reserves on the sound. This is what I enjoy a lots with the Pass currently. Even if not listening at very high SPL, the power reserves allow for better speed, transient response and enable this sweetness in the Pass top end. The Soulution was also wicked fast due to its 1,000,000 μF capacitance, but I felt it lacked some PRaT and sounded more like a machine than an amp.


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Click to expand...
The beauty of the VT80SE is that it has that auto bias like the Vac IQ amps...and it being a 75Watt amp it will not be as hot as the 150 to 300 watters which would be impossible in my small room. But the con is the lack of headroom the larger amps have. I am considering though mating a tube preamp with something like the Pass you have. Or just get the Diablo himself..............
For the time being though I want to break in my S3mk2s and let my wallet recover.
Half the fun of this hobby is agonizing about the next upgrade anyhow.
 
Dguitarnut said:
The beauty of the VT80SE is that it has that auto bias like the Vac IQ amps...and it being a 75Watt amp it will not be as hot as the 150 to 300 watters which would be impossible in my small room. But the con is the lack of headroom the larger amps have. I am considering though mating a tube preamp with something like the Pass you have. Or just get the Diablo himself..............
For the time being though I want to break in my S3mk2s and let my wallet recover.
Half the fun of this hobby is agonizing about the next upgrade anyhow.
Click to expand...

I think a tube pre with a potent SS power amp is kind of the ideal setup. You get the tube niceness and still have the headroom.

A Pass/ ARC combo might be very nice. I kind of like the ARC SP20 as I am not so much into the handles.


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Audiophon said:
Even if I admire what Soulution has accomplished with their amps, I could never fall in love with them. In fact, they seem to have no evident shortfalls, but imho they are not engaging, the tap factor - for me - is missing. Listening to music for me is a very emotional experience and I can hardly sit still with an engaging system.

If I like a system or a single component, honestly I don’t care much if it is completely neutral or not, I just have to like it’s sound.

It’s just like with a woman ;-)

So Kuoppis, if you like the Boulder just take it and don’t care about the age of the concept or the excellent fame of Soulution.

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Click to expand...

So, indeed not so dissimilar views about Soulution. Music without toe-tapping is noise.

Regarding the Boulder, I am just auditioning it because I can. But in terms of amps I have already made up my mind and bought the Pass X250.8, a wonderful amp. Headroom, airy highs, sweetness, great bass, good grip of the LS.


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My choice would have been the 5 series in Soulution, they have the soul if there is indeed one to be found within the Soulution sound. It is indeed my choice of next upgrade to put a tube preamp in front of the 511, because you just gotta have some tubeness somewhere!
 
Interesting thought. I also understand the ‘11 gen is a bit different.

My quandrum with the Soulution was not the sound per se, it was the lack of liveliness in the music (for the lack of a better word).


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Pass XP-30 or ARC Ref 6. Both great matches.

What's the rest of your system?
 
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