Audiophiles - a bunch of hypocrites?

Mike brought up the Classe CP 800 as an example, and it's a great example. I've recommended it so many times that I think I won't anymore. Nobody gives it any respect, it's not expensive enough. It's not made in Switzerland. It's not a boutique brand. All it has done is beat the pants off of many, much more expensive preamps in my system.

Oh well, I guess I'll just sit back and enjoy what a true bargain it is while a bunch of people chase the Dragons tail. :D
 
MDP said:
Mike brought up the Classe CP 800 as an example, and it's a great example. I've recommended it so many times that I think I won't anymore. Nobody gives it any respect, it's not expensive enough. It's not made in Switzerland. It's not a boutique brand. All it has done is beat the pants off of many, much more expensive preamps in my system.

Oh well, I guess I'll just sit back and enjoy what a true bargain it is while a bunch of people chase the Dragons tail. :D
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Wish it did DSD :(
 
I shop at WalMart and appreciate what they do for my low income community. They lower the cost of living for poor people. As well, they single-handedly lower the nations rate of inflation and increase productivity. Impressive for a single company. They are under pressure from Amazon, as are many retailers.
 
Smile said:
I shop at WalMart and appreciate what they do for my low income community. They lower the cost of living for poor people. As well, they single-handedly lower the nations rate of inflation and increase productivity. Impressive for a single company. They are under pressure from Amazon, as are many retailers.
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WalMart's slogan should be "Only as cheap as we need to be." No two Walmarts in the same state sell products at the same price. The more rural you are and the less competition they have, the higher their prices are. The majority of people who work in WalMart stores are part time employees with no benefits and they don't earn a living wage.

Back to being an audiophile hypocrite...:)
 
Not to sound above the frey (and I'm sure I am guilty of some cost bias myself), but I've always thought a world class system could be assembled under $30k for EVERYTHING. And I'm not talking diminishing returns here. I'm talking full on world class. I've never believed that $30k preamps or $60k amps had anything to offer over $8k preamps and $8k amps. I'm not even sure if a $30k preamp is more likely to sound better than an $8k preamp. What I'm saying is I believe that sound quality and cost generally correlate in a linear fashion until you get above a certain threshold (say $10k) and then I think the correlation completely breaks down. I think it's even more true with speakers given how many behemoth speakers I've hear at shows that don't sound so great.
 
I buy what I want that I can afford. Whining about the rest of the world's purchasing habits is a huge waste of time and energy. In the pursuit of the things we want, we need to learn to be happy with what it is we have. There is no such thing as having it all no matter how much money you are worth. You can't buy true love, you can't buy health, and you can't buy eternal life. A man's true worth is measured in the hearts of those who will miss him when he is gone. The toys are irrelevant. We never actually own anything, rather we simply stand guard on our possessions until we are no longer of this Earth. It's at that moment we leave with what we came with.....nothing.

One of my favorite thoughts to dwell upon: If you want to feel rich, count the things you have that money can't buy.
 
jaxwired said:
Not to sound above the frey (and I'm sure I am guilty of some cost bias myself), but I've always thought a world class system could be assembled under $30k for EVERYTHING. And I'm not talking diminishing returns here. I'm talking full on world class. I've never believed that $30k preamps or $60k amps had anything to offer over $8k preamps and $8k amps. I'm not even sure if a $30k preamp is more likely to sound better than an $8k preamp. What I'm saying is I believe that sound quality and cost generally correlate in a linear fashion until you get above a certain threshold (say $10k) and then I think the correlation completely breaks down. I think it's even more true with speakers given how many behemoth speakers I've hear at shows that don't sound so great.
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Well said Tom.
 
Double-D said:
I buy what I want that I can afford. Whining about the rest of the world's purchasing habits is a huge waste of time and energy. In the pursuit of the things we want, we need to learn to be happy with what it is we have. There is no such thing as having it all no matter how much money you are worth. You can't by true love, you can't buy health, and you can't buy eternal life. A man's true worth is measured in the hearts of those who will miss him when he is gone. The toys are irrelevant. We never actually own anything, rather we simply stand guard on our possessions until we are no longer of this Earth. It's at this moment that we leave with what we came.....nothing.

One of my favorite thoughts to dwell upon: If you want to feel rich, count the things you have that money can't buy.
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If you have enough money, you can buy a damn good imitation of it! :lol: Seriously, there is a lot of truth to what you said and your words represent a conglomeration of 10-15 greeting cards or 20 different bumper stickers.
 
Mike said:
The Hegel H30 was another great product. Another giant killer. Ditto for the Devialet 400. Ditto for Harbeth and Living Voice speakers, which are at least 90% as good as the Strads - and certainly better in the midrange.
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Mike I really love this thread! This is a feeling I think we are all familiar with. I guess most of us spent more than a family car on audio gear (some even a few or a big fancy car) and we all realize that we do it for the last few percent of improvement like you mention in this example.
I am anxiously waiting to receive the Auralic Aries mini streamer which will cost 500 Euro. I will use it to be able to stream DSD next to my Linn that is not able to do that but if the sound quality comes close to the high expectations of the audio press I guess this device will come close to the Linn / Aurender / Lumin stuff that we are using. I have ordered a decent 250 Euro pus with it and that is it.
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If you combine this with a pair of Neumann KH 120A speakers for 100 - 1500 EUR a pair you will have a great sounding audio system. For a starter who takes a Qobuz or Tidal membership you are ready.

And this set will give you neutrality, detail, imaging and all the values we care for.

I am not sure if it is hypocrite but yes, we go a long way for the last bit of better sound. Let's face it: audiophiles are freaks!

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mep said:
If you have enough money, you can buy a damn good imitation of it! :lol: Seriously, there is a lot of truth to what you said and your words represent a conglomeration of 10-15 greeting cards or 20 different bumper stickers.
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Mark.......You don't really "buy" imitation love, you just rent it. Actually, you pay to get the "love" to leave. :P

Your right about the greeting card tone of my post. It didn't strike me that way while typing it but it does now. Maybe I can get a work-from-home job with Hallmark.
 
jaxwired said:
Not to sound above the frey (and I'm sure I am guilty of some cost bias myself), but I've always thought a world class system could be assembled under $30k for EVERYTHING. And I'm not talking diminishing returns here. I'm talking full on world class. I've never believed that $30k preamps or $60k amps had anything to offer over $8k preamps and $8k amps. I'm not even sure if a $30k preamp is more likely to sound better than an $8k preamp. What I'm saying is I believe that sound quality and cost generally correlate in a linear fashion until you get above a certain threshold (say $10k) and then I think the correlation completely breaks down. I think it's even more true with speakers given how many behemoth speakers I've hear at shows that don't sound so great.
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I don't think I agree with you. Not all of them, mind you, but as a rule, a $30k preamp WILL be better than an $8k amp. There are plenty of examples out there. Yes, it IS diminishing returns here, but to flat out say a $30k preamp is a sham, and everybody should be happy with an $8k preamp is kinda... well... just doesn't seem right.

To summarize what I think: there are products that are better than others. Some end up being more expensive (sometimes many times so), some don't. Unfortunately, in this industry, price does not always correlate with better products. I think the pursuit of those "less than crazy expensive" products is a valid one, but one must always have in mind that, no matter how good that "less than crazy expensive" product are, there will, likely, be better products out there in that category. If you lose track of that, you mind end up in a "make believe" world of the objectivists, where $1k amps are "good enough" as they "measure the same"...


alexandre
 
Double-D said:
George.......That is a Photoshopped picture of a German Wirehaired Pointer titled "Old Dog". Sums me up to a Tee. :coolbroguy:
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lol. Thats funny. I thought that beard looks extra, extra long.

Here is a normal DD:
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jaxwired said:
Not to sound above the frey (and I'm sure I am guilty of some cost bias myself), but I've always thought a world class system could be assembled under $30k for EVERYTHING. And I'm not talking diminishing returns here. I'm talking full on world class. I've never believed that $30k preamps or $60k amps had anything to offer over $8k preamps and $8k amps. I'm not even sure if a $30k preamp is more likely to sound better than an $8k preamp. What I'm saying is I believe that sound quality and cost generally correlate in a linear fashion until you get above a certain threshold (say $10k) and then I think the correlation completely breaks down. I think it's even more true with speakers given how many behemoth speakers I've hear at shows that don't sound so great.
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Jax, I hear you but you of course realized you are basically calling out a bunch of us as knuckleheads. I am fine with that cuz you have the right to your views but I emphatically disagree. That said, I am renowned for my knuckleheadedness.:lol:
 
mep said:
WalMart's slogan should be "Only as cheap as we need to be." No two Walmarts in the same state sell products at the same price. The more rural you are and the less competition they have, the higher their prices are. The majority of people who work in WalMart stores are part time employees with no benefits and they don't earn a living wage.

Back to being an audiophile hypocrite...:)
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When WM opened a Superstore in my town, supermarket prices fell 7 %.

Their employees make more than they did working for the Mom and Pops WM ran out of business and more than the supermarkets pay. I don't believe "Living Wage" is the right comparison, but rather alternative pay.

Faced with increased competition, the retailer is spending more to add staffing to speed checkout lines and ensure shelves are better stocked. In April, the company raised the minimum hourly wage paid to $9 and said it would boost pay to $10 for many employees by February.
What retailer pays more than this? Median HH income in my community is $33k.

WM is a mixed bag, depending on your perspective, but a net good for our country. They catch flack due to their size and visibility.
 
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