Audiophiles - a bunch of hypocrites?

Mike

Mike

Audioshark
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Nary a day goes by when we aren't bemoaning the outrageous cost of the latest DAC, Phonostage, Turntable, cartridge, pair of speakers, preamp, amp or set of cables. We can't believe the DAC of the month is now $90,000 when the previous DAC of the month was $60,000.

We bemoan the cost of the latest $50,000 preamp/DAC from Switzerland or the latest Field Coil speakers from Japan. We look at the latest $100,000 speaker cables and remember fondly the days when most expensive was "only" $60,000.

But despite all this, many turn their noses up at great products costing a lot less. Why?

I was reading the latest issue of TAS and it contained a terrific review of the Classe CP800 preamp (current MSRP is about $7000 with DAC and Phonostage and EQ and and and). The first review I ever read of the Classe CP800 preamp was over 3 years ago and I remember buying one even before that first review came out on the recommendation of a friend.

I said at the time that the CP800 was as good, if not better, than my McIntosh C1000C/P which I A:B for many weeks before selling the C1000C/P and keeping the CP800.

Although I don't have the CP800 anymore, I have no reservations in saying it was one of the best preamps I've ever owned - regardless of price and is exactly the type of product we should be putting on a pedestal in high end audio.

The Hegel H30 was another great product. Another giant killer. Ditto for the Devialet 400. Ditto for Harbeth and Living Voice speakers, which are at least 90% as good as the Strads - and certainly better in the midrange. Ditto for Maggies. Ditto for KEF LS50's. Ditto for First Watt. Ditto for the Vinnie Rossie Lio and pretty much anything by Dan Wright. Ditto for the Avantgarde Zero's. Ditto for so many more reasonably priced products out there which are true giant killers.

I was speaking with another dealer friend yesterday who sells YG. He said to me his biggest challenge is price. I thought he was about to complain they cost too much, but he explained, "Wilson owners, Magico owners, frankly, owners of many very expensive speakers come into my store to hear the YG's, they will even tell me how great they sound, some even saying they sound better than their speakers at home, but once they learn the price, they leave saying 'it can't be as good as my XLF's or Q7's because my speakers cost more'." Huh?

Yes, yes, I often buy some crazy expensive stuff myself, but I also LOVE finding a great product that costs a hell of a lot less and at the trade shows, that's what I'm hunting for - the hidden gems.

When surrounded by $200,000 speakers and $200,000 amp/preamp combos, how hard is it to accept that the $3000 Vinnie Rossi Lio with the $7000 Harbeth's was one of the best sounds at the last show?

My point is that there are great products out on the market which don't have to cost as much as a car or even a small home and just because something doesn't cost as much as something else, doesn't necessarily mean it isn't as good - or in many cases, better.
 
I don't have enough money to qualify as a hypocrite!
 
Good post!

Not related to audio, but I have friends that won't shop at Kmart or Walmart but will buy the exact same item from Macy's for more money so they can say they bought it at Macy's and don't have to admit they shop at walmart.

Some people just have a mindset that if it is more expensive, it must be better and that is exactly what the $200,000 MFG is hoping for. I get there is R&D and testing and lots of unrelated to the actual product costs, but there is really no way that there is $200,000 worth of parts and labor in any given product. You are paying for the R&D over and over and every customer does the same.

Does any MFG ever lower the price of a product once they recoup the R&D and actual MFG costs? I don't know of any.

There are so many reasonably priced components out there that even the above average Joe could not help but to admit sounds as good or even better sometimes than it's 20x more expensive competition.

It's a shame Eric did not go further with his Low Cost Show Report and that others don't demand the cost of products be in line with actual worth. Too many people actually do have that kind of money to blow without blinking, but not me. I read all these posts about all the gear I will never be able to afford only to weed out the ones I could, like the Hegal and many more great pcs of gear talked about here.

For some, it's the entry cost of the Elite Club of those with more money than common sense sometimes, and I don't say that to offend anyone here, but at no time does a $200,000 pair of speakers ever sound 200x better than a $2000 pair, but if you have the money to blow, go for it. I probably would also if my financial situation was in line with that mindset.

I usually only buy new gear when something dies completely so far and few between. But, at least I will know what to buy because of everyone here :)
Every time I get the itch, I listen to what I have and really think it sounds great. Could it be better? Yes, but at what price to performance ratio?
 
Is it any wonder that young people are less interested in audio quality given the high cost of admission?
 
Well said Mike. When I stared to get more serious about audio I went for gear that was a lot of bang for the buck due to paying off college and med school student loans and putting 2 kids though college. I started with Maggie's and Van Alstine tube gear (I live 3 minutes from Frank VA and 20 minutes from the Maggie Factory) as well as some budget Monitor Audio S1 and PSB B6 speakers. These systems sounded great, better than some systems that cost 2-3 times as much. And currently there is a lot of gear at reasonable prices that sounds great.
 
It's east to throw money around, if you have it, but it takes real work to find those pieces of gear that play WAY above their price point.

But it's also the most rewarding when you find that piece.
 
I won't shop at Walmart because I hate the place and they attract the famously weird and deranged. Local police departments hate Walmart because they suck up all their resources arresting the great people who shop there. One of the cities in Indiana just declared the local Walmart a public nuisance. You guys probably saw the video of the two women beating each other in Walmart with one of the woman's children joining in the fun. That's the Walmart that was declared a public nuisance. Last week at the same Walmart a guy was being detained for shoplifting and he pulled out a gun and ran out of the store to a Chinese restaurant run by Vietnamese. He went into the bathroom and blew his brains out.
 
I'd love to chime-in; but it would take me pages and pages...to even try and scratch the surface, of what I believe the audiophile mind to be. :wacko:
 
mep said:
I won't shop at Walmart because I hate the place and they attract the famously weird and deranged. Local police departments hate Walmart because they suck up all their resources arresting the great people who shop there. One of the cities in Indiana just declared the local Walmart a public nuisance. You guys probably saw the video of the two women beating each other in Walmart with one of the woman's children joining in the fun. That's the Walmart that was declared a public nuisance. Last week at the same Walmart a guy was being detained for shoplifting and he pulled out a gun and ran out of the store to a Chinese restaurant run by Vietnamese. He went into the bathroom and blew his brains out.
Click to expand...

I only used Walmart-Kmart vs Macy's for examples. I personally try to stay away from them myself, but will not pay double for the same product just for bragging rights of where I bought it (which just says I paid too much)
 
Well put, Mike.

As dealers, I think it's our duty to keep at it, and find the products that not only sound good (and are reliable, from reputable companies/individuals), but are also priced correctly, and provide good bang for the audiophile's buck.

Another product line that I've seen a little prejudice towards is the iFi stuff. The iPhono is unbelievable, dead quiet, dynamic phono stage for $400 and change. But comes in a little dinky box, so people won't take it seriously, or think it's just for headphone listening...
 
Mike,

I hear what you're saying, but the behaviors that you just riffed about aren't exclusive to audiophiles. They are traits that are reflected in just about every aspect of human life. There's this common perception that the more difficult something is to obtain, the better that something must be. As a result, many people will be highly skeptical of the quality of something that is relatively common/easy to obtain.

In a way, it almost doesn't matter how true or untrue that notion may be. As the idiom goes, "perception is reality".
 
asiufy said:
Well put, Mike.

As dealers, I think it's our duty to keep at it, and find the products that not only sound good (and are reliable, from reputable companies/individuals), but are also priced correctly, and provide good bang for the audiophile's buck.

Another product line that I've seen a little prejudice towards is the iFi stuff. The iPhono is unbelievable, dead quiet, dynamic phono stage for $400 and change. But comes in a little dinky box, so people won't take it seriously, or think it's just for headphone listening...
Click to expand...

Interesting observation. On the flip side, and I can't remember which thread, but someone posted the internals of a mega buck DAC that was nothing more than a larger fancy box with almost nothing inside. I guess size does matter with men :)
 
Well...I will say this: it is biased, prejudiced, and hypocritical; but it's not always about money.

A lot of it, is what I like to call the cred or cache factor. You might have an audiophile, favor a $500 piece...over a $5,000 piece; but it's because the $500 piece is an audiophile darling. When he tells people he has it, they know of it and approve.

Or sure; I'll get lit-up, because there will be those who swear...all that matters is sound. Of course we say that; and of course it's most important. But those of us who are honest with themselves...are willing to admit; there is conscious and unconscious factors at play.

I just started saying I like this one...better than that one; could be for a number of reasons...but of course one of them being, I at least think it sounds "better" (whatever that mean sometimes).

$200 Regen...in front of your $10,000 DAC?
 
Shadowfax said:
What about thousands of dollars in power conditioning, after market power cables, $300 outlets ALL going back thru a $10 breaker?
Click to expand...

What about the change in signal (capacitance) at the speaker terminal stage? Ha!
 
I am very shocked that some company hasn't gone after the $10 breakers and upgraded them to cryro super gripping ones for $250.



Shadowfax said:
What about thousands of dollars in power conditioning, after market power cables, $300 outlets ALL going back thru a $10 breaker?
Click to expand...
 
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