Audio Research REF6 vs. REF10 Preamp

Alpinist

Alpinist

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I am in the market for a new preamp and I was wondering if anyone has done a direct comparison of the ARC REF6 and REF10? I'm interested in the differences both quantitatively and qualitatively. My current system is an Esoteric K-01X digital player, Vandersteen M7-HPA mono amps (on order) and Vandersteen 7 MKII speakers.

Thanks!
 
I would guess Valin from TAS will comment on the differences when he reviews the Ref 6. If I was a betting man, I would bet ARC will update the Ref 10 next year. Valin is a big fan of ARC, so I would expect him to be reviewing it soon. I saw TAS is reviewing the Ref 250SE in the next issue. I think the Ref 6 hasn't been out long enough though for a review. Looks like Fremer is reviewing the Ref 6 and Ref Phono 3 in the future, but I don't think he has a Ref 10 on hand like Valin.
 
From what I've read on the internet the REF6 is closer to the REF10 than it is to the REF5.

I haven't done a direct comparison between the two but when I heard the REF6 the first time, I thought to myself that it was closer to the REF10, but that was going from memory.
 
I wish I had a Ref 10 on hand for the comparison. I did write my preliminary thoughts about the Ref 6 and how it compared to the Ref 5SE that I owned for PFO and you can find that here: http://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/audio-research-ref-6-line-stage/

The common 'wisdom' on the audio street is that the Ref 6 is closer in sound to the Ref 10 than it is to the Ref 5SE. If you read my preliminary thoughts on PFO, you will see that I think there is a big gap between the Ref 6 and the Ref 5SE with the Ref 6 moving ahead by several large steps. My initial reaction to putting the Ref 6 in my system was shocking in that had I not known better, I could have swore I changed out power amps instead of a preamp. The Ref 6 gives no ground to the Ref 5SE. The Ref 6 is both more intelligent and better sounding from bottom to top in comparison to the Ref 5SE. If anyone tells you otherwise, I would cast a wary eye on both their system and room because the differences between the two aren't subtle.
 
Is hard to compare the 6 with the 10 because is a unit with two separate power supplies and output stages.

I had them both and the 10
Is a different monster.
Soundstage much bigger and less noise floor with very detail on instruments decay

But I'm also agreed that is very close to the REF10 sound

There is no REF10se for next year, is too early, I think.


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highEndguy said:
Is hard to compare the 6 with the 10 because is a unit with two separate power supplies and output stages.

I had them both and the 10
Is a different monster.
Soundstage much bigger and less noise floor with very detail on instruments decay

But I'm also agreed that is very close to the REF10 sound

There is no REF10se for next year, is too early, I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You may well be one of the few people that have had a chance to hear both of them in your system. Both the Ref 6 and Ref 10 use 6 tubes in the line stage compared to 4 in the Ref 5SE. The Ref 10 has an outboard power supply and of course the Ref 6 does not. The Ref 6 does use two separate power supply transformers.
 
mep said:
You may well be one of the few people that have had a chance to hear both of them in your system. Both the Ref 6 and Ref 10 use 6 tubes in the line stage compared to 4 in the Ref 5SE. The Ref 10 has an outboard power supply and of course the Ref 6 does not. The Ref 6 does use two separate power supply transformers.
Click to expand...

You are correct about the two PS from the 6 but the 10 have one for each channel



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highEndguy said:
You are correct about the two PS from the 6 but the 10 have one for each channel



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Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct. The Ref 10 has a monster power supply with two transformers per channel because it is truly dual mono as well as two 6550s and two 6H30 tubes in the power supply (one 6550 and one 6H30 for each channel). Even if the line stage circuit was identical between the Ref 10 and the Ref 6, the much bigger dual mono power supply in the Ref 10 should make a big difference in the sound. That is a very expensive power supply.

I stand corrected, there are four tubes per channel in the line stage of the Ref 10. This is a much different beast than the Ref 6 as well as it should be with an MSRP of $30,000 for the Ref 10 vice $14,000 for the Ref 6.
 
I had a long conversation with Dave Gordon of ARC and the REF11 is scheduled for the end of 2017. He said the new circuitry in the REF6 was an attempt to bring the performance closer to the REF10, in which they succeeded. However, according to Dave, there is no new technology in the REF6 that the REF10 doesn't already include or even better. REF6 has an upgraded power supply, REF10 has dual mono power supply. REF6 increased to 6 output tubes, REF10 utilizes 8 output tubes. But Dave feels there is not another preamp at the REF6's price point that can touch its performance. Based on my listening experience with it, I'm inclined to agree. It would be cool to have both the REF6 and REF10 in the same room. Maybe I should take a trip to ARC in Minnesota. :)

Ken
 
Hi Ken,

Any thoughts if the Ref 10 will be updated to an SE version or if a new model will be released altogether?
 
I had the opportunity to do a direct comparison of the ARC REF6 and REF10 preamps in a system that included an ARC REF CD9 player, ARC REF 150SE amp, Wilson Alexia speakers and Nordost loom of cables.

The REF10 preamp had a smoother and more refined midrange and treble, lower reaching and more robust deep bass, and a soundstage with substantially more width and depth than the REF6. However, what I wasn't expecting was the REF6 preamp's very different sonic signature. The soundstage was much more forward than the REF10, the attacks were more abrupt and the mid-bass was punchier, creating a very vibrant and more aggressive sound. In some ways this provided more immediacy to the music but at the expense of some edginess compared to the REF10's silky smooth midrange and treble. The best single word I can use to describe the REF6's sound is "ballsy", while the best single word to describe the REF10's sound is "refined".

The presentation of the REF10 and REF6 were different enough that I would say it comes down to a matter of personal taste as to which one a listener would prefer. While I really liked and could be happy with the overall sound of the REF6, being a lover of jazz vocals, jazz piano, jazz guitar and small jazz combos, the REF10's sound really did it for me.

Best,
Ken
 
The REF10 is really fine but at less than half the price, the REF6 is amazing too. I could see those who primarily listen to Rock and Roll possibly preferring it due to its more aggressive sonic signature.

There are currently some misconceptions out there that the REF6 has some technological advancements over the REF10. After researching it, I found this to be untrue. The REF6 technology is purely trickle down from the REF10. However, the REF6 does have material advancements over the REF5SE. To break it down, the REF5SE uses, per channel, one 6H30 tube for its input stage and one 6H30 tube for its output stage. The REF6 uses, per channel, two 6H30 tubes for its input stage and one 6H30 tube for its output stage. The REF 10 uses, per channel, two 6H30 tubes for its input stage and two 6H30 tubes for its output stage. Yes, the REF10 is essentially two REF5SE's, but the REF10SE or REF11, whenever it comes out, will not be two REF6's. This is because the REF6 bridges the gap between the REF5SE and REF10. The REF6 has improved coupling capacitors and power supply over the REF5SE but the REF10 already has these improvements or better. From my discussions with ARC, the REF10SE or REF11 is a long way off because they are still improving other components in their line from trickle down technology based on the REF10's design.

Best,
Ken
 
joeinid said:
I'm actually considering the Ref 10 now. Based on all the recent comparisons and descriptions, I have a feeling the Ref 10 is more my speed.
Click to expand...

Hi Joe,

Instead of the Ayre KX-R Twenty?

Ken
 
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