Atma-Shephere Class D Review

[Mr Peabody]

I got the point. You are needlessly upset some guy wrote a review that didn't meet your standards and approval.

What a waste of energy being that upset over something so meaningless.

You are so petty trying to defend this guy and act like you are above everyone else. You are little more than a troll. The DCS review was an honest review. The write-up on the Atma-Sphere amps was not a review. This was not a test of whether anyone wants an honest review. It was the poorest review of any kind I've ever read. For you to wave it around like it's "an honest review" makes you as slimy as he is.

I really cared less why Mike posted the link. It's a forum and the link is note worthy I suppose. It's hilarious though how you drag his name into your posts as to hide behind him or have him as backup like you are in the 3rd grade on the playground. I don't fault Mike for posting the link but I do if he defends the write-up as valid. Not valid because the writer didn't like the amps, not valid because it was not a review by no stretch of the imagination good or bad.

I want to go on the record as wanting honest reviews but those reviews have to be legit. Meaning it should contain more than just a simple slam, it should contain all the elements one normally reads in reviews. You are so transparently disingenuous.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

You are so petty trying to defend this guy and act like you are above everyone else. You are little more than a troll. The DCS review was an honest review. The write-up on the Atma-Sphere amps was not a review. This was not a test of whether anyone wants an honest review. It was the poorest review of any kind I've ever read. For you to wave it around like it's "an honest review" makes you as slimy as he is.

I really cared less why Mike posted the link. It's a forum and the link is note worthy I suppose. It's hilarious though how you drag his name into your posts as to hide behind him or have him as backup like you are in the 3rd grade on the playground. I don't fault Mike for posting the link but I do if he defends the write-up as valid. Not valid because the writer didn't like the amps, not valid because it was not a review by no stretch of the imagination good or bad.

I want to go on the record as wanting honest reviews but those reviews have to be legit. Meaning it should contain more than just a simple slam, it should contain all the elements one normally reads in reviews. You are so transparently disingenuous.

Well now I know you are REALLY triggered by Mike's post.

If having common sense and keeping a online review in proportion is trolling and being high and mighty - guilty as charged.

I'm just shaking my head and now actually literally laughing you guys have wasted this much energy and been so personally offended by some guy sharing his opinion on an amp you don't even own.

People need to get a grip.

Mike's little experiment was a wild success - it shows the levels of lunacy among supposed audiophiles.

Well played Mike. Well played. I didn't think anyone would be this easy to trigger. I gave them too much credit for sure..

Have fun being so unhappy over this silly topic. I'm going to go spend time on having a life and focusing on something of real value.

 

[Mike]

Can we honestly expect a negative review from a reputable/established website/publication or can we only get those from the unknowns and are those unknowns using negativity as a tool to grow their name?

Case in point:

Børresen X3 Floorstanding Speaker Review

Børresen X3 Floorstanding

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

And

 

[Porsche]

Erin seems to be a pretty straight shooter IMO

 

[Hear Here]

It's not a 'proper' review to you because you didn't like the fact he didn't like a Class D amp and he didn't want to waste his time on a crappy amp.

Where is the rule book on what you feel is a "proper" review where suddenly you feel his personal opinion meets your imaginary standards?

See Mr P's rational reply to your ranting. I'll not continue talking with you if you think that this "review" deserves consideration by any genuinely interested party - it doesn't.

You are so petty trying to defend this guy and act like you are above everyone else. You are little more than a troll. The DCS review was an honest review. The write-up on the Atma-Sphere amps was not a review. This was not a test of whether anyone wants an honest review. It was the poorest review of any kind I've ever read. For you to wave it around like it's "an honest review" makes you as slimy as he is.

Thanks - There are plenty of other reviews of this particular amp that are more impartial and are generally positive about its performance. Even the best of amps may sound sub-par if not carefully matched with other gear in the system, but any reviewer worth being so called needs to do the job properly. If as you suggest, he just doesn't like the amp, he should keep his opinions to himself, unless he's prepared to conduct a proper review and state pros as well as cons.

 

[Hear Here]

Can we honestly expect a negative review from a reputable/established website/publication or can we only get those from the unknowns and are those unknowns using negativity as a tool to grow their name?

Yes we can get negative reviews from reputable and reliable sources, but we often need to "read between the lines" to appreciate these negative points. The Measurements (if taken) and Conclusions will often give away any dirty secrets about a unit's less than perfect performance.

Unknown reviewers should surely remain unknown (and unread and unpublished), unless they are prepared to do the job they claim to be doing thoroughly and honestly. The trouble often is that these unknowns have no real technical experience, lack the resources (good listening room, plenty of suitable systems to use with the test item, measuring equipment, etc) and even it seems, a pair of ears good enough to judge these things.

 

[mep]

Can we honestly expect a negative review from a reputable/established website/publication or can we only get those from the unknowns and are those unknowns using negativity as a tool to grow their name?

Case in point:

Børresen X3 Floorstanding Speaker Review

Børresen X3 Floorstanding

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

And

I just read that review. Over 90% was measurements with pictures. I don't know what qualifications Erin has to take measurements. I checked his "about me" on his web page and didn't see anything about his tech training or if he is an electrical engineer.

He had very little to say about the sound of the speaker except that a pair of 4" woofers don't have much bass below 80 Hz. There shouldn't be a surprise there IMO.

I was also surprised that he considered $11k a serious investment for audiophiles to make on a pair of speakers. It's also a pet peeve of mine when people refer to audio purchases as an "investment."
Purchasing audio gear is an expenditure, not an investment. An investment infers there will be an ROI down the road that is greater than the purchase price. The only investment in purchasing audio gear is an investment in the happiness your stereo system gives you.

 

[Mikado463]

mep, investments come in many flavors and your last sentence bears that out !

As for your surprise that 11k could be considered a serious 'investment', is that arrogance showing through or ignorance ?

 

[Mr Peabody]

Can we honestly expect a negative review from a reputable/established website/publication or can we only get those from the unknowns and are those unknowns using negativity as a tool to grow their name?

Case in point:

Børresen X3 Floorstanding Speaker Review

Børresen X3 Floorstanding

www.erinsaudiocorner.com

And

I've never heard of Erin nor have I heard Borresen. I've seen people seem to like them. I personally would not consider them, I don't believe you can get good bass from a 4" driver no matter how many. I've had it explained to me by someone who builds line array but I'm still not convinced. Seems rather Bose like. That's from a guy with 15" drivers

With that being said to me Aaron did an excellent review. I watched the video, that's where he said he put his thoughts, description. He described the speaker in detail, gave some specs, weight, sensitivity, etc. He described the placement process and what happened along the way. he went into what he heard and took measures to substantiate what he heard which I consider going beyond. I'm talking about checking others impressions, contacting the manufacturer and comparing to other speakers. Based on this review I would read others of his at this point. I could go on but I think you get the point.

Regarding content and approach there is no comparison between the write-up in post #1 and Aaron's review. I even took away points because Aaron is in Alabama, LOL

 

[mep]

mep, investments come in many flavors and your last sentence bears that out !

As for your surprise that 11k could be considered a serious 'investment', is that arrogance showing through or ignorance ?

It's neither. The price of gear is relevant to the purchaser. How many hi-end speakers cost over $100k? How many over $500k? What's the average cost of members' systems on Audio Shark?

So yes, I understand $11k could be a serious outlay of cash or credit for some/many audiophiles, but reviewers of high-end audio gear calling $11k for a pair of speakers a serious investment does surprise me since they should know about what's out there and what it costs. There are speaker cables out there that cost many multiples of $11k.

 

[nicoff]

….

The trouble often is that these unknowns have no real technical experience, lack the resources (good listening room, plenty of suitable systems to use with the test item, measuring equipment, etc) and even it seems, a pair of ears good enough to judge these things.

What you refer to can actually apply to many well-known reviewers as well.

 

[Mike]

I even took away points because Aaron is in Alabama, LOL

That’s funny!

 

[Mike]

Yes we can get negative reviews from reputable and reliable sources, but we often need to "read between the lines" to appreciate these negative points. The Measurements (if taken) and Conclusions will often give away any dirty secrets about a unit's less than perfect performance.

Unknown reviewers should surely remain unknown (and unread and unpublished), unless they are prepared to do the job they claim to be doing thoroughly and honestly. The trouble often is that these unknowns have no real technical experience, lack the resources (good listening room, plenty of suitable systems to use with the test item, measuring equipment, etc) and even it seems, a pair of ears good enough to judge these things.

The “read between the lines” is something I’ve discussed extensively with manufacturers and one of the reasons many are hesitant to send in a particular product. They said people are constantly looking for the “little nuggets.” What they mean is that a review can be glowing except for one line which may read: “this amp did everything perfect, except the B amp had slightly clearer strings on the third movement of Mahler’s 3rd symphony.” They said people will focus on that “nugget” and not the rest of the review! “See, the B amp is better! This amp isn’t good at resolving strings! See!”

 

[Mikado463]

It's neither. The price of gear is relevant to the purchaser. How many hi-end speakers cost over $100k? How many over $500k? What's the average cost of members' systems on Audio Shark?

So yes, I understand $11k could be a serious outlay of cash or credit for some/many audiophiles, but reviewers of high-end audio gear calling $11k for a pair of speakers a serious investment does surprise me since they should know about what's out there and what it costs. There are speaker cables out there that cost many multiples of $11k.

Point taken and I understand but spending 'multiples of 11k on wire' ...............never !

 

[a.wayne]

I just read that review. Over 90% was measurements with pictures. I don't know what qualifications Erin has to take measurements. I checked his "about me" on his web page and didn't see anything about his tech training or if he is an electrical engineer.

He had very little to say about the sound of the speaker except that a pair of 4" woofers don't have much bass below 80 Hz. There shouldn't be a surprise there IMO.

I was also surprised that he considered $11k a serious investment for audiophiles to make on a pair of speakers. It's also a pet peeve of mine when people refer to audio purchases as an "investment."
Purchasing audio gear is an expenditure, not an investment. An investment infers there will be an ROI down the road that is greater than the purchase price. The only investment in purchasing audio gear is an investment in the happiness your stereo system gives you.

measurements with pictures easily usurp talky talky opinionated bought the reviewer a steak dinner review ..!

Those are rarely ever negative

 

[Feanor]

measurements with pictures easily usurp talky talky opinionated bought the reviewer a steak dinner review ..!

Those are rarely ever negative

Indeed. I've been involved with home audio for 50 year and have spent most of that reading subjective reviews. More recently I've been exposed to reviewers -- in addition to John Atkinson -- who take measurements and who may or may not report on their subjective listening impressions.

Among the latter I give Erin credit for honest, forthright reviews with measurements and subjective comments in his videos if not always in his written conclusions. Among the subjective reviewers I include, e.g. Steve Guttenberg whom I consider basically a fraud.

As between those who take comprehensive measurements but make few or no subjective comments, and OTOH those who deliver only subjective comments, I tend to prefer the former to the latter nowadays -- and that doesn't matter how "well known" and venerated the latter may be.

 

[Mike]

Indeed. I've been involved with home audio for 50 year and have spent most of that reading subjective reviews. More recently I've been exposed to reviewers -- in addition to John Atkinson -- who take measurements and who may or may not report on their subjective listening impressions.

Among the latter I give Erin credit for honest, forthright reviews with measurements and subjective comments in his videos if not always in his written conclusions. Among the subjective reviewers I include, e.g. Steve Guttenberg whom I consider basically a fraud.

As between those who take comprehensive measurements but make few or no subjective comments, and OTOH those who deliver only subjective comments, I tend to prefer the former to the latter nowadays -- and that doesn't matter how "well known" and venerated the latter may be.

Great response. I’m also highly highly suspect of subscriber counts since those can easily be bought.

 

[atmasphere]

Atma-Sphere Class D Amplifiers – MINI-REVIEW – 10 Audio

10audio.com

This review is dishonest in a variety of ways.

We tell customers the class D amps take about 450 hours to break in. For this reason, we have a longer audition time than we do for our tube amps. If Jerry had gotten these amps from us he would have known that.

A look at the actual legit reviews (all of which are linked from our website) show a distinct difference in findings, to put it mildly.

We did not provide a sample, and wouldn't as Jerry knows, because he has caused bad blood in the past (actually about 25 years ago). In that incident, Jerry (the sole person at 10Audio) changed two good reviews of our gear to bad ones after the fact, after we had to confront him regarding a third review of a poorly built kit version of our M-60s he bought used that he reviewed as factory-built.

That amp was a rat's nest inside; probably part of the reason they were on the used market. He sold them to a person in NYC, who sent them to us for repair. They really weren't working right!

When you see bad reviews, there's a pretty good chance there's something that isn't being said. This case is a good example; Jerry has an axe to grind with us and took the opportunity. But it can be caused by shipping damaged equipment reviewed as functional. Or an inability to follow instructions. We had one case where the bad review was done because we didn't buy an ad contract.

But in this case its simply a person that is unable to own his mistakes and tried to cover it up.

 

[Bones13]

We have freedom of speech here, and I can't fault anyone's opinion. I don't have the knowledge of any of the behind the scenes machinations. Nor do I want to. I happen to differ in my opinion of these amps, and am free to talk about them in my own terms, and from my own experiences.

In general, class D amps are the growing trend across the spectrum - low to uber high $. Lightweight, energy efficient, and with SQ growing by leaps and bounds as we go along.

I do love my Atma-Sphere "Class D" amps. I find them subjectively pleasant to listen to. Neither overly clinical, nor warm and smoozy, but "just right" for me. I appreciate Ralph's voicing efforts here.

Objectively, they are small, and only 14 pounds, each monoblock, despite having well designed linear power supplies. They have RCA and Balanced Inputs, and at 100watts, power my 8ohm, 95db, speakers well enough, that I use in line signal attenuators with my current Pre-Amp. (I will have the gain reduced in my pre-amp by the manufacturer if I end up keeping my pre-amp after my coming move) And after all my DIY Firstwatt amps, the power switch is on the front!

 

[mep]

We have freedom of speech here, and I can't fault anyone's opinion. I don't have the knowledge of any of the behind the scenes machinations. Nor do I want to. I happen to differ in my opinion of these amps, and am free to talk about them in my own terms, and from my own experiences.

In general, class D amps are the growing trend across the spectrum - low to uber high $. Lightweight, energy efficient, and with SQ growing by leaps and bounds as we go along.

I do love my Atma-Sphere "Class D" amps. I find them subjectively pleasant to listen to. Neither overly clinical, nor warm and smoozy, but "just right" for me. I appreciate Ralph's voicing efforts here.

Objectively, they are small, and only 14 pounds, each monoblock, despite having well designed linear power supplies. They have RCA and Balanced Inputs, and at 100watts, power my 8ohm, 95db, speakers well enough, that I use in line signal attenuators with my current Pre-Amp. (I will have the gain reduced in my pre-amp by the manufacturer if I end up keeping my pre-amp after my coming move) And after all my DIY Firstwatt amps, the power switch is on the front!

You need to check up on your linear power supply claim.