Are you a snob?

I liked to think that I have standards.

To me the term “snob” is used for people who are judgmental. It is used for people who decide not just what is good enough for them, but what should be good enough for others. More than that, if something doesn’t measure up to their imaginary or self-imposed standards, it’s bad.

We started losing “standards” in the 1960s when everyone’s opinion was considered equal. Well, it’s not. I know nothing about wine and wine tasting, but an experienced wine taster could tell the differences between wines. Now I may still like the “cheap” wine but there are people out there who are not snobs, who can tell the difference in quality.

A silly distinction: My girlfriend can tell the quality of sheets by looking and feeling and I can’t tell one from another.

And while we are all entitled to our own opinions, we are NOT entitled to our own facts. I see people on TV, without any educational background or credentials, deny the facts about climate change, evolution and even history and consider themselves “experts” and their opinions count as much as a dedicated scientist or historian.

But there are places where I do recognize quality and seek it out, be it restaurants, cars or audio equipment.

I love my music and movie center, but I realize most people will not, or cannot, put in the time, energy and money to build such a system. I am always eager to help friends and give advice when they are building their system. But I NEVER put down a system that someone enjoys, even if I didn’t help build it. My first question to almost everyone is, “Do you like it?” if the answer is yes, then it’s good enough for me.
 
Lefisc said:
I liked to think that I have standards.

To me the term “snob” is used for people who are judgmental. It is used for people who decide not just what is good enough for them, but what should be good enough for others. More than that, if something doesn’t measure up to their imaginary or self-imposed standards, it’s bad.

We started losing “standards” in the 1960s when everyone’s opinion was considered equal. Well, it’s not. I know nothing about wine and wine tasting, but an experienced wine taster could tell the differences between wines. Now I may still like the “cheap” wine but there are people out there who are not snobs, who can tell the difference in quality.

A silly distinction: My girlfriend can tell the quality of sheets by looking and feeling and I can’t tell one from another.

And while we are all entitled to our own opinions, we are NOT entitled to our own facts. I see people on TV, without any educational background or credentials, deny the facts about climate change, evolution and even history and consider themselves “experts” and their opinions count as much as a dedicated scientist or historian.

But there are places where I do recognize quality and seek it out, be it restaurants, cars or audio equipment.

I love my music and movie center, but I realize most people will not, or cannot, put in the time, energy and money to build such a system. I am always eager to help friends and give advice when they are building their system. But I NEVER put down a system that someone enjoys, even if I didn’t help build it. My first question to almost everyone is, “Do you like it?” if the answer is yes, then it’s good enough for me.
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Really well put Lefisc. *thumbs up*
I agree totally.
 
Yes, I would consider myself a Music Snob. I tend to look down on people with parochial tastes. I don't mean to but it happens.
 
NorthStar said:
Bob (thread starter), thank you! ...The simple question you asked made me think and reflect on my own inner self.
And if it did that with me I'm sure it did too with many more people.
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Thanks Bob. I first read this question on a progressive music forum I frequent (www.progressiveears.org). I guess progressive rock/jazz lovers are often though of as snobs, because pop-rock is just too simple to play or listen to, for some. I thought it would apply equally to audiophiles, or may other groups that appreciate quality and/or spend big $$$ on "luxury" goods.

But like any other hobby, others who have similar interests will easily appreciate the obsession and not frown too much at the $ spent. Those outside the hobby, even if they spend $ on another interest, often don't get it. The mantra of any obsessive hobbiest should be to show enthusiasm (easy to do), help educate or at least provide an opportunity to help another experience the hobby (also fairly easy), and accept that others just don't get it the way you do (a bit harder), and accept that with humility (not so easy).
 
BobM said:
Thanks Bob. I first read this question on a progressive music forum I frequent (www.progressiveears.org). I guess progressive rock/jazz lovers are often though of as snobs, because pop-rock is just too simple to play or listen to, for some. I thought it would apply equally to audiophiles, or may other groups that appreciate quality and/or spend big $$$ on "luxury" goods.

But like any other hobby, others who have similar interests will easily appreciate the obsession and not frown too much at the $ spent. Those outside the hobby, even if they spend $ on another interest, often don't get it. The mantra of any obsessive hobbiest should be to show enthusiasm (easy to do), help educate or at least provide an opportunity to help another experience the hobby (also fairly easy), and accept that others just don't get it the way you do (a bit harder), and accept that with humility (not so easy).
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Some good thoughts in there Bob. ...And thanks for the link.
 
We all have our own opinions, we all have our own preferences and we all have our own standards. That does not make us a snob. And yes, most of us have our own obsessions.

I like chocolate, you may like vanilla. But I like Haagan Das Chocolate Chocolate Chip the most. So when I go shopping I skip over Breyers and Carvel and get what I like the most.

Of course, with friends, I’ll have another brand and won’t mention my preference. But I will pass on the chocolate “ice cream like” stuff that is put out there that isn’t dairy, but totally artificial. Does looking for the best make you a snob? Does rejecting the worst? Not unless you are obnoxious about it. Keeping standards is important. I want ice cream made out of cream.

And then I do try to educate my friends on why I made my choice. But I have given up, on the most part, educating people about anything. So I disagree with the mantra that you “should be to show enthusiasm (easy to do), help educate or at least provide an opportunity to help another experience the hobby.” You see, today, every opinion is as valid as the next. That mantra is a noble intent, but I don’t think workable anymore.

But if you have any standards, and Bob does, you look for quality and that, of course, it usually, not always costs more. HD chocolate costs more than Breyers.
 
You are absolutely right Barry; we like what we can afford to like, and what another can afford is his own prerogative.
Poor and/or rich people can be snobs as equally, or not. It's not the material, it's how you evaluate it in comparison to others, and elevate or diminish yourself in that comparison on a social level.
More money doesn't mean necessarily better all the time, but it does most of the time.

But better, what does it truly mean in the hands of the richest people on Earth? ...A whole bunch of problems, that's what!
Not because the rich person is bad, but because some of that rich person's best friends are wrongly perceiving his success as a liability to themselves! Brief, making a comparison from an unequal footing with someone else instead of your own oneself. ...That cyclist guy, ...Armstrong; he was pretty good at what he was doing, but at the end he told the truth!

Some rich people are very nice people, and they respect everyone else as their equal. Some very poor people have the same great quality. ...And we have everything else between; pick your ticket.

* ...And I'm fighting my own demons, with acharnement.
 
Lefisc said:
We all have our own opinions, we all have our own preferences and we all have our own standards. That does not make us a snob. And yes, most of us have our own obsessions.

I like chocolate, you may like vanilla. But I like Haagan Das Chocolate Chocolate Chip the most. So when I go shopping I skip over Breyers and Carvel and get what I like the most.

Of course, with friends, I’ll have another brand and won’t mention my preference. But I will pass on the chocolate “ice cream like” stuff that is put out there that isn’t dairy, but totally artificial. Does looking for the best make you a snob? Does rejecting the worst? Not unless you are obnoxious about it. Keeping standards is important. I want ice cream made out of cream.

And then I do try to educate my friends on why I made my choice. But I have given up, on the most part, educating people about anything. So I disagree with the mantra that you “should be to show enthusiasm (easy to do), help educate or at least provide an opportunity to help another experience the hobby.” You see, today, every opinion is as valid as the next. That mantra is a noble intent, but I don’t think workable anymore.

But if you have any standards, and Bob does, you look for quality and that, of course, it usually, not always costs more. HD chocolate costs more than Breyers.
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Ah, but in keeping with your ice cream metaphor, what about those who are lactose intolerant and therefore can not have real cream? Is it that person's fault that they are allergic?
Apply that to audio in that we all have different budgets of what we can afford and therefore should not be looked down upon just because of class status or just because we can't afford the same things. The whole idea of the hobby is to help with information and ideas and such for each other as we each pursue to get the best out of what we have, right up to what any of us may have just purchased, no matter the cost.
You can give up on your friends all you want, some folks are teachable and some are not. Teaching or educating someone does not mean making them see things your way.
 
Of course it is not someone's fault if they are lactose intolerant and can't have ice cream. Then the artificial stuff may be just for them (I don't know). But that is not relevant to what I was saying.

When we talk about money and budgets and hobbies, we need to talk about specific interests. If someone loves Jazz and gets the best system they can, or the system they want, that's great, it's the music that counts. But many people, on sites like this, do not have music as their hobby, their equipment is their hobby. They need the best. They trade in something every few months, they never seem satisfied, they want something more. If they cannot live with what they have, that is a problem. If they cannot live with what other people have, that's snobbery.

Sadly, and this is not a snobbery issue, I have seen people obsessed with things that seem to take over their lives. Their relationships suffer, their self esteem suffers and their former friends have suffered.

I do respectfully disagree with one point: "The whole idea of the hobby is to help with information and ideas and such for each other." No. In my view, the idea of a hobby is to occupy yourself in something that you enjoy. Helping others is a nice goal, but it is separate.Unless, of course, helping people is your hobby. And when people insist on helping me when I don't want to be help brings me back to the snobbery issue.
 
I'm smiling inside, I'm happy... And I love gear lovers, gear switchers and traders and all; they have something to bring that others (like me) don't. :)

_____________

"My greatest struggle in life is my unstable mental/physical awareness from living in a world surrounded by unstable people.

If I could only have the diligent force to understand and control my own peaceful destiny...I believe in me.

All my life's deepest desires, memories and aspirations would forever be vanished into today's life of true ecstasy." - Bob (me)
 
Bob,

One of the things I like about this site is that people are not snobs, they love this hobby, but, as you and I know, they are also here for the love of music and movies. Oh we tease each other a bit, but everyone on this site have been supportive and helpful.

I guess this is hard hobby to have if you do not have some affluence but people love to work on their system. And I do like to share. I have so much fun talking to you and others about movies and music. But, you know, seriously, after seeing and hearing movies on blu ray with great surround sound I have become fussy....maybe a bit snobbish. I want to hear music on good systems and see movies on a sharp, colorful, BIG, screen.
 
Lefisc said:
Of course it is not someone's fault if they are lactose intolerant and can't have ice cream. Then the artificial stuff may be just for them (I don't know). But that is not relevant to what I was saying.

When we talk about money and budgets and hobbies, we need to talk about specific interests. If someone loves Jazz and gets the best system they can, or the system they want, that's great, it's the music that counts. But many people, on sites like this, do not have music as their hobby, their equipment is their hobby. They need the best. They trade in something every few months, they never seem satisfied, they want something more. If they cannot live with what they have, that is a problem. If they cannot live with what other people have, that's snobbery.

Sadly, and this is not a snobbery issue, I have seen people obsessed with things that seem to take over their lives. Their relationships suffer, their self esteem suffers and their former friends have suffered.

I do respectfully disagree with one point: "The whole idea of the hobby is to help with information and ideas and such for each other." No. In my view, the idea of a hobby is to occupy yourself in something that you enjoy. Helping others is a nice goal, but it is separate.Unless, of course, helping people is your hobby. And when people insist on helping me when I don't want to be help brings me back to the snobbery issue.
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Ah, I understand you. (Actually, it has a lot to do with your metaphor, it was your metaphor after all). I see where your coming from though and I can't disagree with it either. It is about the music, absolutely correct! I also personally,find that in the physical world, this hobby is solitary,especially if your like me and in for the music more than the gear. I was responding coming from the cyber end of things.
I have not run into people trying to help me in audio without my asking for help yet. I have in other areas though and I hate that. I have run into people putting me down for the gear I use when I ask for help though on occasion. Thankfully, they are far and few between, but I admit, it does hurt no matter how comfortable you are with your own stuff.
 
Bob and Bob:

Please let em tell you an absolute true story that’s maybe 15 years old. And it’s about another Bob.

I had a business associate who probably made 10 times the amount of money I did and I thought we were friends. He loved stereo, or so he said. He kept asking about mine: I had a Levenson preamp, amp and CD player and Thiel speakers. In the new age of home theater I soon added a Levenson Surround (proceed, actually) and rear Thiel speakers. I loved it. He had a complete Macintosh system and wanted to replace it.

I’ll spoil the ending: rather than matching his system, or thinking about it, he simply felt that if you paid the MOST money for it was the best, be it stereos, home theater, cars, houses, clothes etc.) Yes, he was a snob.

He bought Diva Electrostatic speakers, but his room was so small the speakers couldn’t sound right. (I’d say 15 by 20 feet). He bought two Krell stereo amps to be used as monos. He didn’t bridge them to make them mono, he got Radio Shack wires and did something in their wiring. Remember stereo amps usually were more expensive than the monos. He put a giant projection TV between the speakers, destroying any sound from the Divas. And he got a bookshelf speaker, on an older Mac amp for a center channel. The TV destroyed any bass he might have gotten. And any transparency that was left.

For the rear speakers he got Radio shack speakers on a stereo Bryston amp.

Wow, I cannot tell you how deficient the system sounded, yet it cost 5 times what mine did in the end. But he wasn’t interested in music. He liked his system simply because it cost so much money and looked impressive. Until one day…..

He came over to my house and listened (and watched) my system. It sounded wonderful. My system has bass, which he destroyed in his system. My system also had high notes that weren’t shrill and real sense of surround. This was the era just before Dolby 5.1.

But he couldn’t listen to the music. He had to listen to the speakers. He could watch the movie, he was watching the TV set.

For the next few years he was actually mad at me, like this was my fault. I was NOT with him when he bought his stuff (was there when he bought his Wadia CD Player) but he said that he’d ask me if Krell were good amps, were Bryston etc…. and I said they were, but I never said they went together! Well, I don’t know why he didn’t bridge the Krells, or why he bought Divas for a small room and then put a TV in it and why he’d mismatch everything.

I sometimes wonder if he was just mad that something less expensive was better. Or that if you work at something, as I did, you can make it better. My brother has a wonderful “normal person” system, with a Marantz amp and matching speakers, and I love watching movies at his house and listening to music too! All that got lost at Bob’s house.
 
Lefisc said:
Bob,

One of the things I like about this site is that people are not snobs, they love this hobby, but, as you and I know, they are also here for the love of music and movies. Oh we tease each other a bit, but everyone on this site have been supportive and helpful.

I guess this is hard hobby to have if you do not have some affluence but people love to work on their system. And I do like to share. I have so much fun talking to you and others about movies and music. But, you know, seriously, after seeing and hearing movies on blu ray with great surround sound I have become fussy....maybe a bit snobbish. I want to hear music on good systems and see movies on a sharp, colorful, BIG, screen.
Click to expand...

You're my good movie friend Barry, and much more as you and I share similar philosophies.

Here at AudioShark I finally found peace with the gentle people. And it don't matter at all to me what are our social status in life and what our music systems consist of. The experience we all have, and all in our own unique ways, and the way we share them with mutual respect, freedom, no strings attached, no money incentive, our thirst to discover more music for the soothing of our soul so that we can be better people is what I'm all about plus everything else in life that makes me feel good about myself and the people around me.

Many here are sharing their experience with various audio components and loudspeakers, and that I love immensely.
It don't matter to me if you are married with the same gear and the same music for the last fifty years, or that you change gear and music style more often than I change my underwear; what truly matters is sharing your own unique experience and live happy with yourself and everyone else.

And I know that I fit this philosophy very well; the same philosophy that you and all the creators and contributors here on this site share all together.
Finally I found peace at last.

The best is also what's inside people, not only in their gear.
And you don't need to be a digital or analog man to have good in you. ...You can have both and still be good too. ;)

P.S. I'm not shure if I was the right Bob! :D
 
Lefisc said:
Bob,

One of the things I like about this site is that people are not snobs, they love this hobby, but, as you and I know, they are also here for the love of music and movies. Oh we tease each other a bit, but everyone on this site have been supportive and helpful.

I guess this is hard hobby to have if you do not have some affluence but people love to work on their system. And I do like to share. I have so much fun talking to you and others about movies and music. But, you know, seriously, after seeing and hearing movies on blu ray with great surround sound I have become fussy....maybe a bit snobbish. I want to hear music on good systems and see movies on a sharp, colorful, BIG, screen.
Click to expand...

Wanting something different after hearing it such as hearing Blue Ray audio vs DVD audio or just being particular about what you want is not the same as being a snob. It's called simply knowing what you want. If your not putting others down for what they have or their abilities, then your not being a snob.
 
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