Are they going to destroy audio?

[Projectman]

<<deleted>>

 

[Michaels HiFi]

I didn’t structure my one response very well but won’t edit it so you will have something to reference and hold over me. In just over a month you been on this forum you have posted 303 times and haven’t taught me a thing except you enjoy attacking others and constantly showing your ignorance. Please, give us all a break and stop posting!

I didn't realize I was here to teach you things. Especially where you posted you don't like audiophiles. Or forums with opinions.

And if you feel standing up to people who purposely cause drama is fighting, oh well. You need to stay off forums. You certainly have no problem participating in it yourself.

I've learned at this stage in my life if you piss off certain kinds of people you are doing something right.

 

[ADCO]

You really have a hard time with reading comprehension

I didn’t say that regulations on these devices didn’t happen nor did I say it was a wise or unwise decision to do so…

What was meant , in grade 5 English, is that when your dealing with millions of units verses thousands …. The latter will not even raise an eyebrow . It’s not worth the time spent on the legal actions to bother make it happen.

And, so that you know . You haven’t actually attempted to stay on topic for a while yet. Granted the topic has shifted some but perhaps spend some of your every so valuable time researching when the amplifier Gestapo are coming and enlighten us accordingly .

 

[Michaels HiFi]

You really have a hard time with reading comprehension

I didn’t say that regulations on these devices didn’t happen nor did I say it was a wise or unwise decision to do so…

What was meant , in grade 5 English, is that when your dealing with millions of units verses thousands …. The latter will not even raise an eyebrow . It’s not worth the time spent on the legal actions to bother make it happen.

And, so that you know . You haven’t actually attempted to stay on topic for a while yet. Granted the topic has shifted some but perhaps spend some of your every so valuable time researching when the amplifier Gestapo are coming and enlighten us accordingly .

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't realize there are only thousands of amps and power using audio components in the US with over 350 million people.

 

[ADCO]

Nice edit to your post by the way….

Just a little recap there big fella

We are talking about class A amps , or maybe even Class A/B and how regulation will knock them all out … and if the alternative (Class D and derivatives ) are any good

You really think there are millions in NY?

That’s just plain laughable

 

[mresseguie]

I saw a post over on another forum that echoed a concern I've had for awhile based on what we see happening around us.

On that forum there were some people pushing class D amps with unsubstantiated claims that their "carbon footprint" is smaller than that of other amps to design and build and therefore we need to get rid of the other types of amps. Personally I don't care about the imaginary carbon footprint of my gear I care about how it sounds.

I also see people in general posting about concern for how much energy Class A amps waste and therefore should be outlawed.

What are your thoughts? Are these people going to destroy audio? I think of CA for instance that just outlawed the purchase of any new gas powered outdoor equipment. I can picture them coming for our amps next.

Maybe I need a bumper sticker that reads "you can pry my tube amp from my cold dead hands" as a play of another famous saying? LOL. That could just be the Texas in me talking.

ETA: This is NOT meant to talk about the political issues - just the real concern of them ruining audio. As an example - Luxman has stopped producing their 590 class A amp due to this issue. So it's real.
It is certainly well used, but most people agree it is not audiophile ready. [unsubstatiated ]

I hope you are right. However it has already become enough of a concern that Luxman stopped making their 590 Class A integrateds and they openly stated its due to environmental regulations. [unsubstatiated ]

Someone should tell Luxman as they already have stopped making Class A integrateds and they squarely lay the blame on environmental regulations. [unsubstatiated ]
I've explained what it is about multiple times and ways (including in my post you quote above) and you just can't seem to grasp what this is about. I am sorry this is so difficult for you to understand and don't know how to help you or be any more clear. [How many times have you explained it above?]

I was commenting as a Luxman fan regarding how Luxman killed off their Class A amps [Still unsubstantiated!]
All of that makes sense. However the issue with Class A is the greenies are coming up with arbitrary and made up numbers as to why Class A and other electronics are "evil". It is completely random based on numbers they make up out of thin air "oh...this many of watts we arbitrarily decide it too much".

Do you really think they will stop with Class A amps or whatever arbitrary numbers they come up with this time?

What happens when they come for Class D because they it's time for new arbitrary numbers? At what point do we simply say leave us alone and they should focus on more pressing issues such as them flying all over the world on their own private jets?

You are looking at this logically and assuming their appetite can be fulfilled. Based on their history and past actions, that is never the case. Where will it stop? [Fear mongering.]

'm an 'early adopter' in the consumer life cycle. I love new technology - except when I don't like how it sounds or works. Aren't we well past the life cycle of class D being considered new technology? I think Mike mentioned its been out for like 20 years?

If anyone still thinks after reading all these posts that this is an anti-class D thread (especially people 'scared' of new stuff that is 20 years old technology) and not about the real issues that has been repeated multiple times, then they are choosing to ignore the obvious. [What, exactly, are the real issues?]

Edited to add: Trying to compare a MARKET driven advancement in technology with a completely arbitrary and devoid-of-any-facts greenie mandate again purposely misses the point that has been repeated multiple times in this thread. [Stated multiple times in this thread?????]

Hi Mike - Along with it being referenced in various reviews I've read, Mike @ Suncoast was told this himself by Luxman. [I PMed Mike about this, but got no response. You've read it in various reviews, but you haven't supplied links to those reviews, so this is unsubstantiated.]

And once again you've missed the point of the entire original post.... [What was the point of the original post, Mike?]

I can't be any more clear than what I've already posted that you've chosen to ignore. [What you've posted are unsubstatiated claims, Mike.]
LOL. A personal bitter rant. LOL. I prefer tubes and class a/b over Class A, but I understand you enjoy stirring the pot just like you did on that other forum with them there.

I posted above about him. You are welcome to reach out to him if you don't believe me. But I bet you won't. [I did.]

BTW, I am enjoying how much you two either won't/can't read the posts [Which posts?] or have and refuse to acknowledge him. Funny since he responded to you and you ignored him.

ETA: You can keep trying with the personal attacks as that is only a reflection on you and not me. I really don't care and it surely doesn't make your intentional diverting any less entertaining.
- I saw a post over on another forum that echoed a concern I've had for awhile based on what we see happening around us.
- On that forum there were some people pushing class D amps with unsubstantiated claims that their "carbon footprint" is smaller than that of other amps;
- They say we need to get rid of the other types of amps other than Class D;
- I don't care about the imaginary carbon footprint - only how it sounds;
- I also see people in general posting about concern for how much energy Class A amps waste and therefore should be outlawed.
- What are your thoughts? Are these arbitrary moves going to destroy audio?
- Example: CA just comically outlawed the purchase of any new gas powered outdoor equipment and gas powered cars; France is outlawing ANY gas vehicle from even DRIVING in Paris. [I've asked you to prove your claim that Luxman has stopped producing Class A amps for the reason you stated. You have not produced a shred of evidence proving your assertion.] [I've read a post on a discussion forum that claimed that the sky is green, so it must be true, and up yours for questioning my source.]

2) I have clearly stated multiple times in this thread my source and his name and you know how to contact him very easily and you have still yet to reach out to him even though he has responded to you and you've ignored him. Who is the reluctant one? [I already answered this above ....pretty soon, I'll say I answered it multiple times.]
So you still refuse to ask him? That's your choice but makes you look bad after saying I was wrong now doesn't it?

No need to 'guess' as I have openly stated it at least twice and the fact he didn't say I was wrong says it all. Either reach out to him and own your mistake or just let it go and we will all know that you were wrong anyway and now you're trying to save face.

I respect if you have a different opinion and you could have simply said and we would have had an adult conversation. But instead you chose to act just like on the other board with personal attacks, insults, and purposely derailing a thread due to your extreme environmental beliefs and now you want to just agree to disagree. Maybe try the adult approach first next time. That's why I asked for people OPINIONS on my original post - to have an open adult conversation. But you just couldn't allow that and had to take the extremist positions you did.

I have nothing against you and look forward to positive exchanges in the future. Just skip the "anti-social" behavior (as you put it) next time. I know the moderators on the other forum suggested people ignore you, but I look forward to friendly discussions in the future. Hopefully you are capable of that.

ETA: Some of us tried to end the poor behavior and apologized for it back on page 2. You choose not to and instead chose to continue with your behavior. That's on you. [Thank you so much for respecting others for having different opinions.]

Then clearly you missed the entire point of my opening post. [I'm pretty sure EVERYBODY has misunderstood the entire point of your opening post, but this is just my opinion.]

It makes complete sense if reading it while drunk. LOL [My first reaction to this statement was too wonder if you were drunk when you typed the opening post in this thread.]

Sorry - I've have repeatedly but you just ignore it. Can't help the horse who refuses to drink the water. . [As evidenced above, I have not ignored you. There's so much fecal matter in the water that I dare not drink it.] Don't like the thread? Don't read it. Difficult concept I'm sure. [I really dislike most of the content in this thread. However, I found the posts by Atmashphere very enlightening, so I keep coming back.]

Mike did post a list of news items from Luxman, but there was absolutely no mention in any of them of Luxman's decision to stop producing Class A amps because the company is being forced to stop selling them because of pressure from WEF or EU, or 'they' or 'them'.

In the short time you've been here, how many people have you placed on ignore?

 

[kzhtoo]

Train wreck is having a field day compared to this thread. The beginning of the end of a thread always starts with a handful of the same conspiracy spewers.

Seems it’s time to lock it down.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

I

ETA: This is NOT meant to talk about the political issues - just the real concern of them ruining audio. As an example - Luxman has stopped producing their 590 class A amp due to this issue. So it's real.
It is certainly well used, but most people agree it is not audiophile ready. [unsubstatiated ]

I hope you are right. However it has already become enough of a concern that Luxman stopped making their 590 Class A integrateds and they openly stated its due to environmental regulations. [unsubstatiated ]



In the short time you've been here, how many people have you placed on ignore?

Let me help:

In regards to your claims of unsubstantiated - I have clearly stated where the info came from.

In regards to your claims of unsubstantiated - this is not a court of law, I don't really care if you chose to believe it or not

In regards to being blocked - I really don't care. Unfortunately the ones who like to spout demonstrably false statements, purposely pretend they can't comprehend the simple premise of the OP so they can go all green , and those pushing their "anti-social" (loved that one) extremist views still come back to cause trouble and then pretend - gasp - they are outraged I actually push back on them. Don't like it? Then be nice and don't pretend you are offended when someone doesn't put up with your crap. So how many? I'd say not enough of the trouble makers.

Sorry - didn't waste my time reading the rest of your post. Don't like me being this way? Then don't be a jerk. Want me to be nice? Then be nice.

Pretty simple concept.

 

[Shadowfax]

Train wreck is having a field day compared to this thread. The beginning of the end of a thread always starts with a handful of the same conspiracy spewers.

Seems it’s time to lock it down.

The only Conspiracy Theory is that they are all Conspiracy Theories.

So if you want to get this thread back on track, why don't you post about Carbon Credits which they want to trickle down to individuals. Where does that leave the Class A owner compared to the Class D owner?

Article 10 of the Paris Agreement (I assume all the deniers have read this) speaks to pushing Technology towards a smaller Carbon Footprint. Results become an insane push for EVs while no place in the world is ready to deal with all the logistics.

Trickle down to Household Items including Audio Gear. Results will be a push to have Manufactures stop building items that consume more Carbon Credits. And like Atmosphere stated early on, it takes less energy and Carbon to build a Class D amp as well it uses less Carbon to run. Hence the underlying push for this technology.

Here are a few refs

"While this may have started as a corporate/government endeavor to limit carbon emissions, it is slowly spilling over to basic consumers, morphing into an attempt to track individual carbon footprints and encourage the trade of carbon credits at a household or individual level."
from
It'''s Time for Individual Carbon Credit Allowance | HackerNoon

https://unfccc.int/files/meetings/paris_nov_2015/application/pdf/paris_agreement_english_.pdf

Here is one for our Canadian friend who was unaware of what is going on under his nose with Guns which will trickle down to whatever is decided for them.
Canada Launches Carbon Pricing Initiative at COP27

For those that also did not read what was signed at the G20 where special guest Klaus Schwab of the WEF attended. Note sections 11 and 12. The Bali Declaration
G20 Bali Leaders’ Declaration | The White House

If you still think there is no agenda and everything you disagree with or are just unaware of is a Conspiracy Theory, it's most likely because you are in the comfort zone of information and choose not to look further. And if you did, you might have to admit it to yourself.

Please don't read any of the links I posted above.

Again since this is not supposed to get too political, I won't list all the Conspiracy Theories that have become Truth over the last few years and continue daily now.

I hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving. I am thankful that I have an open mind and can allow others to have their own opinions and beliefs. That's what make Discussion Forums fun. If we all thought the exact same thing, what would we talk about?

 

[Mike]

Just to clarify, months ago when Luxman discontinued all their Class A amps, I asked Luxman “why?” They said “for environmental reasons.”

Let’s hope they have a change of heart and we see more great class A amps from them in the future.

Not sure why all the fuss.

VAC use to make several 300b amps, but no longer do.
Pass, Block, Boulder, Vitus, Gryphon, Pilium, etc still makes lots of Class A amps.
Rowland has realized the market doesn’t want class D and is refocusing on AB again.
AGD and Rose build killer GAN Class D amps.
ARC and BAT continue to use scarce Russian tubes.

Some companies change, some continue despite challenges.

The world continues to spin regardless.

Tomorrow is Turkey day. Enjoy your family.

Peace [emoji3522] [emoji3577]

(God, Northstar Bob must be rubbing off on me).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Shadowfax]

Huh??

Are you Canadian ? Or just “read” about us.
I’m a member at our local golf/gun club. I just bought a handgun and a long rifle ….no issues as long as you have proper registration .

I think your talking about AK style guns, in which case no one needs those things.

We have always had restrictions here but there are plenty of available and legal firearms should you feel the need. These “restrictions”… or so they are called , keep our kids from being killed at school, armed robbery at a far less per capita rate and very dam few handgun murders as well. Explain to me how this is bad

Further, what on gods green earth does that have to do with my expensive to operate Class A amplifier.

Is it a full moon?

I got back a little late. I see you have been educated already.

The point I was trying to make which seemed to go over many heads is that if they can do what they just did to you with Guns, they can do it with any item they choose. Pretty simple concept.

And like they shut down Truckers Bank Accounts because things are Digital, once they get everyone all Electrified, they can shut your power off if they think your Amp uses too much energy.

Too many people are micro focusing on the Class A Amp when the intent of the OP (IMHO) was to point out the trend that is unfolding under our noses that as we can see by all but 2 people in this thread, can't see or choose not to see.

See my post just above for more supporting info if you want to learn more.

 

[kzhtoo]

The only Conspiracy Theory is that they are all Conspiracy Theories.

So if you want to get this thread back on track, why don't you post about Carbon Credits which they want to trickle down to individuals. Where does that leave the Class A owner compared to the Class D owner?

Article 10 of the Paris Agreement (I assume all the deniers have read this) speaks to pushing Technology towards a smaller Carbon Footprint. Results become an insane push for EVs while no place in the world is ready to deal with all the logistics.

Trickle down to Household Items including Audio Gear. Results will be a push to have Manufactures stop building items that consume more Carbon Credits. And like Atmosphere stated early on, it takes less energy and Carbon to build a Class D amp as well it uses less Carbon to run. Hence the underlying push for this technology.

Here are a few refs

"While this may have started as a corporate/government endeavor to limit carbon emissions, it is slowly spilling over to basic consumers, morphing into an attempt to track individual carbon footprints and encourage the trade of carbon credits at a household or individual level."
from
It'''s Time for Individual Carbon Credit Allowance | HackerNoon

https://unfccc.int/files/meetings/paris_nov_2015/application/pdf/paris_agreement_english_.pdf

Here is one for our Canadian friend who was unaware of what is going on under his nose with Guns which will trickle down to whatever is decided for them.
Canada Launches Carbon Pricing Initiative at COP27

For those that also did not read what was signed at the G20 where special guest Klaus Schwab of the WEF attended. Note sections 11 and 12. The Bali Declaration
G20 Bali Leaders’ Declaration | The White House

If you still think there is no agenda and everything you disagree with or are just unaware of is a Conspiracy Theory, it's most likely because you are in the comfort zone of information and choose not to look further. And if you did, you might have to admit it to yourself.

Please don't read any of the links I posted above.

Again since this is not supposed to get too political, I won't list all the Conspiracy Theories that have become Truth over the last few years and continue daily now.

I hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving. I am thankful that I have an open mind and can allow others to have their own opinions and beliefs. That's what make Discussion Forums fun. If we all thought the exact same thing, what would we talk about?

Common sense, man. No one is really out to get you. They are busy with their lives and family. The only reason you think they’re out to get you is because you’re out to get them. Schemers always get paranoid and think the world is like them. Those links you used (without even reading) are there to exploit people like you.

 

[Shadowfax]

Common sense, man. No one is really out to get you. They are busy with their lives and family. The only reason you think they’re out to get you is because you’re out to get them. Schemers always get paranoid and think the world is like them. Those links you used (without even reading) are there to exploit people like you.

Of course you didn't read them and you probably have no idea what they are. It's all good. Like I said, you can have your own opinion, but what I posted are Real Agendas, not Conspiracy Theories and they are happening slowly but still happening. It's OK if you choose to deny it. Lots of people are denying plenty of reality lately. But once again, just because you don't agree with something, that doesn't make it a Conspiracy Theory unless you can post proof that it is. Up to now, you have posted nothing useful at all, just trying to make people look bad and yourself superior. Enjoy!

 

[kzhtoo]

Of course you didn't read them and you probably have no idea what they are. It's all good. Like I said, you can have your own opinion, but what I posted are Real Agendas, not Conspiracy Theories and they are happening slowly but still happening. It's OK if you choose to deny it. Lots of people are denying plenty of reality lately. But once again, just because you don't agree with something, that doesn't make it a Conspiracy Theory unless you can post proof that it is. Up to now, you have posted nothing useful at all, just trying to make people look bad and yourself superior. Enjoy!

At least I don’t equate the danger of guns to class A amps. It’s simply common sense.

 

[ADCO]

I got back a little late. I see you have been educated already.

The point I was trying to make which seemed to go over many heads is that if they can do what they just did to you with Guns, they can do it with any item they choose. Pretty simple concept.

And like they shut down Truckers Bank Accounts because things are Digital, once they get everyone all Electrified, they can shut your power off if they think your Amp uses too much energy.

Too many people are micro focusing on the Class A Amp when the intent of the OP (IMHO) was to point out the trend that is unfolding under our noses that as we can see by all but 2 people in this thread, can't see or choose not to see.

See my post just above for more supporting info if you want to learn more.

You don’t seem to fully understand Canadian culture whatsoever and keep commenting about our gun laws . It matters not to me that I was rightfully corrected . We here in Canada embrace our gun laws and frankly as a general rule encourage even stiffer laws .
Factually speaking and from the only context I know (mine) I may very well be a gun owner , I may very well enjoy going to the range when it’s to cold or wet to golf , but…. The overwhelming majority of Canadians including the vast majority of gun owners have complete indifference to tighter laws.

South of us has a different opinion obviously but the point being is that the reason our completely childish and inept leader was able to pass that law is because Canadians as a whole want that… actively.

And yes, they went after “some” truckers during their sit in but if you mine down on which they were it was , as a comparison, similar types of people you saw on your little mishap Jan 6th…. Of coarse they went after them , duh

There seems to be a lot of pontification about our electronics , as I tried to explain to another poster here , if we looked at how many actual customers are buying (for example) Class A amplifiers in North America…relative to the audio market as a whole, it’s minuscule. Microscopic actually . There are likely some industry guys here that could fill in those numbers correctly but I doubt they would show any deviation from my guess.

The talk about carbon credits is just that. Talk. There is so much water yet to go under that bridge before it could possibly be done right and implemented in such a way that didn’t cause the very politicians doing it to be hung.

On topic , I have 3 Nuprime Class D monos and a Nuprime 4 Channel Class D running the satellites and Atmos channels on the home theatre as well as a Lyngdorf TDA 3400 integrated as the power in my office. I like Class D for certain things. They don’t compare to my 200 watt Class A monos in the main rig though , in any way you would want to quantify the sonics.
ThatÂ’s absolutely not to say there isnÂ’t Class D amps that are great, I’m sure there are. But my consternation lies in the idea that the Class D have a smaller carbon footprint . I have had a bunch of them , ones with Ice Modules , multichannel amps for the theatre with some version or another….They just dont have , or my experience has been they donÂ’t age well or as long.
My friend still has my ancient Classe monos from the late 90’s and they still sound great and have never so much as farted in the wrong direction. How does this factor into the carbon footprint?…
These are complicated quantifications that admittedly are above my pay grade but my experience with class D is that this is a disposable product. I’m sure that examples exist where longevity exist but in the dozen or so versions I have had I am yet to experience.

As for “them” shutting down my amp if it uses to much energy? Really?

Explain to me , preferably in great detail , how such a scenario could come to fruition . I’d love to hear the exact trajectory of the chain of events that would lead to this.

 

[Rnrmf]

Train wreck is having a field day compared to this thread. The beginning of the end of a thread always starts with a handful of the same conspiracy spewers.

Seems it’s time to lock it down.

Please NO!
My conspiracy theory is a half dozen of you are on the Audio Shark payroll to drive repeat visits to this thread!

 

[Mechnutt]

Ralph, I got to hear your new Class D Mono blocks at Paul's house in WI who also owns a pair of your M1 Mono blocks and a highly modified MP3 preamp (that you modified with all new V-Caps) and an Aqua La Scala Optologic MKII DAC with upgraded tubes. While the Class D mono's had the edge in deeper, punchier bass and leading edge of notes, the M1 blew it out of the water in musicality, depth and height of the sound stage as well as texture and tone. Especially on piano, guitar and vocals. I much preferred the M1's. However, the Class D amps sound very smooth and listenable.

Class D or some sort of hybrid class D like PSA's Class D-tube M1200 mono blocks is the future (they sound great according to a friend of mine who owns a pair.)

 

[AJ Soundfield]

In 10,000 years, paleontologists will be digging up dinosaur bones and audiophile bones, still clutching their class A amps in their cold dead hands.
Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[Michaels HiFi]

In 10,000 years, paleontologists will be digging up dinosaur bones and audiophile bones, still clutching their class A amps in their cold dead hands.
Happy Thanksgiving!

Happy Thanksgiving!

I hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable day with family. Gobble! Gobble!

 

[AJ Soundfield]

Looks like I triggered a turkey snowflake meltdown :lol: