bluegrassphile
Member
It's none of the things you mentioned. Just curious, that's all. I LOVE my dual power MSB Discrete. I didn't really think I'd gain anything by hooking up the Furman. Just thought I'd ask people that know more about it than me.
Anyone dumping their power conditiner?
- Thread starter TheOctopus
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Kingrex
Active member
I have had a Denali at my place. Shunyata gear can make a distinct change in tone that to most is positive. Its appears more dynamic, clean and lively. The soundstage also expands in a good way. I would have kept it had I not had other devices in my system that created the same sonic signature.
In the not the distant future I want to put my Zub Zero on a power strip with a couple defenders in parallel. But like all noise, it had a specific frequency. If your not filtering that frequency your not doing anything good.
In the not the distant future I want to put my Zub Zero on a power strip with a couple defenders in parallel. But like all noise, it had a specific frequency. If your not filtering that frequency your not doing anything good.
I have a Niagara 1000 which worked quite well with my then blue heaven power cords, I then upgraded to Nordost Frey 2 power cord to amp and Hemidall 2 for pre and phono stage, I found that the sound was "muddled", i tried different variations and no change. I now plug directly into wall and sound quality much better. Question is if I decide to spend the money on a power generator will it drastically improve the performance of my system.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Any thoughts?
Thanks
brad225
Well-known member
What is a Zub Zero? I searched for it and the only thing I came up with is the refrigerator of a similar name.
Kingrex
Active member
Yes, my refrigerator. It is a high pollution household appliance. It has fans and compressor motors. Not only electrical noise emanates from them to the power line, there is mechanical noise impacts. When my refrigerator turns on I get a small low level warble noise from my speakers. It also mechanically resonates in the far corner of my house behind one of my speakers. That is louder than the speaker noise. Its odd as the floor is decoupled by 2 steel beams and separate floor joist. I think its air born the low frequency piles up in the corner. But anyhow, the electrical noise may be mitigated to some degree by a couple defenders on a power strip with the refer also in the power strip. This is just a guess. I have not tried it yet. Its a heavy refrigerator and take blankets and plywood on the floor to protect surfaces when moving it. I'm also a little unsure the space constraints behind it.
Kingrex
Active member
Certain ones do. The AddPower is a parallel device that brings a lot of life and energy to playback. I use the Symphony Pro and a couple Electra Clear. $1K or so. Well worth it.
FWIW, I am now a dealer of Addpower via Audio-Ultra.com. So yes, I have a bias.
brad225
Well-known member
We have a 48" Zub that is on a marble floor with 2 x 12's 12" OC. It also sits on the center carrying beam the joists sit on. They are beasts but I have never had a fridge that kept fresh vegetables fresh as long as this does.
On the electrical end, ours is on a different 200 amp panel as my music room. Both panels are fed on separate breakers from the meter panel. Do you think that same pollution carry back to the meter housing mains and into the second electrical panel?
Kingrex
Active member
Sure, some noise travels around the whole electrical infrastructure. Your also getting some noise from neighbors. But having distance, as in wire between appliances and your audio rack helps. And having your whole electrical infrastructure properly grounded also helps. The thing with filters is they have to be the correct frequency. If they are not the correct frequency, they are doing nothing. And this idea you are sucking noise out of a electrical supply, or shall I say, giving it a preferred path to some place where it is shunted out is a steep mountain to climb. Your refer may have little impact on your audio. My amps are not perfect and have some internal ground issues. As do probably most other people too. It seems to be these internal ground issues that become exacerbated by induced noise. If however your equipment is very well built and has good input filtration, noise becomes less an issue. But it still impacts sound quality. Every harmonic is causing the sine wave to be deformed that reduces the height of the wave, which means the available power is reduced to your equipment. Getting noise out of the electrical supply allows your gear to work at its optimum performance level.
BlueFox
New member
I put my refrigerator in the garage, and my living room stereo uses three dedicated circuits. I no longer hear the irritating noise of a running refrigerator, and it is electrically isolated from the stereo.
Sounds like your electrical set up at home needs work. I used to have flickering lights when I played music very loud. Hired an electrician to have each of my amps on separate breakers. One of the best investments I made. (Not to mention much Cheaper than any fancy power cord or power conditioner).
Kingrex
Active member
Why. Because my 20 year old refrigerator creates noise. My house electrical is solid. 1.2 ohm ground resistance. 0 milivolts potential between neutral to ground at the ends of all my power cords. My electrical is far beyond most anyone on here. Only my DAC, server and phono preamp are on receptacles. The amps and preamps are direct connected to their branch circuits and feed by OFC cabling from the panel to rack. As is the power strip feeding my front end.
What I have is inferior amps. Internal design issues. They sound good, but they are not built 100% right. And my old appliance leaks polution into my power. But I'm not ready to spend $11k to get a new refrigerator. No amount of utility and electrical infastructure upgrade will get rid of noise caused by pumps, fans, motors, hvac, poor light dimmers etc. It can be mitigated to a degree, but your gear has to be built to tolerate it. I don't believe most is.
brad225
Well-known member
Thanks for the explanation Kingrex.
Kingrex
Active member
Here is an example of bad wiring impacts. My Black Shadows have internal ground issues, so I have to lift the ground. They also bias at 98 watts which is too high for many 845 tubes. They are redplating my Psvane ACME ,so I pulled the BS and put my Casablanca back into rotation. I did not want to pull my rack from the wall to access the wiring and reconnect the ground. So the Casablanca are running as ungrounded. What I notice is when motors from fans and such turn on, there is a pretty loud snap that comes out my speakers. The Casablanca never does this when grounded. There is also a bit more noise in the background. The room is not as settled. Grounding matters.
Wait... And you are claiming that your electrical is far beyond most anyone here? [emoji16]
Kingrex
Active member
Its not good to tear down and rebuild to often. I always trim when I terminate. Crushing and recrushing wire causes strands to break and terminations to break apart and fail. Especially when using wire nuts. Split bolts less so, but they are not rated for multiple wires and harder to safely insulate.
mep
Well-known member
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In spite of how many times he has stated that he has finally solved all his hum and noise issues, the truth always comes out and his system is always plagued with hum and noise issues. What Electrician never mind a Master Electrician would talk about plugging a Sub Zero refrigerator into a power strip? In what state would that meet electric code requirements?
Kingrex
Active member
I like your Audio Research Ref 75 amps. They are well built. A friend has the ref mono 160s. Here is what you should try. Turn your volume to 0. Do you hear music? Go as low on the volume as you can before the volume goes away. Note the position. Now, try this tonight when all the neighborhood and you have Christmas lights on. I bet you have to raise the volume a little to get sound. Try this again early in the morning when everyone is asleep and lights are off. I bet you can hear music as a lower volume setting. Its a way to tell how much noise is actually impacting your gear. Even wel built gear is impacted by noise. Lesser quality gear is impacted in more dramatic way.
Can you show me a installation guide or NEC code reference where a home appliance such as a refrigerator is banned from connecting via a power strip. I couldn't find it.
mep
Well-known member
- Joined
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You can clearly hear music at “1” through my system. My speakers are 95dB 1w/1m and they jump right to life. I have no noise issues regardless of the time of day.
If you have your Sub Zero plugged into a power strip and your house burns down because of it, will your insurance cover your loss? I doubt the NEC ever anticipated someone plugging a very large appliance into anything but a wall outlet or the NEC has code requirements for what can be plugged into a power strip. I wouldn’t be surprised if the NEC specified what the minimum amperage required for a refrigerator circuit is which would include the breaker rating and wire gauge.
If you have your Sub Zero plugged into a power strip and your house burns down because of it, will your insurance cover your loss? I doubt the NEC ever anticipated someone plugging a very large appliance into anything but a wall outlet or the NEC has code requirements for what can be plugged into a power strip. I wouldn’t be surprised if the NEC specified what the minimum amperage required for a refrigerator circuit is which would include the breaker rating and wire gauge.