Am I courting derision and contempt?

Feanor

Feanor

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Apr 9, 2014
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Location
Southern Ontario
I just got my self one of the those cheap Chinese clones, that is, a "D5" Dartzeel NHB-108 clone ... see HERE. i got the cheaper "D5" version not the "D5Pro" version which has had greater celebrity.


The vendor says in part ...
1: The main amplifier circuit is derived from the Dartzeel-NHB-108, a famous machine with a price of around $50,000. The circuit matches the original 1:1. The selected components also correspond to the original at the key points in the sound and therefore no compromises have to be made in terms of sound compared to the original.
2: The secret of the Dartzeel 108 power amplifier is the design of the power amplifier circuit, which operates almost entirely without a feedback loop. Effects on the sound caused by feedback are completely eliminated. The sound is natural, open and the connected speakers are well controlled thanks to a power-coupled output stage.
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Se10a5b05e9664573915e3d8f98196233L.jpg

Picture might be the "D4Pro" version; I haven't opened the case yet. I chose Silver rather that Black and it looks great.

I paid a total of Cdn$800: $517 for the item, $283 for shipping. Ordered on July 18. shipped from Hong Kong on July 24, received by me in London ON on July 30. The amp seems solidly made and sounds quite decent. At this point it seems a ludicrous bargain.

What's your opinion on copying patent-expired designs of high end equipment?
 
I think if the patent has expired it's fair game. That's how we get generic meds.

Many amps use little to know Feedback. I doubt that's the secret sauce. Often times I find those amps lacking in bass detail if not dealt with in another way.

It would be cool to compare that amp to the original. A crazy price gap. I'd suspect even with cheaper parts if the patent was followed it should sound decent.

A friend had one of those copycat Accuphase preamps. I have no way of knowing if it was as good as the original but it definitely had the sound character or Accuphase house sound.
 
If I remember correctly from a friends experience with the real Dartzeel 108nS, the manual was explicit in stating the unit should never be turned on without the speaker connected.

I am curious if the Chinese knock-off has the same warning.
 
Feanor said:
I just got my self one of the those cheap Chinese clones, that is, a "D5" Dartzeel NHB-108 clone ... see HERE. i got the cheaper "D5" version not the "D5Pro" version which has had greater celebrity.


The vendor says in part ...



Se10a5b05e9664573915e3d8f98196233L.jpg

Picture might be the "D4Pro" version; I haven't opened the case yet. I chose Silver rather that Black and it looks great.

I paid a total of Cdn$800: $517 for the item, $283 for shipping. Ordered on July 18. shipped from Hong Kong on July 24, received by me in London ON on July 30. The amp seems solidly made and sounds quite decent. At this point it seems a ludicrous bargain.

What's your opinion on copying patent-expired designs of high end equipment?
Click to expand...
Seems like fair game if the patent expired. If you like it
Feanor said:
I just got my self one of the those cheap Chinese clones, that is, a "D5" Dartzeel NHB-108 clone ... see HERE. i got the cheaper "D5" version not the "D5Pro" version which has had greater celebrity.


The vendor says in part ...



Se10a5b05e9664573915e3d8f98196233L.jpg

Picture might be the "D4Pro" version; I haven't opened the case yet. I chose Silver rather that Black and it looks great.

I paid a total of Cdn$800: $517 for the item, $283 for shipping. Ordered on July 18. shipped from Hong Kong on July 24, received by me in London ON on July 30. The amp seems solidly made and sounds quite decent. At this point it seems a ludicrous bargain.

What's your opinion on copying patent-expired designs of high end equipment?
Click to expand...
Fair game if the patent expired. I admire your willingness to give it a try-if you like it, its a bargain.
 
crwilli said:
If I remember correctly from a friends experience with the real Dartzeel 108nS, the manual was explicit in stating the unit should never be turned on without the speaker connected.

I am curious if the Chinese knock-off has the same warning.
Click to expand...

No, I found no such warning.
 
Mr Peabody said:
I think if the patent has expired it's fair game. That's how we get generic meds.

Many amps use little to know Feedback. I doubt that's the secret sauce. Often times I find those amps lacking in bass detail if not dealt with in another way.

It would be cool to compare that amp to the original. A crazy price gap. I'd suspect even with cheaper parts if the patent was followed it should sound decent.

A friend had one of those copycat Accuphase preamps. I have no way of knowing if it was as good as the original but it definitely had the sound character or Accuphase house sound.
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In fact i'm finding more that decent. I have no way to make a direct comparison but I'm feeling it as good as any of the A/B amps I've owned over the years including a Pass X150.5, a pair of Monarchy SM-70 Pros, and a Adcom GFA-555 II. For that matter I'm enjoying it as much as my Purifi 1ET400A despite that the Purifi is slightly better in detail & transparency, and bass control.
 
As a whole I find it disappointing that patents or no patents - we would choose to buy an audio piece knowing that purchase supports the #1 country of IP theft, industrial espionage and theft, Uyghurs concentration camps and forced labor.

There are so many other choices we can make in hifi audio. I personally would not buy a knock off and support the above.

Instead support a small company out of Europe or the USA. There are so many great ones who are deserving of our money and support.

Just my personal opinion.
 
Michaels HiFi said:
As a whole I find it disappointing that patents or no patents - we would choose to buy an audio piece knowing that purchase supports the #1 country of IP theft, industrial espionage and theft, Uyghurs concentration camps and forced labor.

There are so many other choices we can make in hifi audio. I personally would not buy a knock off and support the above.

Instead support a small company out of Europe or the USA. There are so many great ones who are deserving of our money and support.

Just my personal opinion.
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Michael I get your point, but................

How many of these 'small European or American companies' go ahead and have their products manufactured in China anyways ? and it's all for one reason........

many different ways of sleeping with the devil.....
 
Mikado463 said:
Michael I get your point, but................

How many of these 'small European or American companies' go ahead and have their products manufactured in China anyways ? and it's all for one reason........

many different ways of sleeping with the devil.....
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Really that is counter to Michaels valid point? If I invent and patent a product and have in manufactured in China I deserve to have my IP stolen and counterfeited? Your logic is in line with the disgusting and vile defence of a rapist saying the woman deserved it because of the way she dressed. Od better yet when the US Government deports a child rapist/pedofile and Tim Waltz compares that crime and deportation of the rapist having a bad day. WOW! what a flawed retort...flawed thought process.
 
RepublicOfTexas69 said:
Really that is counter to Michaels valid point? If I invent and patent a product and have in manufactured in China I deserve to have my IP stolen and counterfeited? Your logic is in line with the disgusting and vile defence of a rapist saying the woman deserved it because of the way she dressed. Od better yet when the US Government deports a child rapist/pedofile and Tim Waltz compares that crime and deportation of the rapist having a bad day. WOW! what a flawed retort...flawed thought process.
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LMAO Texas, sorry I didn't come across within your perfect framework. ;)
 
brad225 said:
If we all threw out everything in our lives that has a connection with being manufactured in China, your house and life would be rather empty.
I'm not a fan of China but this is currently reality.
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hey Brad, I think 'ole Tex put his boots on 'bass ackwards' today ! LOL !
 
Mikado463 said:
Michael I get your point, but................

How many of these 'small European or American companies' go ahead and have their products manufactured in China anyways ? and it's all for one reason........

many different ways of sleeping with the devil.....
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i try to avoid Chinese products when I can, though I doubt that any of us have not purchased Chinese products, and that's just my choice for my reasons with no judgment on anyone else. There are way too many people in the audio hobby who think its their business to critique how other people choose to spend their money.
 
RepublicOfTexas69 said:
Really that is counter to Michaels valid point? If I invent and patent a product and have in manufactured in China I deserve to have my IP stolen and counterfeited? Your logic is in line with the disgusting and vile defence of a rapist saying the woman deserved it because of the way she dressed. Od better yet when the US Government deports a child rapist/pedofile and Tim Waltz compares that crime and deportation of the rapist having a bad day. WOW! what a flawed retort...flawed thought process.
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I agree with your point. Its like saying that the Epstein file creeps get protected because of their wealth, status and powerful friends. Makes no sense. But, if the patent expired, its fair game and if someone wants to buy it, that's their business.
 
Kramer64 said:
I agree with your point. Its like saying that the Epstein file creeps get protected because of their wealth, status and powerful friends. Makes no sense. But, if the patent expired, its fair game and if someone wants to buy it, that's their business.
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I completely agree if the patent expired. Just because you mfr in China does not make it okay to steal IP and counterfeit products that are protected (internationally) by patents, copyright, trademarks and IP.
Mr Peabody said:
Come on let's not take another thread out in flames.
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