A topic that was deleted to make disappear on another forum....

[Michaels HiFi]

I doubt WBF will lose advertising unless most of users leave. Not much people saw the actual posts. I didn’t. My friends didn’t.

Bob / Rhapsody announced last week in a post on WBF he was leaving being a sponsor of WBF after being a sponsor for 10 years.

He talked about how Steve told him they were going to delete all his past threads since he was no longer going to pay the bribe fee...I mean advertising fee. So you need to keep paying Steve to keep him from deleting years of your posts.

He specifically pointed fingers and blamed the ownership of WBF and how Steve operates WBF relative to his special cozy relationship with certain companies and how that negatively affects paying sponsors.

Of course WBF immediately deleted many of the posts on that thread and locked it. The funny thing is WBF actually thinks deleting posts is somehow keeping the world from seeing the truth.

So long as they keep their current ways in play, and keep protecting the industry's biggest shill (who lately seems to be partnered with Steve in their shilling on gear), WBF will continue its slide into irrelevancy.

Look at both its declining traffic AND the companies who over the last few days have said they are going to be cutting ties with WBF over this latest gaffe-too-far episode.

We as consumers also need to put pressure on the companies who stay with WBF by refusing to buy from them and their dealers so long as they are associated with behavior we find unacceptable. We have a right to vote with our wallets.

Also funny to revisit some of the early posts on this thread to see what certain people posted and what the positions they took. Boy are they eating their words....again (remember their same claims re: Tannoy? They are certainly eating crow now).

And let's not forget that the main moderator over there Tom comes here to post while he has banned Mike from being able to post on WBF. It truly is watching a train wreck unfold.

If Ron Resnick were smart he'd dump his association with WBF and come over here. We'll leave the shills over at WBF.

 

[Adyc]

I agree that SW is the worst in terms of transparency. His open house parties make much sense now.

 

[BendingWave]

I agree that SW is the worst in terms of transparency. His open house parties make much sense now.

I started a thread on WBF about al of that and after many letters and nasty comments from the "staff" they closed that forum down. ALl I asked for was transparency and as an advertiser, like Bob V. I also pay a for the privilege of having a forum for my gear and I found it unfair and maybe worse that the forum was promoting other products from a special group of supporters over others and pretending that this was not the case. The Soulution/Stellavox/Zelaton/ Taiko/ Lampizator and others is very obvious to see. All those who participate and read can make up their own minds. I asked these questions and caught shit for it.
There were Rumors that the Lampizator guy got pressure to not appear on our HiFi Five podcast as well, not sure if this is fact but he did cancel at the last minute

 

[Mike Lavigne]

And btw, you never paid for the Lamms so that’s being disingenuous. But hey, you are a good negotiator and could stroke a big check that few could at the time so used it to your advantage.

not what happened. Bob had them sitting there collecting dust and he offered to get creative. i paid half up front and we agreed i would pay the balance in 6 months or if i sold them. and that somehow is a problem for you?

i bought them used, i was curious. had heard them at David's and Steve's. why should that change anything?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yeah Mike, sorry but buying a “used” piece at half off and then getting Bob to get you a warranty isn’t normal stuff. And then you admit to your posts helping Vince sell more product despite him not making anything in the deal.

i knew Bob and so he made it happen like he could for any customer. MSB did not know me from a bale of hay. later they did recognize my effect and the dealers calmed down once they sold more. but the warranty thing was not anything spurious. any customer would have wanted that 10 year warranty, part of the attraction of the product.

 

[Kingrex]

I stopped posting an logged out of WBF for the reasons Michaels noted. About the advertisers , deleting posts and closing threads. Michaels is posting with some bias and neglected data.

I am a business and had a paid advertiser spot on WBF for a year. They charged me $3000 a year. Others may pay a lot more. I don't know. Its seems to be up to Steve to pull a number out of his butt.

When you pay for business access your allowed to poo your products all over other people threads. In addition, you have your own banner under Dealers or Products or some location you agree to be placed. Everything you put into that location is there only as long as your pay. As soon as you stop paying, it all goes away. I never posted in that location knowing all the threads I opened would be deleted, just like Bobs. Bob should have started his room thread under General, or Rooms. Then is would not have been subject to such terms.

In the end, you have to realize, WBF as well as Aduioshark are private forums. Your a guest. You pay nothing. You don't have to write a check every week for server storage, moderators, technicians, accountants etc. Its a business. As a business, they are going to protect the income flow. Without the income flow, the forum would go away. The other option is to charge members say $5 to $10 to $20 a month. HHaaaahaaaaa. Every one of the noisy squealers would disappear. How dare they ask ME for money!!!!!!!! My wonderful comments attract eyes and that attract advertisers????? Excuse me, what did you say?

There are Whatsapp and other group chats out there with great members that do ask for some contribution to be a part. They are fine members. The ones I know don't allow dealers. If you have a gripe with a company, others are happy to be advised to stay away. At times people quarrel. But everyone is a know person. Your not hiding your identity, so there is a level of decorum that is higher. Too often the most boisterous and annoying posters on WBF are either a dealer, or someone hiding behind a VPN.

Anyhow, Bob was a anomaly in some sense. I asked him privately why he paid a dime to be on WBF. He's not really a dealer. Rhapsody does not work like that. My understanding is you get equipment from Rhapsody NY from the headquarters at a discounted price. In return, your home is open to customers to come listen. Only Rhapsody NY negotiates price and sells the equipment. Bob In Portland is just a guy who got a dealer discount. FWIW, I like the Rhapsody model. If I still lived in Seattle, I would have asked Bob NY to set me up. Accept, I don't like much of the gear they carry. If I were to invest larger and larger $$$ in audio, I would want to follow horns and low power amplifiers. Possibly Clarissa.

I would have thrown Taiko to the curb if I were a dealer of the product. Simply for ethical reasons. You don't take people money if you know you can't ship. I know others that privately told me Taiko is a mess and hosed them too. I'm disappointed they act so unethically. I want to like the little guy. At least a manufacturer like Decware is upfront that its going to take 3 years to get your product. And they only take 10% or something like that to get inline.

 

[Mike]

In the end, you have to realize, WBF as well as Aduioshark are private forums. Your a guest. You pay nothing. You don't have to write a check every week for server storage, moderators, technicians, accountants etc. Its a business. As a business, they are going to protect the income flow. Without the income flow, the forum would go away. The other option is to charge members say $5 to $10 to $20 a month. HHaaaahaaaaa. Every one of the noisy squealers would disappear. How dare they ask ME for money!!!!!!!! My wonderful comments attract eyes and that attract advertisers????? Excuse me, what did you say?

I would sure like to know where the income flow is for Audioshark. I only see the bills!

I had industry ads - they all bitched if someone made even a sideways comment about their product. So I removed them all and ended that program. So, this is how I knew things over on the other site would turn out. I had first hand experience.

I then switched to Google ads and we saw ads for dishwashers and lawn mowers. But, everyone complained about those ads and installed ad blockers.

So…I removed them.

Now, I just pay for everything myself. Yes, I talk about products I sell, but I try to keep it to a minimum. We sell 25,000 SKU’s of product, you all would get annoyed if I talked about them all. Frankly, I’m sincerely more interested in reading about all your ventures. We have lots of other avenues for constant marketing. We don’t need to blanket every post with our brands.

As for other sites, whenever there is sponsors, money and favors involved, you enter a whole realm of trouble. I got a taste of it early on when I had industry ads. I quickly got rid of them. Integrity is worth more.

My issue, that I’ve made very clear, is the secret shilling. Frankly, if you’re buying anything on the shilling of SW, you deserve what you get. LOL. But the others acting covertly is my issue. I’ve had customers get burned when they say “oh person X posted 900 times about it, I bought it and it was terrible.” I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: you can spot a secret shill a mile away when they make 297 posts on multiple forums. Most people get a new piece and make a couple or 3 posts and that’s it. Any more and you are either bragging or a shill. It just stinks to high heaven when one person in particular gets products and somehow makes dozens and dozens and dozens of posts about it. Waxing poetically about the most mundane thing, it’s a shill.

Example:

There are rituals in this hobby that transcend mere setup. Some people talk about the glow of tubes warming in a dark room, others swoon over the gentle thunk of a perfectly machined volume knob. But for me, nothing captures the quiet drama of the audiophile experience quite like that moment—that moment—when you guide the power cord toward the back of the amplifier.

It’s a gesture both delicate and deliberate, part ceremony, part engineering. The connection feels almost intimate: the polished blades aligning with the receptacle, the cable settling into place with that confident, satisfying resistance. It’s the promise of life, of current, of music waiting just behind a thin veil of silence.

For a split second, the entire world narrows to your fingertips. You can almost feel the circuitry awakening in anticipation, transformers dreaming of voltage, capacitors stretching like athletes before a race. The amp doesn’t speak yet, but it listens—waiting for that final push, that gentle but assertive click that tells it the universe is about to flow through its veins.

And when it’s seated—perfectly, securely—it’s more than a connection.

It’s communion.

A whisper between human
and machine, saying: We’re about to make something beautiful together.

 

[Kingrex]

@Mike
Mike. I did not intend to blanket you into a cast of WBF type behavior. I can see how it might be interpreted that way. I was simply trying to make the point we are all guest and with your blessing, allowed to post and contribute to conversations. As such, we have no say in how you run your forum. On paid Whatapp group chats, the members decide who can join and who to remove. They have this power as they all pay equally for their space. Mostly. There is one person who opens the account and has administration privileges.

What a hoot that power cord read. Almost sounds AI generated.

 

[Mike]

@Mike
Mike. I did not intend to blanket you into a cast of WBF type behavior. I can see how it might be interpreted that way. I was simply trying to make the point we are all guest and with your blessing, allowed to post and contribute to conversations. As such, we have no say in how you run your forum. On paid Whatapp group chats, the members decide who can join and who to remove. They have this power as they all pay equally for their space. Mostly. There is one person who opens the account and has administration privileges.

What a hoot that power cord read. Almost sounds AI generated.

Oh I know…I was just clarifying that we have no source of revenue for Audioshark. Seems much more peaceful that way! I WILL be changing the name of the forum. Stay tuned for the change sometime in 2026. Many other projects on the go.

 

[Kingrex]

Oh I know…I was just clarifying that we have no source of revenue for Audioshark. Seems much more peaceful that way! I WILL be changing the name of the forum. Stay tuned for the change sometime in 2026. Many other projects on the go.

Do we get a vote on the name11111

 

[Mike]

Do we get a vote on the name11111

Nah…even I didn’t get one! My marketing team already came up with it based on all these SEO analytics and stuff.

Trust me, it’s not exciting! It’s straight forward but impactful from an SEO standpoint.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

I stopped posting an logged out of WBF for the reasons Michaels noted. About the advertisers , deleting posts and closing threads. Michaels is posting with some bias and neglected data.

I am a business and had a paid advertiser spot on WBF for a year. They charged me $3000 a year. Others may pay a lot more. I don't know. Its seems to be up to Steve to pull a number out of his butt.

When you pay for business access your allowed to poo your products all over other people threads. In addition, you have your own banner under Dealers or Products or some location you agree to be placed. Everything you put into that location is there only as long as your pay. As soon as you stop paying, it all goes away. I never posted in that location knowing all the threads I opened would be deleted, just like Bobs. Bob should have started his room thread under General, or Rooms. Then is would not have been subject to such terms.

In the end, you have to realize, WBF as well as Aduioshark are private forums. Your a guest. You pay nothing. You don't have to write a check every week for server storage, moderators, technicians, accountants etc. Its a business. As a business, they are going to protect the income flow. Without the income flow, the forum would go away. The other option is to charge members say $5 to $10 to $20 a month. HHaaaahaaaaa. Every one of the noisy squealers would disappear. How dare they ask ME for money!!!!!!!! My wonderful comments attract eyes and that attract advertisers????? Excuse me, what did you say?

There are Whatsapp and other group chats out there with great members that do ask for some contribution to be a part. They are fine members. The ones I know don't allow dealers. If you have a gripe with a company, others are happy to be advised to stay away. At times people quarrel. But everyone is a know person. Your not hiding your identity, so there is a level of decorum that is higher. Too often the most boisterous and annoying posters on WBF are either a dealer, or someone hiding behind a VPN.

Anyhow, Bob was a anomaly in some sense. I asked him privately why he paid a dime to be on WBF. He's not really a dealer. Rhapsody does not work like that. My understanding is you get equipment from Rhapsody NY from the headquarters at a discounted price. In return, your home is open to customers to come listen. Only Rhapsody NY negotiates price and sells the equipment. Bob In Portland is just a guy who got a dealer discount. FWIW, I like the Rhapsody model. If I still lived in Seattle, I would have asked Bob NY to set me up. Accept, I don't like much of the gear they carry. If I were to invest larger and larger $$$ in audio, I would want to follow horns and low power amplifiers. Possibly Clarissa.

I would have thrown Taiko to the curb if I were a dealer of the product. Simply for ethical reasons. You don't take people money if you know you can't ship. I know others that privately told me Taiko is a mess and hosed them too. I'm disappointed they act so unethically. I want to like the little guy. At least a manufacturer like Decware is upfront that its going to take 3 years to get your product. And they only take 10% or something like that to get inline.

All totally valid points for sure.

I would only suggest one possible edit: yes it's their forum but they need to simply be honest and transparent on how they conduct business. Pretending to be an open forum when they are far from it is laughable.

I'm hearing from current sponsors who are pissed with what is being uncovered on how WBF operates and that affects them and what they thought they were getting.

If WBF admitted their financial gain in their shill posts rather than pretending it's innocuous (remember when Steve posted "I'm only sharing my personal thoughts and get nothing out of [heavily pimping and shilling] for this brand") it would be honest and transparent. And them partnering up with the industry's biggest known shill recently to tag-team on promoting the newest flavor of the month is so obvious it's like a bad movie.

They just need to be honest.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

My issue, that I’ve made very clear, is the secret shilling. Frankly, if you’re buying anything on the shilling of SW, you deserve what you get. LOL. But the others acting covertly is my issue. I’ve had customers get burned when they say “oh person X posted 900 times about it, I bought it and it was terrible.” I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: you can spot a secret shill a mile away when they make 297 posts on multiple forums. Most people get a new piece and make a couple or 3 posts and that’s it. Any more and you are either bragging or a shill. It just stinks to high heaven when one person in particular gets products and somehow makes dozens and dozens and dozens of posts about it. Waxing poetically about the most mundane thing, it’s a shill.

ok, let's talk about that "297" post thread you and others have referenced multiple times as some sort of evidence of excess.

at this point it is on post #315. it is not my thread, it is a manufacturers thread in the manufacturers forum paid for by that manufacturer. i did not start it. when it started i had had no contact about the product. on various topics i posted 24 times on the first 194 posts. much of it politics of the forum, not the product. on post 195 i posted that the amps arrived. then posted 30 times after that up to post 315.

it's a new product, there is much interest. obviously has the forum in a tizzy on many levels. my part is only one of many discussed. i did not start a new thread since so far it is a home demo trial, i don't own the amps.

i'm not going to judge what i did or did not do as my viewpoint won't matter here. but at least we can see just what actually happened on that thread now for the record.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

ok, let's talk about that "297" post thread you and others have referenced multiple times as some sort of evidence of excess.

at this point it is on post #315. it is not my thread, it is a manufacturers thread in the manufacturers forum paid for by that manufacturer. i did not start it. when it started i had had no contact about the product. on various topics i posted 24 times on the first 194 posts. much of it politics of the forum, not the product. on post 195 i posted that the amps arrived. then posted 30 times after that up to post 315.

it's a new product, there is much interest. obviously has the forum in a tizzy on many levels. my part is only one of many discussed. i did not start a new thread since so far it is a home demo trial, i don't own the amps.

i'm not going to judge what i did or did not do as my viewpoint won't matter here. but at least we can see just what actually happened on that thread now for the record.

Do you mean shill-manufactured interest manipulating the perception there is "a lot of interest" with *30* (!!!)
posts about a product and the forum owner also getting in on manufacturing the "interest?"

 

[Mike]

ok, let's talk about that "297" post thread you and others have referenced multiple times as some sort of evidence of excess.

at this point it is on post #315. it is not my thread, it is a manufacturers thread in the manufacturers forum paid for by that manufacturer. i did not start it. when it started i had had no contact about the product. on various topics i posted 24 times on the first 194 posts. much of it politics of the forum, not the product. on post 195 i posted that the amps arrived. then posted 30 times after that up to post 315.

it's a new product, there is much interest. obviously has the forum in a tizzy on many levels. my part is only one of many discussed. i did not start a new thread since so far it is a home demo trial, i don't own the amps.

i'm not going to judge what i did or did not do as my viewpoint won't matter here. but at least we can see just what actually happened on that thread now for the record.

It’s a completely unknown product from a brand of bygone years known for portable R2R decks, not amps. “In name only” most certainly applies here. The shills are the ones creating a false manufactured “tizzy”, not an actual group of legitimate passionate owners. Legitimate buyers of amps at this level tend not to go on and on and on about them documenting every flick of a switch or connection of a cable.

Hundreds of other industries use influencers. There is nothing wrong with that. Some combine influencers with discounts for customers. Everything is out in the open and it’s still very successful. Here is an example from the automotive world:

He’s not secretly shilling for Fabspeed. If a customer likes it, they can get a 10% discount. Highly effective. Open and honest.

 

[Kingrex]

ok, let's talk about that "297" post thread you and others have referenced multiple times as some sort of evidence of excess.

at this point it is on post #315. it is not my thread, it is a manufacturers thread in the manufacturers forum paid for by that manufacturer. i did not start it. when it started i had had no contact about the product. on various topics i posted 24 times on the first 194 posts. much of it politics of the forum, not the product. on post 195 i posted that the amps arrived. then posted 30 times after that up to post 315.

it's a new product, there is much interest. obviously has the forum in a tizzy on many levels. my part is only one of many discussed. i did not start a new thread since so far it is a home demo trial, i don't own the amps.

i'm not going to judge what i did or did not do as my viewpoint won't matter here. but at least we can see just what actually happened on that thread now for the record.

I don't see why people go after you Mike. Your one of the most prolific members that has simply shared your path for many years. We are lucky to hear and learn from what you have to say. And even more blessed that you have been so open with your audio room, allowing many people to come and listen for themselves. There is no secret veil with the content you present.

I personally could care less about what gets promoted on WBF or any forum for that matter. The growth of a thread is mostly organic from interest by members. I could care less what special pricing owners of the forum or members who are well knows get. That's their business. I myself have been offered dealer pricing by manufacturer from time to time.

The issue I have is when manufacturer are screwing clients and the forum owners shut down and delete comments or whole threads to allow deceitful business to prosper and harm other unknowing customers. That in my mind is wrong. It goes deeper than Taiko. Another beloved manufacturer has had a fair share of construction quality issues that have caused owners a lot of distress and lost time enjoying the product as its sent to and from repair facilities. Said owner have privately warned me to stay away, but ask to remain anonymous as Steve may ban them, and the fan boy club will maliciously attack. They say it's not worth it. unfortunately, the byer is on their own. I believe that is a black eye on WBF management.