Why no turntable? - Page 49
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  1. #481
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    https://www.analogplanet.com/content...-19-advisory-0


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  2. #482
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    When you convert Analog to Digital and back to Analog, something is lost since decisions and trade offs have to be made regarding bit and sample rates, among other reasons. Also, there wouldn’t be varying degrees of ADC’s and DAC’s, a $99 unit on each end would suffice, but we know there are better quality ADC’s and DAC’s. When you stay in the analog domain throughout the chain, the sound is more pure IMO. That being said, modern digital recordings throw a monkey wrench in things, as does the constant improvement in ADC’s, DAC’s, higher bit and sampling rates and also, storage capabilities and formats.

    That being said, let’s get back to the topic at hand.

    Here is a turntable I’m jonesing for...




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    Of course, practical implementation is always lagging behind theory, which is what I also alluded to in my previous post. Because of limits of practical implementation a $ 99 ADC or DAC will not be good enough.

    I might have been more explicit in this, but I was talking about digital theory, and even with just the Nyquist sampling rate you don't lose information in the audible range -- if practical implementation were theoretically perfect (which it isn't, even though it's getting better and better).

    Digital skeptics maintain that even the theory is wrong, that you lose information in the audible range no matter what, even if practical implementation were perfect. But that is not true.

    ***

    Regarding practical implementation vinyl of course also has its limits, not just on the component level, but also on the LP "software" side itself. While the best LP pressings can sound stellar, there are many mediocre pressings that will never sound great and at best will sound "good", even on the most fantastic turntable. Please let's not pretend that on a great vinyl rig everything sounds amazing. It doesn't. Just like on a great digital rig not everything sounds amazing.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  3. #483
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Bud, when you hear a mono record with a proper mono cartridge, the difference is profound. The soundstage literally doubles in width. My old jazz records like the mono cart!


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    I read someplace originally Ďstereoí mono was three channel. I bet that does sound awesome.
    Bud

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  4. #484
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    When you convert Analog to Digital and back to Analog, something is lost since decisions and trade offs have to be made regarding bit and sample rates, among other reasons. Also, there wouldnít be varying degrees of ADCís and DACís, a $99 unit on each end would suffice, but we know there are better quality ADCís and DACís. When you stay in the analog domain throughout the chain, the sound is more pure IMO. That being said, modern digital recordings throw a monkey wrench in things, as does the constant improvement in ADCís, DACís, higher bit and sampling rates and also, storage capabilities and formats.

    That being said, letís get back to the topic at hand.

    Here is a turntable Iím jonesing for...




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    It is killer!


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    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R with 4point 9 arm & Kuzma 40 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan DíAgostino Momentum Pre Amp and Monos | Boulder Phono 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Valhalla 2/Odin: power, interconnects & speaker | Ansuz: C2 power & interconnect | Audioquest Diamond RJ45ís
    Power: Nordost QRT series | Furutech FP55SN cable from 20 amp breakers to Furutech GTX D NSF packages | Keces P3 & P8 | ADD POWR series | Environmental Potential EP2050
    Other: HRS M3X | Stillpoints Ultra 6, SS & Mini | Nordost Sort Cones TC & BC | AQ Vox SE switch | etherREGEN | Gigafoil v4 | Vicoustics | Audio Desk Systeme - Glšss








  5. #485
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    I did not add a turntable cause I thought it would compete against digital - I simply wanted another source.

    It doesnít have to be about price, Iím not sold on price, meaning if your maximizing the level your playing on there is nothing wrong with that. This will tell you where you need to go to obtain higher levels of sound as Rex just pointed out from his efforts.

    In terms of playback, Lavigne taught me when you select the right recording and play it native to its source, it should be very clear the difference between vinyl and digital and like MEP indicated if you canít hear this then itís your hearing or a bad setup no matter the cost, and they do exist, sad as it may be.

    I enjoy both analog and digital very much, cost be damned!







    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R with 4point 9 arm & Kuzma 40 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan DíAgostino Momentum Pre Amp and Monos | Boulder Phono 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Valhalla 2/Odin: power, interconnects & speaker | Ansuz: C2 power & interconnect | Audioquest Diamond RJ45ís
    Power: Nordost QRT series | Furutech FP55SN cable from 20 amp breakers to Furutech GTX D NSF packages | Keces P3 & P8 | ADD POWR series | Environmental Potential EP2050
    Other: HRS M3X | Stillpoints Ultra 6, SS & Mini | Nordost Sort Cones TC & BC | AQ Vox SE switch | etherREGEN | Gigafoil v4 | Vicoustics | Audio Desk Systeme - Glšss








  6. Thanks Kuoppis thanked for this post
    Likes Kuoppis, Mike, a.wayne, Mike Lavigne liked this post
  7. #486
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Nail dragging big CD’s can be a great thing ....!

  8. #487
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lavigne View Post
    i think if you spend much time playing 'big' music in a 'big' system it is easy to very consistently hear vinyl easily sort out detail and maintain cohesion on peaks.......compared to the relative slight congestion of digital. this is particularly true of the little flairs and nuance when the sound stage is very active. and these details have more definition and energy with vinyl. they have tonal shading missing with digital. there is air and weight with vinyl. the vinyl media has information headroom that the better vinyl playback systems can reveal.
    Except that on 'big' music all this can be explained by a limited dynamic headroom on LP. Lower level events at peaks or outside of them are simply made more audible due to dynamic compression because they are relatively louder. It then is an artifact.

    One time I heard a large orchestral piece on an LP and was flabbergasted by all the detail and tone. I then ordered the CD of the same recording and it was FAR more dynamic than the LP (while other orchestral LPs on the system I heard this recording on were considerably more dynamic than this one). The dynamics on the CD were killer and a thrill, but at the same time I was disappointed that I heard so much less timbral detail, tone and energy in the softer passages. But these were really much softer than on the LP.

    It was very obvious that on the LP the extra vividness and tonal life in the soft passages was simply a result of these passages being much louder than on the CD due to highly evident dynamic compression, thus the result of an artifact. Overall, due to its much better dynamics, the CD sounded much more realistic.

    While the severe dynamic compression on this LP particularly highlighted the artifact, it will be present to some extent also on less dynamically compressed LPs of 'big' music. Dynamics on LP are best on smaller scale music, where they can be truly explosive without having to conquer a huge overall dynamic range.
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  9. #488
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    Except that on 'big' music all this can be explained by a limited dynamic headroom on LP. Lower level events at peaks or outside of them are simply made more audible due to dynamic compression because they are relatively louder. It then is an artifact.

    One time I heard a large orchestral piece on an LP and was flabbergasted by all the detail and tone. I then ordered the CD of the same recording and it was FAR more dynamic than the LP (while other orchestral LPs on the system I heard this recording on were considerably more dynamic than this one). The dynamics on the CD were killer and a thrill, but at the same time I was disappointed that I heard so much less timbral detail, tone and energy in the softer passages. But these were really much softer than on the LP.

    It was very obvious that on the LP the extra vividness and tonal life in the soft passages was simply a result of these passages being much louder than on the CD due to highly evident dynamic compression, thus the result of an artifact. Overall, due to its much better dynamics, the CD sounded much more realistic.

    While the severe dynamic compression on this LP particularly highlighted the artifact, it will be present to some extent also on less dynamically compressed LPs of 'big' music. Dynamics on LP are best on smaller scale music, where they can be truly explosive without having to conquer a huge overall dynamic range.
    What LP?
    What CD?

    Some more information would be helpful for those reading.

  10. #489
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dre_J View Post
    What LP?
    What CD?

    Some more information would be helpful for those reading.
    Sure, Mahler Symphony #3 with LA Phil/Mehta.

    LP:

    https://www.discogs.com/Mahler-Zubin...elease/3770626

    CD:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000423D/
    Simaudio Moon Neo 260 DT CD Transport / MIT SL-Matrix Plus AES/EBU digital cable / Schiit Yggdrasil Analog 2 DAC / Octave HP 700 preamp / Octave RE 320 stereo amp with Super Black Box / Reference 3A Reflector monitors on Sound Anchors Signature Stands / dual JL Audio Fathom 112 v2 subwoofers on ASC SubTraps / ZenWave Audio D4 and SMSG cables / Acoustic treatment: tube traps, Tri-panels, window plugs, ceiling diffusers (all ASC), large absorbing panels (Acoustics First), diverse carpets chosen for acoustic properties: wool, polypropylene basket-weave

  11. #490
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    Re: Why no turntable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al M. View Post
    preferred track/movement?

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