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  1. #1

  2. #2
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Nope. I love my Niagara 5000’s. Great linear noise reduction. Totally neutral sonically. Outstanding dynamics. Tremendously transparent when used in conjunction with the Dragon Power Cords. No desire to try anything else.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  3. #3
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    I've only dumped one power conditioner - a PS Audio one. Physically noisy (it buzzed) and apparently no improvement to sound quality.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845 monoblocs
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006 - aesthetically modified), Martin Logan Expression 13A (now sold)

  4. #4
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    I've only dumped one power conditioner - a PS Audio one. Physically noisy (it buzzed) and apparently no improvement to sound quality.
    If you still have it, and you willing to apply some effort, you should consider trying it in a different room or a friends house to see if it still buzzes.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
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    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
    Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS









  5. #5
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by UltraFast69 View Post
    If you still have it, and you willing to apply some effort, you should consider trying it in a different room or a friends house to see if it still buzzes.
    Long since ditched, but used in 2 rooms and at 2 homes. Luckily I could return it to the dealer, but attitude from PSA at the time not helpful. This was many years ago, but my view of PSA has stuck and not helped by it's owner's way of doing business.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845 monoblocs
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006 - aesthetically modified), Martin Logan Expression 13A (now sold)

  6. #6
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    Long since ditched, but used in 2 rooms and at 2 homes. Luckily I could return it to the dealer, but attitude from PSA at the time not helpful. This was many years ago, but my view of PSA has stuck and not helped by it's owner's way of doing business.
    Got it, at least you were able to return it. On goes the march Anyone dumping their power conditiner?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
    Amplification: Dan D’Agostino Momentum HD and M400’s | Boulder 508
    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
    Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS









  7. #7
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Everest 8000 w/Omega XC is what I’m looking for in a power conditioner.

    My Niagra 5000 is in the HT and perfect for that system as it has 12 outlets and a top quality product.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  8. #8
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Nope. I love my Niagara 5000’s. Great linear noise reduction. Totally neutral sonically. Outstanding dynamics. Tremendously transparent when used in conjunction with the Dragon Power Cords. No desire to try anything else.

    Ken
    Agreed on the Niagara 5000. Mine isn't going anywhere.
    Morgan

    SPEAKERS KEF Blade 2
    SUBWOOFERS Four DIY Speaker Hardware 12" passive subs driven by Dayton SA1000 amp
    AMPLIFICATION Pass Labs X350.8, Cary SLP-05 w/Ultimate Upgrade
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    VINYL EAT C-Sharp, Hana SL, EAT E-Glo S w/LPS, Bob's Devices Sky 20 SUT
    POWER AudioQuest Niagara 5000, two dedicated circuits
    WIRES AudioQuest William Tell, Earth, Leopard, Tornado
    RESONANCE/ISOLATION Nordost Sort Kones, various Herbie's Audio Lab

  9. #9

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Love my Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE.
    Anthony
    Analog: VPI CLASSIC 3/Ortofon A95> ASR Basis Exclusive HV---->

    Digital: Antipodes CX> CARY DMS-600 DAC/Streamer---->
    ...........Cary 306 SACD PRO Disc Player---->

    ===> Cary SLP-05 (Ultimate Upgrade edition)----> Clayton M-300----> MARTIN LOGAN SPIRES

    [Synergistic Research/Nordost/Wireworld/Furutech/SRA/Adona/Stillpoints/Track Audio/GIK Acoustics]

  10. #10
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    I had a MIT Z Stabilizer way back in the early 90s and also thought,at least for a while. it made everything better.
    It did shave off more than noise though...kind of like the analogy of using a sledgehammer to kill a fly!
    I think PC's have drastically improved since then.

    Accuphase A-75, C-3850, DP-750, T-1200, C-37, P-530 / Magico S7, Mcoat Red w/Mpod / Synergistic Research Galileo SX Sp. Cables, Interconnects, Atmosphere X Euphoria PC's/ Clearaudio Innovation Wood, 9" Universal arm ,VTA adj. Outer Limit platter ring, Statement record clamp w/My Sonic Lab Ultra Eminent GX, Clearaudio Da Vinci V2 / Clearaudio Smart Power 24V Battery PSU / Synergistic Research PowerCell Galileo SX w/Galileo SRX PC, Active Ground Block SE w/high def cables, Black Box . Acoustic ART Vibratron ,Atmosphere Infinity w/Green ATM ,UEF Acoustic Dots ,UEF Acoustic Panels / Furutech GTX-D NCF outlets, GTX wall plate, NCF 105.1D outlet covers, NCF Booster. Flux-50 NCF / 20a dedicated lines / SteinMusic H2 Harmonizers / Stillpoints Aperture II panels / HighEnd Novum PMR Mk.II/ Akiko Audio Corelli PLC, Phono Booster / Adona Eris 5C rack, Multi Element platforms / Symposium Acoustics Svelt Shelves, Precision Couplers, / KLAudio Ultrasonic RCM / Clearaudio Smart Matrix Pro. RCM

  11. #11
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    I will never ditch my Shunyata power conditioner! It does a lot for my sound. Anyone that claims otherwise needs to get a more resolving system or a new set of ears
    --Marc

  12. #12

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
    I will never ditch my Shunyata power conditioner! It does a lot for my sound. Anyone that claims otherwise needs to get a more resolving system or a new set of ears
    Classic. That is the "checkmate" audiophile statement after which there is usually silence. If it was only that simple...
    Serge

  13. #13
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
    I will never ditch my Shunyata power conditioner! It does a lot for my sound. Anyone that claims otherwise needs to get a more resolving system or a new set of ears
    I agree.
    Bud

    Lumin X1 file player
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    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  14. #14
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Classic. That is the "checkmate" audiophile statement after which there is usually silence. If it was only that simple...
    I would agree with Marc that the Everest's capabilities were readily apparent to me. I also agree with you that one might refrain from questioning an others hearing in an open forum. There are plenty of times I may have thought this over the years but "normally" keep my fingers off the keyboard.
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's & HD Pre-amp
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    Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
    Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
    Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest

  15. #15
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by still-one View Post
    I would agree with Marc that the Everest's capabilities were readily apparent to me. I also agree with you that one might refrain from questioning an others hearing in an open forum. There are plenty of times I may have thought this over the years but "normally" keep my fingers off the keyboard.
    I guess I need to work on my restraint!
    --Marc

  16. #16
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
    I guess I need to work on my restraint!
    Ir's not that I don't agree.
    Jim

    D'Agostino Momentum M-400's & HD Pre-amp
    Wilson Alexandria X2 Series 2 speakers
    Digital: dCS Vivaldi DAC, Clock & Upsampler
    Analog: SME 20/3 with Esoteric E-03 Phono
    Transparent Opus Speaker Cable & Interconnects & Opus Power Cords
    Power Cords on Digital: Shunyata
    Power Conditioner - Shunyata Everest

  17. #17
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    I dumped these two for the following reasons:

    Equi=Tech 2Q - The Niagara 7000 was better in my system.

    Niagara 7000 - Two reasons: It buzzed annoyingly at times and while I was able to eliminate most of it, eventually the buzz came back where I couldn't take it anymore. The GigaWatt PC-4 EVO+ was/is better in my system and it doesn't buzz!

    Still running and happy with the Gigawatt PC-4 EVO+
    Anthony

    Front End:
    MSB Reference DAC/MSB Reference Transport/Femto 33 Clock, Magnum Dynalab MD107T, Aiwa AD-F990
    Amplification: Dan D'Agostino Momentum HD Preamplifier & Momentum M400 Monoblocks, Crown XLS 2502 (x3) (subwoofers)
    Speakers: Scaena La Maitresse Ultime Loudspeaker System
    Cables: Shunyata Aeros Aurora-SP, Shunyata Aeros Aurora-IC, Jungson Golden Dragon
    Power: GigaWatt PC-4 EVO+, Shunyata King Cobra CX, Jungson Pure Power, JPS Labs AC+, Transparent HPPC
    Miscellaneous: ​Bohmer/Legacy Audio Wavelet DSP/Room Correction

  18. #18

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Since I am always curious about how the mind works, if one "heard" a clear improvement yet read 100 others saying that product is junk, how long does it take before doubt sets in?
    Serge

  19. #19
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
    I will never ditch my Shunyata power conditioner! It does a lot for my sound. Anyone that claims otherwise needs to get a more resolving system or a new set of ears
    Which model is it ?

  20. #20
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Since I am always curious about how the mind works, if one "heard" a clear improvement yet read 100 others saying that product is junk, how long does it take before doubt sets in?
    maybe it depends on the persons residence, be it an apartment, condo, home that you own and the condition the power and its ground is at the unit/home. A renter can't do anything to their power outside of the unit, pretty much the same for a condo owner when multiple units are connected and the group shares the same power feed into the unit. We don't know whom in the groups is a renter, or owns a single unit condo or owns their own home. A power conditioner might be able to provide some improvement in those cases. Its a mater of a persons perception. And or, a person having some weird feelings about taking a huge loss on a $4000 + power conditioner if it doesn't do a darn thing and they have to try to sell it.

  21. #21
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
    I guess I need to work on my restraint!
    Hmmm, maybe it is just me but I do not think I saw anyone questioning anyone else's ears here .

    BTW- I play on a different level but I am happy with my Niagara 1000.
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  22. #22
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by CPP View Post
    Which model is it ?
    Denali 6000s v2.

    Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
    --Marc

  23. #23

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Hmmm, maybe it is just me but I do not think I saw anyone questioning anyone else's ears here .

    BTW- I play on a different level but I am happy with my Niagara 1000.
    Did you miss this:

    “I will never ditch my Shunyata power conditioner! It does a lot for my sound. Anyone that claims otherwise needs to get a more resolving system or a new set of ears”
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  24. #24
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Did you miss this:

    “I will never ditch my Shunyata power conditioner! It does a lot for my sound. Anyone that claims otherwise needs to get a more resolving system or a new set of ears”
    I was using tongue in cheek because he had not actually said that specific to anyone but instead was using a generic phrase .
    Hattor; T+A; Bel Canto; McIntosh; Rega; Technics; SimAudio; Magnepan; Rythmik; Astell & Kern; Abyss

    "You are entitled to your opinions but you are not entitled to your own facts"

  25. #25
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Did you miss this:

    “I will never ditch my Shunyata power conditioner! It does a lot for my sound. Anyone that claims otherwise needs to get a more resolving system or a new set of ears”
    Why did you leave the Smiley ( ) off of the quote? Your misquote changes the context, and makes it different than what was written and intended.
    Bud

    Lumin X1 file player
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  26. #26

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Why did you leave the Smiley ( ) off of the quote? Your misquote changes the context, and makes it different than what was written and intended.
    Smiley faces can have double meanings too Bud. Just because you put a smiley face on words you used doesn't mean you don't believe what you just wrote.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  27. #27
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Everest 8000 w/Omega XC is what I’m looking for in a power conditioner.
    Mike

    PS Audio P20 vs Shunyata Everest 8000? I know you've heard both.

    Any limitations to the current draw on the Everest? I have to run two MSB beast amps, two Magico beast subs plus my Select II from the same 20 amp outlet. If I don't I get a nasty ground loop / buzz that I could never fix.

    Anyone else have experience with both?

    Eric
    MSB Select II DAC
    MSB M500 Monoblocks
    Magico M3 Speakers
    Magico Q-Sub 15 subwoofers
    Transparent Opus Gen5 speaker cables and interconnects
    PS Audio P20 Re generator

  28. #28

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
    I will never ditch my Shunyata power conditioner! It does a lot for my sound.
    Likewise.

    Everest 8000 is a veritable breakthrough for a power distributor.

  29. #29

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cincy2 View Post
    Mike

    PS Audio P20 vs Shunyata Everest 8000? I know you've heard both.

    Any limitations to the current draw on the Everest? I have to run two MSB beast amps, two Magico beast subs plus my Select II from the same 20 amp outlet. If I don't I get a nasty ground loop / buzz that I could never fix.

    Anyone else have experience with both?

    Eric
    Everest 8000 has a 30 Amp current limit. No heat and no buzz.

  30. #30
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cincy2 View Post
    Mike

    PS Audio P20 vs Shunyata Everest 8000? I know you've heard both.

    Any limitations to the current draw on the Everest? I have to run two MSB beast amps, two Magico beast subs plus my Select II from the same 20 amp outlet. If I don't I get a nasty ground loop / buzz that I could never fix.

    Anyone else have experience with both?

    Eric
    Hi Eric,

    You have a wonderful system, top of the line all the way. Are you satisfied with your P20? If so, then why consider changing?

    Best,
    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  31. #31
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Hi Eric,

    You have a wonderful system, top of the line all the way. Are you satisfied with your P20? If so, then why consider changing?

    Best,
    Ken
    Ken

    This is truly an insightful question and goes to the root cause of our (my) disease. I alway wonder if the system could be better..whether I'm satisfied (which I am) or not.

    Eric
    MSB Select II DAC
    MSB M500 Monoblocks
    Magico M3 Speakers
    Magico Q-Sub 15 subwoofers
    Transparent Opus Gen5 speaker cables and interconnects
    PS Audio P20 Re generator

  32. #32

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cincy2 View Post
    Mike

    PS Audio P20 vs Shunyata Everest 8000? I know you've heard both.

    Any limitations to the current draw on the Everest? I have to run two MSB beast amps, two Magico beast subs plus my Select II from the same 20 amp outlet. If I don't I get a nasty ground loop / buzz that I could never fix.

    Anyone else have experience with both?

    Eric
    I haven't heard a P20, but I know that the owner of another large audio forum had all PS Audio P20s in all his systems, and replaced virtually all of them with Denali V2s because he said they were clearly superior.

    And...many members in that forum that also had P10s and P20s and they also sold them, and replaced them with Denalis and Everest power distributors, and they're really happy with them.

    The Denali V2 is a superb PD; Everest is on another level altogether.

  33. #33
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cincy2 View Post
    Mike

    PS Audio P20 vs Shunyata Everest 8000? I know you've heard both.

    Any limitations to the current draw on the Everest? I have to run two MSB beast amps, two Magico beast subs plus my Select II from the same 20 amp outlet. If I don't I get a nasty ground loop / buzz that I could never fix.

    Anyone else have experience with both?

    Eric
    The subs are no problem. The amps can plug into the 8000 too and we should try direct into the wall if possible. I think the 8000/XC is outstanding and really releases the music.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Audio Research, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Ayre Acoustics, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, EMM Labs, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Gryphon Audio, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  34. #34
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cincy2 View Post
    Mike

    PS Audio P20 vs Shunyata Everest 8000? I know you've heard both.

    Any limitations to the current draw on the Everest? I have to run two MSB beast amps, two Magico beast subs plus my Select II from the same 20 amp outlet. If I don't I get a nasty ground loop / buzz that I could never fix.

    Anyone else have experience with both?

    Eric
    I don't but I replaced my P10 with the Denali 6000s V2. There was no comparison, the Shunyata put my system on steroids. Everything was better: resolution, sound stage, bass, transients, everything. I am scared to try the Everest, but i am sure it will be in my future.
    --Marc

  35. #35
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    The Ansuz Mainz 8 DTC power distributor I put in my system in 2019 greatly improved the sound dynamics and articulation. Ansuz offers four price levels of these power distributors: Mainz 8 A2, C2, D2, DTC.

    Ansuz dislikes power conditioners based on transformers, capacitors, and inductors. Instead of filtering AC, their open coils attenuate the peaks of transients atop the 50/60Hz wave to soften the HF spikes and change the shape of the noise. A transient in a coil creates a current which the counter-rotating coil cancels.
    D2 Mainz8 & Mainz loom
    ________________________________
    Len
    Acoustic Frontiers Acoustic Design; Raidho D3; JL Audio F212v2; EMM Labs DV2; EMM Labs XDS1v2 (transport); JL Audio CR-1; Ansuz Mainz8 D-TC; JRDG 625s2; Solidtech ROS; Nordost & Ansuz cabling & resonance control.
    http://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5013

  36. #36

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Back in the day, I've often fussed over power conditioners. Isolation transformer types, passive, active, active with battery packs for better transient response, power regenerator types... I've read all about the theories, the power correction factors, the stored potential and collapsing fields in big transformers inducing "juice" back into the circuits as the transients would "sag" the power lines... Bologna!

    Never once did I find the AC to be so bad as to actually hear much of a difference. In the house where I ran dedicated 20 amp circuits for the dedicated listening/theater room with 7.2 and tons of amps and monstrous subs, I also could not hear any difference but still kept them around.

    I still use them to this day but it is a very simple, well built unit from a manufacturer who designs and sells many of highest quality toroidal transformers to other "players" in the field. It offers protection and isolates from noise. That's all. I still do not hear a difference between IT and straight to the wall with my humble Luxman and Harbeth. I guess I need a better system and better ears as it is popular to point out among the audiophiles. But I am just a 30 plus year scholar of audio and music appreciation. I have much to learn evidently
    Serge

  37. #37
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Back in the day, I've often fussed over power conditioners. Isolation transformer types, passive, active, active with battery packs for better transient response, power regenerator types...
    Back in the day was a time when Power Conditioners did a lot of harm. There is some cutting edge technology that has come about recently with Shunyata, Add Power Nordost and Ansuz.
    First Sound Mark3SI preamp. Audion Black Shadow 845 SET Monoblocks. Mojo Audio Deja Vu Server. Mojo Audio Mystic 3 DAC. Linear Solution Ethernet Switch. Gigafoil with LPS. STST Motus II TT with Vertere SG1 arm, Hana ML Cartridge, Allnic H1201 phono pre. Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Horn speakers with Mundord Supreme oil caps. Power via 10 awg OFC cord from panel to custom distribution strip feeding front end. Steel pipe with dedicated10 AWG branch circuits split bolted to power cords per each amp. Inakustik speaker and interconnect cables, Genesis Interconnect.

  38. #38

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    Back in the day, I've often fussed over power conditioners. Isolation transformer types, passive, active, active with battery packs for better transient response, power regenerator types... I've read all about the theories, the power correction factors, the stored potential and collapsing fields in big transformers inducing "juice" back into the circuits as the transients would "sag" the power lines... Bologna!

    Never once did I find the AC to be so bad as to actually hear much of a difference. In the house where I ran dedicated 20 amp circuits for the dedicated listening/theater room with 7.2 and tons of amps and monstrous subs, I also could not hear any difference but still kept them around.

    I still use them to this day but it is a very simple, well built unit from a manufacturer who designs and sells many of highest quality toroidal transformers to other "players" in the field. It offers protection and isolates from noise. That's all. I still do not hear a difference between IT and straight to the wall with my humble Luxman and Harbeth. I guess I need a better system and better ears as it is popular to point out among the audiophiles. But I am just a 30 plus year scholar of audio and music appreciation. I have much to learn evidently
    We should never be done learning...

    While some noise comes from AC Mains (you can watch this video of the AM radio on mine:Shunyata Research Venom 14 Digital power cord demonstration - YouTube ), a large proportion of the noise in our systems comes from the components themselves: from the full wave bridge rectifiers in the power supplies of our components, most notably the power amps.

    From an article Caelin wrote some years back:
    "Most components use FWBR (full wave bridge rectifier) power supplies that generate an incredible amount of transient noise when the rectifiers switch off. The design of a power cable can significantly affect the reactance of these signals within the power supply. The power cable is effectively part of the primary winding of the power transformer. The transition between the various metals used in a power cable and its connectors can cause electromagnetic reflections and diode-like rectification of the noise impulses as they propagate away from the power supply. If the power cable presents a high impedance to these signals they will be reflected back into the power supply where they will intermodulate, thus increasing the high frequency noise levels of the component. Most power supply filters are ineffective at blocking very high frequency noise components and much of it is passed through to the DC rails. The sonic effects of this include: high background noise levels, blurred or slurred transients and a general lack of clarity and purity of the sound or visual image.”

  39. #39
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    We should never be done learning...

    , a large proportion of the noise in our systems comes from the components themselves: from the full wave bridge rectifiers in the power supplies of our components, most notably the power amps.

    ”[/I]
    A big reason why I tell everyone to put their amps on a separate branch circuit. Even better monoblocks on their own circuit. And yet I still get told 1 circuit is best.
    First Sound Mark3SI preamp. Audion Black Shadow 845 SET Monoblocks. Mojo Audio Deja Vu Server. Mojo Audio Mystic 3 DAC. Linear Solution Ethernet Switch. Gigafoil with LPS. STST Motus II TT with Vertere SG1 arm, Hana ML Cartridge, Allnic H1201 phono pre. Pure Audio Project Trio 15 Horn speakers with Mundord Supreme oil caps. Power via 10 awg OFC cord from panel to custom distribution strip feeding front end. Steel pipe with dedicated10 AWG branch circuits split bolted to power cords per each amp. Inakustik speaker and interconnect cables, Genesis Interconnect.

  40. #40

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    We should never be done learning...

    While some noise comes from AC Mains (you can watch this video of the AM radio on mine:Shunyata Research Venom 14 Digital power cord demonstration - YouTube ), a large proportion of the noise in our systems comes from the components themselves: from the full wave bridge rectifiers in the power supplies of our components, most notably the power amps.

    From an article Caelin wrote some years back:
    "Most components use FWBR (full wave bridge rectifier) power supplies that generate an incredible amount of transient noise when the rectifiers switch off. The design of a power cable can significantly affect the reactance of these signals within the power supply. The power cable is effectively part of the primary winding of the power transformer. The transition between the various metals used in a power cable and its connectors can cause electromagnetic reflections and diode-like rectification of the noise impulses as they propagate away from the power supply. If the power cable presents a high impedance to these signals they will be reflected back into the power supply where they will intermodulate, thus increasing the high frequency noise levels of the component. Most power supply filters are ineffective at blocking very high frequency noise components and much of it is passed through to the DC rails. The sonic effects of this include: high background noise levels, blurred or slurred transients and a general lack of clarity and purity of the sound or visual image.”
    That all sounds great and I enjoy reading white papers that contradict other white papers from others, etc.. It all makes for very entertaining discussions. Keeping in mind that precision instruments capable of reaching -130dB of noise floor, (way beyond our hearing limits) accurately and beyond are not plugged into a power conditioner... and are relying on the same rectification as our audio gear for the most part.

    I find amusing and entertaining as various manufacturers are always pointing out flaws in other designs in the obvious wrestling match for your buck.

    I do not and have not experienced slurred or blurred transients, not in my D'Agostino amps which I did not run on power conditioners and not on my tube amp today. The sharpness and my system's transient response of Niels Lofgren's guitar chords are as lightning fast as they were in my previous systems, with and without power conditioners.

    My lights do not dim with each kick of the kick drum on Rush's La Villa Strangiato (arguably number 1 drum rock performance) and they never did with any system. The 1800 or 2400 watts of power available from a household outlet in either 15 or 20 amp variety was always more than any of my amps could draw, even transiently.

    I personally do not have anything against them. If you believe, see, hear, feel, taste, smell, something with (insert your favorite here) then so be it. I think in the end it buys a peace of mind that you have added another expensive component to ensure maximum performance from your investment into other components.

    For me, it is much simpler. I use a Balanced power conditioner that offers high efficiency, toroidal, (not EI) isolation transformer. It does not shunt voltage spikes to ground but absorbs it and provides surge suppression that is resettable. All the grunge if it ever existed and would get filtered out by the power supply anyways, will stop right there at this point.

    But more importantly, it is useful because it is Balanced and offers Under Voltage Protection (brown outs) and Over Voltage Protection.

    As far as Balanced: It is of the CMR philosophy. Since balanced power, the voltages are of opposite polarity, given that most interference in a typical AC line
    is common between the two lines, the noise in the lines is eliminated when the two lines are added together. This is effectively known as
    Common Mode Rejection (CMR).

    What else may exist beyond this very affordable and solidly engineered product by a company that supplies virtually the whole world with their products, is the rarified air that I will never breathe because I just don't find anything lacking in my system with or without it or any other expensive passive or active conditioner or even a regenerator. Neither my amps nor my AC circuits are complaining. My ears do not disagree either.
    Serge

  41. #41
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    If I was starting from scratch, I might give the Everest/Omega XC a try. But with the money I have invested in AudioQuest Dragon Power Cords, which I absolutely love the sound of, I wouldn’t risk going off the AQ reservation with the Everest Power Conditioner.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  42. #42
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    [QUOTE=TheOctopus;317094I just don't find anything lacking in my system with or without it or any other expensive passive or active conditioner or even a regenerator. Neither my amps nor my AC circuits are complaining. My ears do not disagree either.[/QUOTE]

    Serg is lucky. He's done. I'm pretty happy too, but I'm always aware what is improving in the industry and thoughtful about whether it's time to adopt new technology. Things are better today, such as power conditioners. Speaker technology as well as crossovers and cabinetry has come a long way. Class D is starting to shine. Lots is going on. At this time I have some simple Add Power components but they brought a world of improvement to my already excellent foundational power.

  43. #43

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post
    Serg is lucky. He's done. I'm pretty happy too, but I'm always aware what is improving in the industry and thoughtful about whether it's time to adopt new technology. Things are better today, such as power conditioners. Speaker technology as well as crossovers and cabinetry has come a long way. Class D is starting to shine. Lots is going on. At this time I have some simple Add Power components but they brought a world of improvement to my already excellent foundational power.
    There is always something going on. Always something new. Always a new cable, always a new speaker and amp. The industry can not stand still. They depend on new purchases.
    I've honestly lost track and I have tried to stay current over the past 3 decades. About 7 years ago I finally got burned out and actually took a nice, long break from it all with just a pair of headphones. It was very refreshing.
    I was in no hurry to get back into it.
    I reached out to Mike this time around because he carried components I knew would be comfortable with and built a modest but a pleasant and enjoyable system.
    Not chasing lofty goals, not looking for that elusive concept of nirvana. There is no best in this highly subjective hobby with no standards or gauges to measure your success or failure by except your own ears. My ears are happy with what I have now just as they were before. If you enjoy your system for hours at a time, mission accomplished. Great sound does not disappear from your system because a new speaker appeared at the dealer.
    Serge

  44. #44
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    [QUOTE=TheOctopus;317108]There is always something going on. Always something new. Always a new cable, always a new speaker and amp. The industry can not stand still. They depend on new purchases.

    Are you in some sort of way trying to imply the world should stop because your happy?

  45. #45

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    [QUOTE=Kingrex;317118]
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    There is always something going on. Always something new. Always a new cable, always a new speaker and amp. The industry can not stand still. They depend on new purchases.

    Are you in some sort of way trying to imply the world should stop because your happy?
    What? No. I’m saying the world can’t stand still but if one is happy, there is no need trying to chase it.
    Serge

  46. #46
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    [QUOTE=TheOctopus;317119]
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingrex View Post

    What? No. I’m saying the world can’t stand still but if one is happy, there is no need trying to chase it.
    Well put

  47. #47
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditioner?

    Power into your home and subsequently into your system is what you want to keep your eye on and ear to.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Source Analog: Kuzma Stabi R w/4point 11 arm | Kuzma 50 Cartridge
    Source Digital: Aurender N10 | Brinkmann Nyquist MK II
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    Speakers: Wilson Alexias
    Cabling: Nordost Leif, Norse, V2 and Odin
    Power and Isolation: Audio-Ultra Home & Room Power Foundation Performance Package with StromTank S1000 | HRS









  48. #48
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    I have tried regeneration and isolation transformers. The regeneration was a bust, the isolation transformer made some things better and some worse.

    More recently I have taken a more scientific approach using commercial off the shelf power line filters from Corcom and putting them in the power feeds of my gear. I measured the before/after noise using my Audio Precision System 222 up to 500 kHz and a software defined radio from 500 kHz to 10 MHz. Bottom line - they work very well keeping all the trash generated by my digital front end off of the power line. Also I have created a separate ground buss that is connected to earth through a 7 Hy inductor. That has helped as well. I am still experimenting with this.

    I am lucky in that our utilities to the house are on a single transformer I don’t share with the neighbors.
    Tom

    Audio:
    Amati Futura Mains
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    Three MC2301's for L,C,R
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    C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
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  49. #49
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    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    i've been done with any sort of power conditioning since i installed my 'big boy' 10WQ Equi=tech 10kva balanced isolation transformer wall panel system back in 2011.

    Wall Cabinet Systems | Equitech

    i run my whole system on that. i also have 'dirty' power outlets next to my 'clean' power outlets in my room so it's easy to always be able to compare balanced regenerated power with straight through power grid power. so far; 100% of the time it's no contest.

    i do strongly believe that power grids and solutions are not one size fits all. i happen to live in a newer housing community with modern lines and equipment, my room is in a barn, which is a separate building from my home. my home does have it's own transformer. i'm away from the city in the mountains on acreage, away from power grid polluting industry. my power comes from hydro sources and my location is relatively close to the power grid source.

    even with all those advantages (or possibly because of them), my Equi=tech made a significant improvement in lower noise, increased dynamics and increased refinement and ease. and it replaced a dedicated 70 amp line and panel already installed.

    would my Equi=tech be equally effective everywhere? no clue.

    i've had manufacturers bring their gear to my room claiming that their gear would not be helped with my Equi=tech. so we did a quick A/B. not hard to hear the advantage of the Equi=tech. interestingly, one of those events happens to be my local friend Ted Smith.......who designs the dac for PS Audio (Paul McGowan), brought his dac design over a few years back to hear in my system.

    here is Paul, mentioning Ted.

    Listening is scary | PS Audio

  50. #50

    Re: Anyone dumping their power conditiner?

    [QUOTE=Kingrex;317118]
    Quote Originally Posted by TheOctopus View Post
    There is always something going on. Always something new. Always a new cable, always a new speaker and amp. The industry can not stand still. They depend on new purchases.

    Are you in some sort of way trying to imply the world should stop because your happy?
    He never said anything remotely close to your question.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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