Esoteric G-01 clock vs SRS PERF-10

Mike

Mike

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So, Adam (Elberoth) mentioned to me that I should check out the SRS PERF-10 clock if I go for a Esoteric player. I communicated with the company and they confirmed it should indeed be the same as the G-01 since Esoteric buys the Rubidium Clocks from them. I guess I'm having a tough time understanding why there is a near 10 times multiple for the G-01 (a fancy case can't cost that much!)

Anyone have any additional insight/thoughts?


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Turns out the SRS 725 is the one Esoteric uses. Still trying to find out where the extra $22,000 comes from.

Hmmmm....I'm sensing some snake oil.


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Is this one Mike ?

PERF10_FP.jpg


obviously this one LOOKS $22K better. ;)

g01.jpg
 
Mike, the Esoteric is the one for the boys that drive Ferrari's & Lambo's ;) We're here for the noise!

It wouldn't be the first time I've had misgivings about Esoteric.
 
Mike
You already know the answer to this. At least to some extent. Esoteric is paying shipping, duties etc to get the parts to Japan. They have to amortize variable costs and SGA costs across all products. They have to pay to engineer the parts into their products, then cover normal distributer and dealer margins, pay to ship a much heavier product, then warehouse it, warranty it, set up a repair chain, re-coup costs for showing gear all over the world, pay for advertising................
 
For several years i used an Antelope Audio Isochrone OCX clock, fed with a SRS FS725 10MHz Rubidium Frequency Standard on my Soulution 745 SACD/CD player. The effect was quite noticeable, better 3D presentation of the music. I spoke to someone at SRS and they told me the internals of the FS725 are identical to the SRS PERF-10, which has a nicer exterior and an on/off switch. I've never tried the Esoteric clock. But I did notice that the choice of digital interconnect and power cable had a noticeable effect on my clocks. So I assume small differences in wiring and a more vibration proof one box solution would make the Esoteric sound different even if it's using the SRS oscillator. I of course cannot justify the differential in list prices. More recently I've switched to the Grimm Audio CC1. It sounds better than the OCX - SRS combo. I highly recommend it.
 
DavidNY said:
For several years i used an Antelope Audio Isochrone OCX clock, fed with a SRS FS725 10MHz Rubidium Frequency Standard on my Soulution 745 SACD/CD player. The effect was quite noticeable, better 3D presentation of the music. I spoke to someone at SRS and they told me the internals of the FS725 are identical to the SRS PERF-10, which has a nicer exterior and an on/off switch. I've never tried the Esoteric clock. But I did notice that the choice of digital interconnect and power cable had a noticeable effect on my clocks. So I assume small differences in wiring and a more vibration proof one box solution would make the Esoteric sound different even if it's using the SRS oscillator. I of course cannot justify the differential in list prices. More recently I've switched to the Grimm Audio CC1. It sounds better than the OCX - SRS combo. I highly recommend it.[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.701961)]
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Click to expand...

Hi David,

Thanks for your informative post. I guess my question is does the SRS-PERF-10 = Esoteric G-01 or is there another piece to the puzzle? What I mean is when I read the specs for G-01 it generates numerous frequencies for audiophile use (i.e. 44.1, 88.2, 96.0, 176.4, 192.0 kHz, etc.). The SRS-PERF-10 mentions nothing of generating these frequencies in its specs. So does the SRS-PERF-10 just give you the 10MHz frequency standard with another oscillator (component) required to give you all of the various audiophile frequencies I mentioned above?

Thanks,
Ken
 
Ken
The SRS PERF-10 and FS725 only generate a 10MHz signal.
You also need an external clock, such as the Antelope OCX, that generates a 44.1KHz (and other useful) frequencies. The OCX has a BNC input that accepts a 10MHz signal that further regulates the OCX' crystal oscillator
Note that Antelope also makes a Rubidium clock that lists for about $10K.
I also suggest you check the Grimm Audio website where they have an interesting paper on clock accuracy (long term), versus stability (short term, low jitter). As usual a simple statistic like MHz can be totally misleading.
 
So the question remains: is the FS725 the same as the G-01? SRS swears it is.

Those other frequencies are for sonic outputs and not 50ohm 10mhz clocks.
 
Have you seen the web site hifishock dot org?
Lots of pictures of the internals of audio gear including various Esoteric clocks including the G-01
 
1. The G-01 is sold through traditional, audiophile shops (read: much high markup vs pro market)
2. The nice box can account for as much as 50% of BOM on most hi-end gear.
3. The G-01 has a better, linear PSU. For the SRS to sound its best, you have to buy quality 12V linear PSU (like the HD Plex one for example) .
4. The G-01 has a PLL build it, which means it can generate 44.1/48kHz family freq needed for most DACs with Wclk input. The SRS is plain vanilla 50MHz output.

BTW - the FS725 has an output impdance of 50Ohm, vs 75Ohm for the Perf-10 (required by most DACs). The Perf-10 is the one to buy.
 
I placed an order with SRS for a PERF-10 for K-01X. They quote five weeks lead time.

After reading the rather sparsely written K-01X and G-01 manuals, I conclude that there is a difference in functionality between the PERF-10 and the G-01 in this application. When an external 10Mhz clock source is established, the K-01X's on-board 22.5792Mhz Master Clock synchronizes directly to the external rubidium generator. On the other hand, when a 22.5792Mhz clock link is established, the G-01's 10Mhz rubidium core synchronizes the G-01's own integral 22.5792 master clock, which in turn replaces the K-01X's integral 22.5792 master clock.

There may be pros and cons to either approach. Or perhaps Esoteric is trying to position the G-01's 22.5792Mhz link speed as a proprietary capability in order to distinguish it from third-party rubidium clocks operating at 10Mhz. Or maybe the G-01's 22.5792 internal clock has a better power supply than the one in the K-01X.

In any case the ball is in motion. I'll try the PERF-10 powered by its integrated switching PS, then by a large 12V filtered SLA battery, and finally by a Paul Hynes linear PS that I've had on backorder for months.
 
Congrats David. Looking forward to your impressions.


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Mike said:
Congrats David. Looking forward to your impressions.


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Click to expand...

Mike,

I recently read a post on the G-01 where someone switched from the 10 MHz to the 22 MHz master clock output and got a nice improvement in performance on the K-01X. However, folks were using the 10 MHz master clock output for a long time with their K-01's and getting a significant improvement over no external clock. So I think adding the SRS PERF-10 could result in some really nice improvement for the K-01/K-01X on the 10 MHz setting for a very reasonable price. I now think you can hook up the SRS PERF-10 directly to the K-01/K-01X with a BNC cable and just play music. Clock frequencies will come from K-01/K-01X's internal clock, based on the master clock's output.

Ken
 
Alpinist said:
Mike,

I recently read a post on the G-01 where someone switched from the 10 MHz to the 22 MHz master clock output and got a nice improvement in performance on the K-01X. However, folks were using the 10 MHz master clock output for a long time with their K-01's and getting a significant improvement over no external clock. So I think adding the SRS PERF-10 could result in some really nice improvement for the K-01/K-01X on the 10 MHz setting for a very reasonable price. I now think you can hook up the SRS PERF-10 directly to the K-01/K-01X with a BNC cable and just play music. Clock frequencies will come from K-01/K-01X's internal clock, based on the master clock's output.

Ken
Click to expand...

Ken, An intriguing data point from the G-01 manual is that its 10Mhz output is through a 50 ohm BNC-- as compared to 75 ohm BNC for its other frequencies. If true, this mismatch with the 75 ohm BNC on the K-01X at 10Mhz might account for improved sound of the 22Mhz link through the G-01's 75 ohm BNC. At least the PERF-10 presents a 75 ohm match. The difference may be non-trivial. I found scope measurements for a Lucent 10Mhz rubidium clock that showed significant deterioration of the waveform when mismatched between 50 ohm and 75 ohms terminations. So perhaps the G-01/2 sounded better at 22Mhz owing to matching 75 ohm impedances.
 
David Garretson said:
Ken, An intriguing data point from the G-01 manual is that its 10Mhz output is through a 50 ohm BNC-- as compared to 75 ohm BNC for its other frequencies. If true, this mismatch with the 75 ohm BNC on the K-01X at 10Mhz might account for improved sound of the 22Mhz link through the G-01's 75 ohm BNC. At least the PERF-10 presents a 75 ohm match. The difference may be non-trivial. I found scope measurements for a Lucent 10Mhz rubidium clock that showed significant deterioration of the waveform when mismatched between 50 ohm and 75 ohms terminations. So perhaps the G-01/2 sounded better at 22Mhz owing to matching 75 ohm impedances.
Click to expand...

That's very interesting, David, thanks for pointing it out. I'll be interested to hear how much improvement you gain from the SRS PERF-10 with your K-01X. If it's anywhere close to the G-01, it will be well worth it at that price point.

Best of luck,
Ken
 
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