Ethernet switch box

nicoff said:
Thank you! That is what I thought: that the devices provided by the ISP are a modem and a switch.

So my question is still: how can can you better performance using “their modem” and your “own router” (or switch) ?

Again looking for technical (i.e., non subjective) proof. Thanks!
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The modem always has a single output if it is only a modem (not a one size fits all dual function unit). The modem hooks to the router. Its name tells all, it routes the signal and contains a table of all attached gear down the line, their Mac address, etc. A switch takes a single Ethernet input and splits it up to several Ethernet ports. Four, eight ports; we use multiple 48 port switches at work, but only one router.

Many homes use higher end routers have four or more outputs. In my network box in our home we have the Charter modem that feeds into our Asus router. I had the house pre-wired with cables going to several rooms. I attach the Ethernet cables going to the rooms that I want active to the router.

I have a small switch in our office which feeds our printers, the solar panel connector to feed back to Tesla the status of our panels, and my main computer. There is only one wired network connection in the room (coming off the router). This Ethernet cable hooks into the switch and the other wired devices in the room attach to this switch.

I also have another switch in our bedroom. Again one Ethernet from the router and a TV, NAS, etc., attached to that switch.

The router tracks all 30 some odd devices attached to the network, both wired and wireless. It also contains the network firewall and security settings. It allows all of these devices to be seen across the network. This is how the backup NAS can be in the bedroom (hey, there was a good location for it there) but still be accessible from anywhere in the house. The router does all the heavy lifting, so to speak. Yea, having a top quality after market router is very important to a well performing network.

Anyway, sorry for being so long winded, I just wanted to give the detailed layout for a well fleshed out home network setup.
 
I’ve played and played, until it landed nicely, hard to beat.

Modem > Router > AQVox SE > EtherREGEN > Gigafoil V4 > Server > DAC

AQVox SE > Netgear > CAT5/Home

LPS to Modem and Switches

AudioQuest Diamonds from
Start to finish

Nordost QKore passive grounding to switches

All on Dedicated circuit

All isolated on Adona platform

Best setup to date in my home, I’m not sure why the AQVox feeding etherREGEN created the best setup yet, but it did and not subtle. Switches are behind power supply, this is located in my gym adjacent to the music room.

46de3cbffd905b3874c76bbda39f6420.jpg



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UltraFast69...you are using your ER before your Gigafoil V4 and then taking that to your server..?..That combo sounded better than the ER into the server ..?
 
I would like to see a measurement methodology developed to determine if these devices actually work.

Let me see if I have the technical argument correct. High oscillator phase noise in consumer internet switches impresses a ground current/voltage in the DAC’s digital input circuitry. This ground voltage then changes the point at which the digital input circuit in the DAC determines if the incoming data is a 1 or 0. This maninfests itself as a timing error aka jitter, which in turn shows up in the DAC output as temporal ‘spreading’ that creates distortion sidebands in the DAC’s analog output.

Noise from smps and lps impressed on the DAC ground would also have the same effect.

So this should be measurable by looking at the jitter spectra of the DAC’s analog output.

No voodoo secret methodology needed. Just good measurement system design.

The big variable here is how the DAC handles this ground noise induced jitter.
 
calloway said:
UltraFast69...you are using your ER before your Gigafoil V4 and then taking that to your server..?..That combo sounded better than the ER into the server ..?
Click to expand...

Yes. I tried several configurations and that was the best one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
nicoff said:
Guys, my question is still: how can can you better performance using your ISP provider modem/router and your own router and/or switch?
I am looking for technical data not subjective (“I can hear it”) stuff.
Thanks.
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You are never going to get a straight answer to your question because no one here on this forum can "prove" that somehow adding a switch which wasn't necessary in the first place can somehow make your digital rig sound better. In order to do that, you would need to have some serious test gear and know how to use it. Then you would have to prove that your measurements that implied something needed fixing through an audiophile switch are valid.

In summary, we are reduced to people's feelings of what they heard when they introduced digital dingleberries into their digital rig.
 
mep said:
You are never going to get a straight answer to your question because no one here on this forum can "prove" that somehow adding a switch which wasn't necessary in the first place can somehow make your digital rig sound better. In order to do that, you would need to have some serious test gear and know how to use it. Then you would have to prove that your measurements that implied something needed fixing through an audiophile switch are valid.

In summary, we are reduced to people's feelings of what they heard when they introduced digital dingleberries into their digital rig.
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Is this fundamentally different from attention to AC power? There we use better outlets, power conditioners or regenerators, different cables, etc, mostly on the basis of subjective impressions or objective measurements with limited or no data on their relationship to the sound.

I have no personal experience since my streaming is currently limited to free Spotify on my phone, and that only to sample new music. I do use "generic" Ethernet to my network for control purposes and notice absolutely no difference whether or not it is connected.
 
mep said:
You are never going to get a straight answer to your question because no one here on this forum can "prove" that somehow adding a switch which wasn't necessary in the first place can somehow make your digital rig sound better. In order to do that, you would need to have some serious test gear and know how to use it. Then you would have to prove that your measurements that implied something needed fixing through an audiophile switch are valid.

In summary, we are reduced to people's feelings of what they heard when they introduced digital dingleberries into their digital rig.
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You'll get a straight answer from John Swenson.

Reduction of jitter (including threshold jitter) and timing errors from phase noise as well as ground plane noise is audible. The benefits of adding a better swtich are just as audible as adding a better clock, and I don't see folks stating that adding a better clock brings doesn't bring an audible improvement. I'm sure some folks here have those nice Cybershaft and Esoteric clocks.

John Swenson has the test equipment. He built it, so he knows how to use it. He used to design Ethernet chips, PHYs, flip-flops, switch components, power supplies for the better part of 40 years at LSI, Inc, Broadcom, Cisco. It's accurate to say he know more about this any of us.
 
W9TR said:
I would like to see a measurement methodology developed to determine if these devices actually work.

Let me see if I have the technical argument correct. High oscillator phase noise in consumer internet switches impresses a ground current/voltage in the DAC’s digital input circuitry. This ground voltage then changes the point at which the digital input circuit in the DAC determines if the incoming data is a 1 or 0. This maninfests itself as a timing error aka jitter, which in turn shows up in the DAC output as temporal ‘spreading’ that creates distortion sidebands in the DAC’s analog output.

Noise from smps and lps impressed on the DAC ground would also have the same effect.

So this should be measurable by looking at the jitter spectra of the DAC’s analog output.

No voodoo secret methodology needed. Just good measurement system design.

The big variable here is how the DAC handles this ground noise induced jitter.
Click to expand...

You have it mostly correct, Tom, but not entirely.

Read this white paper: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0660/6121/files/UpTone-J.Swenson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386
 
rbbert said:
Is this fundamentally different from attention to AC power? There we use better outlets, power conditioners or regenerators, different cables, etc, mostly on the basis of subjective impressions or objective measurements with limited or no data on their relationship to the sound.
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Well, yes, partly. It is partly different from attention to AC power, but certain parts are similar (e.g. ground plane noise). Power cords don't impact timing the nanosecond domain (which are quite audible). It's fairly complicated, read John Swenson's white paper linked here (twice).

rbbert said:
I have no personal experience since my streaming is currently limited to free Spotify on my phone, and that only to sample new music. I do use "generic" Ethernet to my network for control purposes and notice absolutely no difference whether or not it is connected.
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You don't notice a difference because all consumer Ethernet switches are crap for digital streaming audio applications.

At a fundamental transfer function level, it's no different than using generic black power cords(and the garbage they bring) for powering components. This "discussion" is virtually no different than the one folks were having 15 years ago that power cords don't matter. And, we know they do.

It's real easy: order an EtherREGEN and put it in. If you don't think it brings an audible improvement that is worth $640, for ~eight bucks you can return it via USPS Priority mail for a full, no-questions asked refund. 99.97% of UpTone's customers (over 2000 have been sold to date) have found it brings an improvement worth the $640 price.
 
You missed my points although you did post useful information.

I was referring to the supposed effects of Ethernet switches/cables/power supplies etc that are out of the signal chain for audio. My comment was that I don’t notice any change in the sound of my system if the DAC is connected to an Ethernet cable or not connected (for control functions only); if the crappy router/switch/cable/PS were so bad in this setting I should certainly hear an improvement after disconnecting it?

My comment about AC power referred more to the (relative) lack of correlation between measurement and sound. I’m sure both Colin Gabriel and John Swenson have lots of data and opinions about this, but AFAIK none of it really rises to the level of evidence (yet).

FWIW, white papers are not scientific (or other) evidence. Although I believe changes in the AC power chain inside the home are audible, it’s a huge stretch to say we “know this”.
 
If power cords make such a big difference other than being of proper gauge and well shielded (they don't carry audio signals), should a specific power cord be used in all audio review magazine measurements? How or why would anyone trust a "measurement" of an amplifier, a DAC or any other component that is routinely measured as part of a review if a stock power cord was used. What if a power cord that is not in my system was used? Can I still trust the measurements? Asking for a friend... :D
 
TheOctopus said:
If power cords make such a big difference other than being of proper gauge and well shielded (they don't carry audio signals), should a specific power cord be used in all audio review magazine measurements? How or why would anyone trust a "measurement" of an amplifier, a DAC or any other component that is routinely measured as part of a review if a stock power cord was used. What if a power cord that is not in my system was used? Can I still trust the measurements? Asking for a friend... :D
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And then you have the identifier that always seems to come back, which power cord, which cable this or that and did you try the one that cost 3 or 4 times more and/or how do you know the measurements can be trusted and and on what equipment was it measured on etc.. etc.. etc.. a never ending circle of doubt when it comes to all things audio. . :evil:
 
CPP said:
And then you have the identifier that always seems to come back, which power cord, which cable this or that and did you try the one that cost 3 or 4 times more and/or how do you know the measurements can be trusted and and on what equipment was it measured on etc.. etc.. etc.. a never ending circle of doubt when it comes to all things audio. . :evil:
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The precision test instruments capable of measuring to -120dB of noise floor. Should they have upgraded power cords too? Because we could be living in a universe where everything is completely off and we will never reach Mars if we are measuring everything with stock power cords... Oh the horror!
Are Elon Musk and NASA even aware of the untapped potential here?
 
Puma Cat said:
.....

It's real easy: order an EtherREGEN and put it in. If you don't think it brings an audible improvement that is worth $640, for ~eight bucks you can return it via USPS Priority mail for a full, no-questions asked refund. 99.97% of UpTone's customers (over 2000 have been sold to date) have found it brings an improvement worth the $640 price.
Click to expand...

Doing some research about this product, I found this:

UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Switch Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

I think I will save my money...
 
TheOctopus said:
The precision test instruments capable of measuring to -120dB of noise floor. Should they have upgraded power cords too? Because we could be living in a universe where everything is completely off and we will never reach Mars if we are measuring everything with stock power cords... Oh the horror!
Are Elon Musk and NASA even aware of the untapped potential here?
Click to expand...

OH yes, all bases have to be covered for a measurement to be of worth :D and then is the power into the building even verified, and then what about the power companies, the building grounds, and has all the equipment been synced to the World Clock, Oh the horror is right !

Me, man I just listen to the music. Thank God all of those years at Bells Labs kept me sane.
 
CPP said:
OH yes, all bases have to be covered for a measurement to be of worth :D and then is the power into the building even verified, and then what about the power companies, the building grounds, and has all the equipment been synced to the World Clock, Oh the horror is right !

Me, man I just listen to the music. Thank God all of those years at Bells Labs kept me sane.
Click to expand...
Same here. I just enjoy music. The question of what power cord or interconnect I should get next is simply a non issue for me these days. I am not using a lamp cord or a zip cord by any means but chasing the latest and the greatest just doesn't turn me on like it used to... Having an electronics background myself, it is also enough to know what a power supply does as well as what shielding does to a power cord and how it all ties in with UL listing and fire safety... etc... Let's just say I'd rather hear what John Coltrane was trying to say through his sax than what the latest and greatest power cord of the month is.
 
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